Power Kite Forum

scared.....

badinfluence - 26-9-2011 at 07:49 AM

heres the deal,, i was out a few months back and was flying my 3.0 and ended up getting lifted pretty good and came down and sprained my ankle real bad. Since then i have healed up for the most part but everytime i get the powerkite quiver out again i absolutly have no confidence and feel just out of wack. Only thing i can seem to fly without a big issue is my 2.0 and that wont power a buggy unless it is really windy. Tried to fly my 5.0 yesterday and was scared to death. winds were only about 5-8 mph but it seemed dangerous. Can anyone share any advice on how to build confidence level up and gain some expierence so i feel better about this whole thing. Getting ready to take the easy way out and sell the buggy and all whole quiver. Cant seem to want to do anything without the kite killers on and they get so tangled so easily and then it just gets frustrating to fly anymore. Any suggestions????

ragden - 26-9-2011 at 07:54 AM

...
Conquer your fears. Just get out there and fly. Start small, work your way up. Come to the Wildwood Buggy Bash, and fly with other folks. Having a bunch of guys apply peer pressure will definitely help you get over your fears and go for it...

Aside from that, keep flying the smaller kites in lower winds until you feel comfortable with them again. If you "work" the kite hard enough, you might get some movement out of it...
;)

flyjump - 26-9-2011 at 08:04 AM

first fly static until you get your confidence back

ok this is going to sound crazy, but it is much safer to use a larger depower kite while riding. if you get lofted the kite will be big enough to float you down. you also don't have to use them in high winds like you would a small 2m kite. those small kites love to flick you into the air and then drop you onto your joints hard.

also most depower kites are closed foil designs these days. this helps keep the kite from collapsing on you if you do get lifted into the air. I know a lot of guys will get mad when i tell riders to use larger depower kites vs those small foil kites. most of the way those small kites get lift is through their incredibly fast speed. they shoot across the window lifting you into the air and then drop when it hits the edge of the window.

larger kites are much slower through the air, so you get your lift through the kite shape/design vs out right kite speed. sine the shape of the wind may induce lift, all you have to do is park the kite above your head and enjoy the float down. I feel much safer on a larger kite when the wind is bumping instead of the small wicked fast kites

this may seem like bad advice, but you hear more and more stories of guys getting hurt on those small wippy kites

I hope this steers you in the right direction

wheresthewind? - 26-9-2011 at 08:08 AM

like ragden said, just alot of practice...... a cautious mindset is good,but excessive fear isnt because you need to have a clear idea of what to do if and when something adverse happens...... panic can get a person hurt badly--just take your time and gradually push the envelope and come to wildwood, there are tons of kiters there, all more than willing to lend a hand.......

airin - 26-9-2011 at 08:42 AM

Definitely stick to flying underpowered for a while, you'll be moving slowly but have more time to react and less force to control if things go wrong.

PHREERIDER - 26-9-2011 at 08:48 AM

it will help to practice to control.

letting go of the kite! in all positions and speed in the window, all sizes. just drop it.

stay relaxed, breathe through nose slowly and deliberately when tense moments arrive .

relax grip, shoulders relaxed, head back , eyes to horizon and terrain, not the kite .

grip strength, not squeezing , like "hooks" using fingers .. this allows for it to just slip away when the gust hits. practice this finger grip balance. like a pull-up hang and just let go. like rock climbing.

focus on what your fingers are telling you. talk to someone while you're flying/ walk up wind and talk, your reflexes will sharpen as your brain gets out of the way.

a tether on the brakes would be nice keeps things tidy and not so messy.

as things ramp up in confidence, hook in (if your on that track) walk up wind idle kite at the edge just above ground. keep it happy tight lines , if it luffs back into the window can always fly into the ground, let go, or run it in.

know the weather! if its lumpy expect a bumpy ride .

get to the fun parts! then stop and celebrate. rinse and repeat

DAKITEZ - 26-9-2011 at 09:03 AM

what surface are you riding on? If grass ... maybe try something different like hard pack sand or dirt field. This will allow you to roll much easier. So you will be able to ride under powered but still get moving good in the buggy.

