Everybody
I was reading Syuzhak FS Unity for sale post and he kept going on and on about his Rebel and the Big Kahoona went on about its the most popular kite
at SOBX. So I was down at Emerald Isle checking out what happened after Irene and as I walked out on the beach there was a Rebel and a Zombie working
in some nice light SW wind. The Rebel was so smooth without any flutter such a beautiful sight!! The Zombie was good but it seemed to have a little
more flutter and less stable. All this could be pilot error but they seemed matched in ability. I am concerned about 5 lines but is it worth it when
you get smooth responsive power. Do the LF hifi Comp C kites feel similar? Any comments!!
L43patrick - 30-10-2011 at 03:31 PM
I have similar questions. I have flown the rebel and rather liked it but worry about the 5th line set up. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of a 5th
line?AD72 - 30-10-2011 at 04:16 PM
5th line is an easy setup and well worth the added safety to completely depower the kite. If you would rather have 4 lines with the option of a 5th,
the Fuse is the answer. It is designed to be just like the Rebel but with a bridle. I have taken the 7 out in 30mph and it was super stable, not
twitchy in the slightest.
Fuse came out in 2010 and was basically unchanged in 2011. The only year to stay away from with the Rebel is the 09. They made a change with the
struts that did not work well and it needed to be inflated to the extreme.AD72 - 30-10-2011 at 04:22 PM
There is a video demonstration of the benefits of the fifth line with a babe flying on the North site.AD72 - 31-10-2011 at 11:04 PM
Here is a video fro 08 regarding the safety of a 5th line. Front 4 line safety with the front lines has improved since then but it does show how bad
back line safety is. Kamikuza - 31-10-2011 at 11:53 PM
Bigkahuna is a wave rider though and has different demands for his kites ...
5th line is an option if you don't want a "proper" bridle ... any SLE with a decent bridle should depower just as well - and there's simply no need to
depower to a single front line ... is there?
Note that with a 5th line you've got a different way of recovering and relaunching the kite ... can be a bonus in light winds though.
IMHO it's all about the pose factor - C-kites have no bridle and experts ride C-kites ... ergo, if my kite has no bridle then I'm an expert. So
manufacturers work out how to sell a kite that has all the depower and yet still looks more "professional" than a full on bow kite
Back-line safety - total dinosaur :puzzled: I guess North is anti-bow kite or something which is why they're comparing it to that ... instead c.f.
Cabrinha IDS system (both front lines) which is similar to a lot of other systems in actual use today.
Also note that the 4line was down and depowered sooner than the 5th line talk
about marketing b.s.!
I'm a huge fan of the North bar, nice design and a good looking bit o' kit and even the kites I like, despite Ken Winner/PMU but ... damn, whose
3-year-old did they let loose on the colour schemes :o
Oh and ...
My personal opinion - you (probably) don't need the added "complexity" of a 5th line system.sparkin_larkin - 1-11-2011 at 06:11 AM
I was not really thinking about the safety (thanks for the vid ) as much as the sky hook stability ;> and is it the 5th line addition that makes
this kite look so buttery smooth. There are 5 line kites out there that use the 5th line for safety only..not so much for flight. I do not think the
Rebel will fly on 4 lines? If it does fly I think it suffers without the 5th line. I remember Slingshot had something called granade on its 5th line
which kept the line from cutting the kite in half? Does anyone remember this and how did it work?
Just picking some brain fruit for ideas on future kites..............and Kami I wont even go there:0
LKamikuza - 1-11-2011 at 06:18 AM
Yes, some have a loaded 5th line ... can't remember about North. That makes it (IMHO) an SLE without the benefits
I like my Cabs ragden - 1-11-2011 at 06:49 AM
I like the North Rebel kites. A lot. If I wasnt going to fly flysurfer for kiteboarding, I would be flying Rebels. Sure, their color schemes hurt the
eyes, but at least it is a colorful kite that you can easily pick out of the lineup.
The 5th line does give the center of the kite tension that helps it hold its form. This allows the kite to fly much smoother. There is no fluttering
of the center of the kite, because of that tension. I have flown the 7m in 30-40 mph winds and did not have a problem with it. I actually really
enjoyed it (aside from just how doggone fast it turns). I have tried a 10m in lower winds and also enjoyed that.
Any line that wraps around a kite is going to do significant damage, especially if it gets tension. This is something that can happen. A fifth line is
not immune to that. The hope is that you can prevent that from happening with your kite flying skills. If something does go wrong, release it onto the
safety to remove the tension from the lines...
With most LEIs these days, it is really about personal preference. So many of them fly very similiarly. You really need to get out there and try them
and find what works best for you.bigkahuna - 1-11-2011 at 06:54 AM
Who is this Big Kahoona guy? :D
My issue with 5th line kites is that you can't flag them out if you dump them in the surf. Not that I do that much (knock on wood) but when I do I
don't want that 5th line to hold the LE to the brunt of a breaking wave. Otherwise, my only other issue with them is that I just don't like having
that many lines, too much to fuss with. But I can see why a lot of people swear by them, especially if you're doing tricks and are constantly dumping
the kite in the water. Personally, I'd rather have a bridle than a 5th line.