Tibi - 26-9-2011 at 09:41 AM

For me it worked trying to do some scudding at the beach and also on the sandy area of a baseball field. Once I learned how to disipate the kite's power I was more confident in my ability to fly. And scudding is also fun!!!

Where in PA are you?

greasehopper - 26-9-2011 at 09:58 AM

I'm feelin' ya. I bounced on my melon a few week back and was still hawky and overly cautious when I got to Harper for FBBT... It takes time to build your confidence back.

There's no graceful way to crash ( unless your name is CoolBreeze ) but there are a hundred things you can do to ease the impact and most of them have to do with controlling the flight speed and position of the kite inspite of your physical disorientation. Corey Lama calls it Kite Chi, I call it survival skills, I'm told eventually it will become second nature if you really work at it long enough. In this game, Experience is the only teacher and like nocando says, expreience is something you get just after you need it.

I'm horrible with internal gyroscope malfunctions and I don't heal as quick as I once did so my Chi is weak as rice paper. FEAR has everything to do with that.

Just a suggestion... Take it or leave it.
Gear up like you're about to tackle a cyclone, sit down on the deck and get busy !!! Don't intentionally launch yourself into orbit but don't be afraid to scud on your belly a bit until you figure out how to dump power when you need to. Let yourself get towed around and out of position, just stay on the deck. Use your safety A Lot !!!

If your ankle is still giving you trouble, suit it up as well.
http://www.ultraankle.com/zoom-ankle-brace

I run these on both my sticks when I play.

snowspider - 26-9-2011 at 10:25 AM

If you get bit by a dog basic instinct is going to keep you from going near that dog again and maybe all dogs. Try to identify and isolate what you might have done wrong and what you would do differently the next time.
Keep flying to rebuild your confidence.
There is something to be said for flying bigger vs smaller. With a bigger kite you can do more with less wind , you can jump and float more easily , if you get pulled out of controll it is less violent and at a slower speed. Try to do those same things with a smaller kite in higher wind and bad things happen more quickly with greater force.
As always its a balance of picking the right kite for what you are doing , the wind conditions , and your abilities. Smooth wind makes it all look easy , gusty wind is more demanding and unpredictable.

badinfluence - 26-9-2011 at 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER


letting go of the kite! in all positions and speed in the
a tether on the brakes would be nice keeps things tidy and not so messy.




what is a tether??? anything to help the constant tangle of the kite killer system would be great!!

badinfluence - 26-9-2011 at 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tib
Where in PA are you?



near pittsburgh....

badinfluence - 26-9-2011 at 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DAKITEZ
what surface are you riding on?



mostly grass field....

DAKITEZ - 26-9-2011 at 10:34 AM

try a harder surface. You will be amazed at the difference. Make sure you size down on your kite than you would normally on grass. Get your smallest kite and try. This will get you moving again, regain confidence, and give you joy to rmind you why you started this in the first place :thumbup:

badinfluence - 26-9-2011 at 10:39 AM

Thanks for the great advice! Please keep it coming. I mostly ride alone and that for starters is a bit challenging in itself in case something goes real wrong. Had a heck of a time wrapping up all of the gear when I sprained my ankle with no one around. Also I have no other riders to learn from which makes everything that much harder.

wheresthewind? - 26-9-2011 at 11:16 AM

u should really try to make it to wildwood next month--there are plenty of people that can help you and you'll have a great time as well!

PHREERIDER - 26-9-2011 at 11:27 AM

tether= leash

on one brake line or both, up the line the length of the kite for flagging.

kite killers are a type of leashing system.
handles will be messy most ways you try it.

its gonna wreck the lines into a mess but a nice trade for sparing body parts any day.

badinfluence - 26-9-2011 at 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by wheresthewind?
u should really try to make it to wildwood next month--there are plenty of people that can help you and you'll have a great time as well!


i will be there this weekend for AKA. Do you think there will be anyone there buggying or too crowded?

wheresthewind? - 26-9-2011 at 12:19 PM

maybe one of the locals will answer your question--i really dont know......

awindofchange - 26-9-2011 at 12:26 PM

The best thing to do is to get some more gear! :) No not kites, you got plenty of those, I am talking about some body armor, heavy duty knee pads, elbow pads, gloves, shin guards, wrist guards, high top ankle support shoes and a serious helmet. Getting padded up is not only the smartest thing to do but will let you relax a little knowing that if the @#$% does hit the fan, You're not going to be hobbling away in pain. MX racers don't go practicing 50' jumps without wearing their gear! Bicycle BMX riders don't hit the half pipe in shorts and a t-shirt.... Extreme sports require a little more protection - power kiting can very much be classed as an extreme sport, the protection to your body should be no different.

Had you had all of this gear before, chances of your ankle getting sprained would have been minimized and instead of being a little scared now (which is actually a good thing), you would be pushing the limits even more.

Once you know that you can take a few tumbles without heading to the hospital, it is easier to push those limits and take those tumbles.

shehatesmyhobbies - 26-9-2011 at 02:22 PM

+1 for Kent's mention of buying safety gear! anything that will help cut down on lumps is a good idea.

Next get some balance. When you fly static, is one foot out in front as to help keep your weight back, and limit the amount of forward pull. Balance is the hardest part to master. I think of it as making my body part of the equation. I use my entire body when I fly static. or buggy! I can now fly most of my kites without having to look at them while in the buggy ( except to make sure I am not going to hit any obstacles) I can tell just by pressure in my fingers, hands and arms just about where my kite is at all times. This comes with many hours of practice.

Don't fly the kite directly in the Power Zone, keep it out on the edges and a little higher. Then ease your way back in to the Power Zone once you feel a little more comfortable. Then keep moving it further down, as much as you can handle.

Next when you are in the buggy, make sure you are using your body to help keep yourself in the seat. Don't lean over the side rails, especially on the kite side. Lean back use your feet to push into the foot pegs and dig in!

Once you have practiced static flying and feel more comfortable, the rest will start to make sense and start coming more natural.

Not saying that it is going to avoid all catastrophic moments, but you can definitely cut down on the number of them.

You may see someone buggy out on the beach at AKA, doubtful though, and they would more than likely be pretty south of the boardwalk!

WELDNGOD - 26-9-2011 at 02:52 PM

let's look at this...... You got lofted by a 3.0 beamer..... That tells me you were flying in some Nukin winds. Beamers are not lifty kites. You were probably flying in conditions you don't yet have the skillset for.. Just keep flying the little ones until you get the feel of it. Watch the gust speed,use the correct kite for the gusts.

Txshooter38 - 26-9-2011 at 04:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WELDNGOD
let's look at this...... You got lofted by a 3.0 beamer..... That tells me you were flying in some Nukin winds. Beamers are not lifty kites. You were probably flying in conditions you don't yet have the skillset for.. Just keep flying the little ones until you get the feel of it. Watch the gust speed,use the correct kite for the gusts.


Right on the money. I made a stupid mistake a couple of months ago flying my 5m in "stupid" gusty wind. I got lofted faster than I could drop the handles and summarily dropped. It sucked but I learned a leason about flying in gusting winds!

Don't sell your gear hang in there, pad up, and don't fly in gusty conditions.

John Holgate - 26-9-2011 at 04:11 PM

I watch the wind pretty closely - if trees are moving about a lot, that tells me it's gusty. If they're really moving, I won't even take a kite out of the bag. If they're bent over in the wind but staying pretty still, that tells me it's smooth wind and it's time for some fun

I learned pretty quickly that trying to scud on grass was going to end in a sprained ankle. So I will avoid the power zone if I'm on grass and there's any power in the wind. Sand is the best - if you can get to a beach. And a smooth on-shore sea breeze is absolutely magic to fly in.