"Buttery smooth" flying has more to do with how they cut the kite's design. Depending on the designer, they may add battens to the trailing edge to
limit flutter. If the kite jellyfishes or flutters, it's either not been pumped up properly or just wasn't designed right.
So you were at EI, eh? I'm pretty sure I know who you saw out there. I was probably at the other end of the island.sparkin_larkin - 1-11-2011 at 09:00 AM
Yea I am a creative spellar speller spealler and proud of it Bigkahuna
I was close to the major public access at EI. We have a condo at Emerald Cove its the renovated old hotel on the soundside. I live near Raleigh and go
down when I can. I saw someone this summer at the point with Best kites and wondered if that was you. I have a quiver of Slingshot Keys Hope to see
you sometime!
LPHREERIDER - 1-11-2011 at 09:44 AM
the 5th is not really an "active line" in flight, more of a "limiter" like in the HIFI which is the a c-kite with four line depower. great
explanation on the youtube . i 'll find the link later
hadlow pro has similar.
may analogy of a fifth line is " is an extension of your hand on the leading edge" and thats about it. on the water its easier relaunch for sure and
safety. and for an arc rider i consider it redundant and in the way.
flutter is TE design as BK said and canopy tension elements. nicely "steering" kites in moderate winds are butter smooth until you take them out of
range THEN they rattle esp. on hard redirect depowered turns. like a big car for cruising ....throw a hard turn in there the front end shakes as the
backend slides out .
the more the design favors c-kite design the more the canopy is ACTIVELY producing power. depower kites have MORE material , MORE drag = flutter.
better designs out for sure like the RPM by SS really clipped down to nothing. when the DP kite is depowered ther alot of kite canopy doing nothing
bu flapping! theres a pilot choice in there as well.
a big depowered DP kite with aggressive handling is gonna rattle, in timid hands it will not.
a better fitted depower kite trim FULL on is not gonna rattle much because MORE of the canopy is active producing power with less total drag .
hope you can get some insight with that explaination.bigkahuna - 1-11-2011 at 10:02 AM
@Sparkin - I don't go down to EI much. I should though, the wind and waves are actually better down there and it's only a half an hour drive. Guess
I've gotten lazy being this close to the beach at this end. I almost never kite in the sound, but across from your condo is a nice spot that only a
couple folks know about. Can only get there by boat so if you are boat-less you are out of luck. We're a pretty small kiting community here. When
you name off kites I know exactly who you are talking about. If you see a Best kite in the waves at the other end of the island, chances are it's me.Kamikuza - 1-11-2011 at 05:06 PM
Crossbow has 7 struts to keep it all tight - no flutter ... ever Vector has 3
struts - and flutters all the time.
Rebels use TE battens ... each to their own.AD72 - 1-11-2011 at 08:48 PM
I tried a Convert and the rubberized bar was weird. I would like to try a Crossbow though. I think the center strut is key.Kamikuza - 1-11-2011 at 11:25 PM
The bar is great, you'll get used to it
's funny cos I want to try a kite WITHOUT a center strut 7 is a bit excessive
though - I got to ride the Crossbow 13 LW (5 struts) and I thought that was as good as my 13 ...bigkahuna - 2-11-2011 at 05:27 AM
The guy who reps Cab's here ripped the end off his big black dog bone (cab bar) the other day in the surf. He got hammered by a breaking wave and
dumped the kite. A line got wrapped around the rubber bar end and then ripped it off. I've flown probably a dozen different model Cabrinha's over
the years, and to be honest I never liked a single one. I've also never liked any of their bars. But different horses for different courses...
All my Bularoos have 5 struts and the bigger ones have trailing and leading edge battens. Even still, if I fly it across the window fast the TE will
flutter a bit and if I send it across real fast with no tension on the bar it will sometimes stall and invert. That's happened to me twice in 5 years
but I've gotten used to how they fly and performance is otherwise stellar.
I flew an older model Rebel a couple years ago and as I recall it felt a lot like my Bularoo, meaning I liked it a lot. North apparently makes a 4
line model of the same kite so that might be worth investigating.Kamikuza - 2-11-2011 at 06:43 AM
I have a very low opinion of Best kites so I'll just keep my thoughts to myself :bigok:bigkahuna - 2-11-2011 at 09:07 AM
@Kami - Yeah, I heard all the bad reports before I flew my first Bularoo 13. I bought it to replace a Naish I bought for my wife but that sucker
wouldn't fly worth a carp. Got the Bularoo 13 and she loved it. When we moved here I gave it a go one windy day that was too much for my Venom 19
and it was love at first sight. I ended up buying an entire quiver of them directly from Best during an end of season clearance sale. I don't think
I paid more than $500 for any of the kites. One of the best deals I've ever had. I've not flown any other Bests besides my own quiver so I couldn't
compare them to any of the other models. Gotta say I'm less than impressed with Best's marketing and how their crew conducts themselves at the beach,
but the kites I have are perfect for the type of kiting I do and my level of skills.sparkin_larkin - 3-11-2011 at 05:55 AM