Keep kiting in light winds, but not gusty winds and build your confidence back up. If you cannot hold your ground against the kite, swap to a smaller kite.

Remember, YOU are in charge. The decision on the wind conditions is yours. You make the kite selection. If you are careful, there is absolutely NO reason to get lofted, dragged or yanked about the place. When you start pushing the limits of your ability, that's when things can go wrong.

Don't put any pressure on yourself to fly - if conditions are nice, fly and enjoy it.

Confidence is a really tricky thing if you lose it. Keep thinking of all the things you did right, and the bits that you really enjoy. Keep to gentle conditions - ease you're way back into it.

Best of luck.

Bladerunner - 26-9-2011 at 05:02 PM

I think most of us take a licking at 1st. It makes you realize this game is real ! Those who don't get injured early can get a false sense of security.

DON"T turn your back on the sport! It gets much more fun. Just fly underpowered and work the kite harder.

For me , pads are required to boost my courage level.

We generally don't use kite killers in Vancouver. ( it has been discussed ) Are there roads or power lines down wind of you? As unpopular as it is to say , there is no law that says you must use them. If you have proper room downwind letting go of on handle , if you must , flags the kite. The other handle will shoot downwind so not a good move in populated areas. Proper kite control means you should rarely ever have to let go.

P.S. Most of us get so scared / excited that we are not ourselves just before a good session. It is that " am I shaking 'cause I'm afraid or excited ?" feeling that draws many of us to the sport!

WELDNGOD - 26-9-2011 at 05:31 PM

Tx, you watch that twister!

g-force junkie - 26-9-2011 at 05:53 PM

Go with Peter!

g-force junkie - 26-9-2011 at 05:55 PM

John
When the big trees are rockin it's just right for a PL arc=super session

Todd - 26-9-2011 at 07:23 PM

Good info in this thread folks :thumbup:

pyro22487 - 26-9-2011 at 08:01 PM

ok so everytime before i launch my kite i get on edge. scared, excited, anxiety, and adrenaline all hit me at once right after i got spanked by a 3.5 ozone cult. before that i didnt have a problem. once i start moving i gain back my confidence in myself and my abilities. i do respect the wind though. many times i have unpacked the 2m flow and found i needed my 5m. respect the wind. if you go to small pack up the kite and go bigger. you can always go bigger its much harder to go smaller if your laying on the ground with a broken arm. have faith in your abilities though and whatever you do dont give up.just like aything it takes time and practice.

csa_deadon - 26-9-2011 at 10:12 PM

Agree with Todd. Lots of great info here guys/gals. To beat a dead horse if I may.
1) Safety gear. A helmet is a must, not an option. Be it Dirt, street, bicycle get one if you don't already have one. Impact armor (chest, elbows, knees, gloves.)
2)Practice
3)practice
4)practice, see where this is going.
5) You've learned this one already. Always respect the wind. Do yourself a favor and learn about the weather. Learn what your local conditions do before the wind goes bad.

Your confidence will return. Maybe not as quickly as you would like. Took me almost a year after breaking three ribs in my buggy.
Don't let anyone push you beyond what you feel comfortable flying in. Yes you may have to endure some good natured ribbing, but you will ride and enjoy it, not be scared S**tless.

Be safe, have fun, leave tracks.

John Holgate - 26-9-2011 at 11:06 PM

Quote:

Don't let anyone push you beyond what you feel comfortable flying in. Yes you may have to endure some good natured ribbing, but you will ride and enjoy it, not be scared S**tless.


+1 :thumbup:

Midgaar - 27-9-2011 at 10:10 AM

I was in exactly the same boat as you're in now. The second or third time I had the kite out I sprang my ankle and twisted my knee really good, on a 3m Beamer none the less. I had just purchased my 9.5m Montana and was very close to selling it. It took me a couple months to regain the confidence to fly my kites again but the thing that helped the most... getting in a buggy. Flying static was pretty stressful on my body, scudding on grass is fun the first few times but just awkward and painful after that. The kite in generating all this energy and your arms, back, legs, feet, and joints are taking the brunt of that energy. Once I got in the buggy and put that energy to use it was a whole new world. Honestly, I don't see the point in static flying anything over 3 meters unless you're trying to jump. You may also try to find a beach, the sand makes scudding SOOOO much more forgiving.

Don't throw in the towel just yet, get some wheels under you in some form first.

shehatesmyhobbies - 27-9-2011 at 11:56 AM

Not that this will help you regain confidence, but I only fly wearing "skate" type flat soled shoes. Makes scudding, even incidental scudding a lot easier. I found that wearing regular tennis shoes, scudding especially during lift offs became a little difficult and on grass fields, caught clumps of grass and caused me to end up on my face. Just another little tid bit!

I don't intentionally jump any more unless I am on a beach, so the shoe fits the purpose.

badinfluence - 27-9-2011 at 01:48 PM

Thanks again for the great advice and help. My plan for now is to get in the buggy and try to get off the grass and go for some hardpack or pavement which should let the buggy roll easier and i will start out with the 2.0 and see if i can work it to get some movement. When I hurt myself, I was static flying and it feels like everytime the kite pulls me harder than i can control i get scared of it and then the fun goes downhill from there. Practice on letting go is harder than it seems but is more importaint then getting hurt. As posted earlier, it is probably a good thing i got hurt and i am lucky that i healed without any real problem because it showed me a whole new respect for safety and understanding for power kites. It could have gone real wrong. The thing i notice is smaller kites with lighter wind makes for no power which all seems safer but no movement. Average winds for my area are 8 to 10 mph. Ill keep you all posted and thanks again for the support.....

WELDNGOD - 27-9-2011 at 01:55 PM

yikes ! be careful on pavement! You don't slide.....

Txshooter38 - 27-9-2011 at 03:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WELDNGOD
Tx, you watch that twister!


You are right....it is a beast! The mistake I made was thinking that I could hold down the 5m because it wasn't a "lifty" kite. I parked it at the zenith and got lifted about 8 feet. Not that high but high enough to get my attention.

It scared me and I am glad it did. I flew it pretty good even though I was pretty freaked out and after a good distance drift downwind I landed with the kite generally above me.

It still hurt b/c when the gust was gone there wasn't much of any lift left for my 205lbs.

I am certain the Twister would have landed me in the morgue in that wind.

nocando - 27-9-2011 at 11:57 PM

Some very excellent info here but have overlooked one issue that at times is hard to do.

DO NOT KITE BY YOURSELF how many times have we all been told this, yet we continue to do so.

And yes I have been yarded heaps when out by myself but luckily nothing serious just bruised pride and some lost skin.

Looking_Up - 28-9-2011 at 12:01 PM

Know your weather size for gust use numbers judging plants can be extremely deceiving put a small strop between the top of your handles and your kitekillers will not tangle u just pickum back up and start flying again there should also not be very much length between your wrist and the kk attachment point I teach people to drop the kite on command constantly and sit down my wife rolls around in the grass getting drug all over the place giggling up a storm once she figured this out she will put up her kite static in winds I wouldn't find it fun unless I was in a buggy she wears kk all the time
That's all I have to say about that now for a hartstopping anticdote
My 9 yr brother inlaw came to the park with me one day my over protective wife was not with us on this occasion and after flying the big stuff for a little while we put away the depower and got out the 2.5 sami it was to windy for him to fly alone so I decided I would hold on to him this method failed because he could not keep the kite in the air yet he was starting to control the kite well and was leaning in to the power good and I was standing close by when he crashed I went to help him relaunch and that's when it happenen I launched he made a few passes and then a full pass and gust through the window from lower right to upper left he was yarded out like superman and flying through the air somehow he managed to get his feet back underhim and as soon as his tipy toes touched before I could yell it he let go because we had practiced so much it piped him petty good but then all the power was gone I was terrified and glad to see he was ok but in less than thirty seconds the color had come back to his face and there is nothing on earth that could have wiped that goofy grin of his face
So get out there and have fun +1 for the helmet I wear only dot approved for Kiting :bigok:

pyro22487 - 28-9-2011 at 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nocando
Some very excellent info here but have overlooked one issue that at times is hard to do.

DO NOT KITE BY YOURSELF how many times have we all been told this, yet we continue to do so.

And yes I have been yarded heaps when out by myself but luckily nothing serious just bruised pride and some lost skin.


+1 on this I was going to mention it but i guess it slipped my mind. oh well good catch nocando.

WELDNGOD - 28-9-2011 at 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nocando
Some very excellent info here but have overlooked one issue that at times is hard to do.

DO NOT KITE BY YOURSELF how many times have we all been told this, yet we continue to do so.

And yes I have been yarded heaps when out by myself but luckily nothing serious just bruised pride and some lost skin.
I completely agree ,however......

I don't have any other option. I'm it... the only....lone kiter in this area. They got lots of kitesurfers down at VA beach,but all they do is kite board on the ocean. prolly kill themselves with a foil on the beach. They are "surfers" w/ kites. I bet they don't ever go out and just FLY their kite.

I try to keep my celly on me, and let someone know that I'm goin. When I broke my shoulder buggying, I was ALONE! It really sucked packing all that gear up and pulling a 130 lb buggy a mile and a half ,back to the road. The worst part was picking it upright and lifting it onto the rack on my truck! Sure wish someone would have been there.

g-force junkie - 28-9-2011 at 06:02 PM

Have to agree with weldngod,in a perfect world we would always have a kiting buddy, but reality is that kiters are few and far between, if I had only kited with a buddy I would not have been kiting much. That said use common sense ,self reliance and a good depower kite and just start racking up hours.

doddg - 5-10-2011 at 10:26 AM

I just recently got back into buggy after 6 or 7 years off. Last week was my first time and I was a little scared too. I remembered the rules, always launch to the side of the wind window pointing to the outside and unhooked, (I use handles for buggying with line for harness) let it rise slowly. then hook in. I always unhooked my handles anytime I was doing something scary, like around people, cruising down wind, going around objects so I could just, Let go if I had too, remember though that the kite is also your only break....and I think i only ever let go once in 12 years of active buggying before I took a break...but it gave me confidence to know that I could, just let go....

Last week in Wildwood I used a 2.8 meter, but in mid to high teen winds, it was to quick for me, so I went with the larger 4meter and adjusted the bottom lines out to the end to depower the thing a bit and once in the air, kept it higher. once my confidence was built up, I began launching, while hooked up, to the side, and sitting in the buggy. Just make sure you are pointed the right way. That way I was not pulled on the ground, I would simply, just go.....

Another thing that I found very helpful in my confidence is that I really worked in the past on tight turns, going backwards, 180 and 360 spins. This really helps you out when you are in a bind....to be able to control going backwards, so if you do get into trouble, and start going backwards, no trouble....just go with it, and spin out. The other thing I found that really helped me after being off for so long was my skills from kite surfing, being able to fly with out looking at your kite, by feel and that is something that just comes from experience, but you can get it even from a dual line sport kite or small foil, by practicing, out of your buggy in light winds, with your eyes away or shut and just fly. This is something I used to teach when I was a kite surf instructor, because you do have to look away from the kite to see where you are going, or make an adjustment, light your cig.....lol, whatever. Hope that helps.