Power Kite Forum - Newby question: brakes and turns

Newby question: brakes and turns

soliver - 12-1-2012 at 12:25 AM

Tell me guys, whats the proper application of brakes when turning the kite?

I have read a couple of things and tried a couple of things and am curious if I'm doing things right.

Do you pull the brake line opposite of the turning handle or on the same handle... ie. turning right: is it correct to pull the right fly line and the left brake line together, or is it right to pull the right fly line and right brake line together?

I find i get super quick turns when applying the brakes and fly lines on the same handle. But I'm pretty sure I read the oposite is correct. Does this cause a loss of power?

What's the story???

BigMikesKites - 12-1-2012 at 01:14 AM

Pull the handle and apply brake to that same side. The kite will flip around tightly as you found out.

arkay - 12-1-2012 at 01:14 AM

Well it depends on what you are trying to do with your kite and what kind of kite you have. You can turn the kite just by using the simple push/pull method for two line kites. Push one hand out, pull the other in. You can use only the brake lines. It's somewhat kite dependent on exactly how the kite will react, but generally lots of brake will likely turn faster but will generate less power. A little brakes will make small adjustments w/o losing much power. you're doing everything right

indigo_wolf - 12-1-2012 at 02:00 AM

Pull Turn
- Pulling on a handle steers the kite into the direction that is pulled.
- Pulling on the right handle sends the foil into a right curve.
- Pulling on the left handle sends the foil into a left curve.
Push-Pull Turn
- Similar to the pull turn, except that you also push with the opposite handle.
- To turn right, pull with the right handle and push with the left.
- To turn left, pull with the left handle and push with the right.
- A tad faster that a simple pull turn.
Brake Turn
- Keep one handle level. With the other handle, tilt the top end(power leader) of the handle toward your and tilt the lower end (brake leader) away from you.
- If you want to turn right, tilt the top of the right control handle towards you, with the bottom tilted away from you.
- If you want to turn left, tilt the top of the left control handle towards you, with the bottom tilted away from you.
Combination Brake Turn
- Similar to the brake turn, except whichever way you have one handle tilted, the other handle is tilted the exact opposite.
- To turn right, tilt the right handle so that the top end (power leader) is towards you and the bottom end (power leader) is away from you. At the same time, tilt the left handle so that the top end (power leader) is away from you and the bottom end (brake leader) is towards you.
- A combination brake turn can yield the tightest turns to the point that the kite will perform a "propeller spin" in relation to the center of the canopy.

1 & 2 generate wider turns. 3 & 4 are more pivots that result in sharper turns. 1 or 2 can be mixed with 3 or 4 to create sharper turns than you would get with one method alone.

Depending on the kite, a little brake pressure will actually increase power by cupping the canopy and prevent air from spilling off the trailing edge. There is a point of diminishing returns where this tension deforms the canopy and power is lost.

This info is generally found in the field manual that to often gets ignored because multiple languages are jammed together on the same pages.

For instance, Pages 33/34 of the HQ Quadline Powerkite Manual.

ATB,
Sam

BeamerBob - 12-1-2012 at 08:15 AM

and when you get rolling at speed in the buggy this weekend, you might notice that then you can mostly turn your kite by using brake control only. When I buggy, I find that to make small adjustments to flight direction I just tap the brake on the appropriate side and don't even do any push pull motion. This is because of the "apparent wind" that is hitting your kite making it more responsive to input. And yes you are doing it right now, just keep practicing and you won't even have to think about it.

soliver - 12-1-2012 at 09:15 AM

thanks guys, I thought I had it at least close to right. I experiment a lot with my turns to see what works best in any given scenario.

The question I have is over what indgo says in relation to what Big Mike says.

I mostly do what Mike says, given that I haven't developed the coordination to pull with one lead and one brake at the same time for the "propeller" style turn. I suppose this is all practice and muscle memory.

soliver - 12-1-2012 at 04:46 PM

Okay so I went out flying today and had totally lumpy and cruddy wind, but when it was decent, I tried a few of the techniques listed in Indigo's post above.

Many of it was stuff I've done before: pull turns, push pull turns etc.; so it was really just a matter of paying attention to what I was doing when I did it, and being more intentional. A good "practice" so to speak.

However I tried the "combination brake turn" and it didn't work at all. The gist of it seems to me to be pull the fly line or lead on one handle and the brake on the other handle. ... If the kite could speak it would have said "uuuuh,.... bleh." I got the sharpest turns and best results from pulling both the lead and brake on the same handle. A couple of my turns were even "propeller" like.

Once again, I'll try to claim humility to those who know more and say, maybe I did it wrong????

P.s. I was flying the beamer if that makes a difference.

Anywho, I learned some stuff,... Comments from the more wise???

BeamerBob - 12-1-2012 at 04:53 PM

You missed the message somewhere above. Do the push pull you're doing. If you want to quicken the turn, just add in some brake pull on the same handle you are already pulling. Pulling one handle and adding brake on the other would give the kite mixed signals and not accomplish much. Keep practicing and after time you won't even have to think about it................... or watch the kite for that matter.

BigMikesKites - 12-1-2012 at 06:23 PM

Its a finesse thing that just kind of comes to you after awhile. Fly, Fly, Fly. It will come.

Bladerunner - 12-1-2012 at 07:03 PM

Sounds like you are right on track. Accept the pull + brake turn bit. You will get it.

B`Bob is bang on! Work more on the brake only turns . Everything changes when you get in motion and most of your control should come from brake action at that point.

Practice slowing the speed of the kites travel through the window by applying just the right amount of brake on both handles. Too much and the kite will stall. Not enough and you wil get a huge power burst from the speed. Once you have it dialed this method helps to keep you from supermaning + overflying when you hot launch. Applying just a touch of brake like that at the edge of the window in motion gives you a power surge as the kite moves back in the window.

The pull and add break method will be important when you move up to large kites. Same with using brake turns in motion.

soliver - 12-1-2012 at 09:37 PM

Thanks guys.

Bob, I think more that I was getting mixed instructions. I've been doing what you recommended, and you're right it works great! But what I tried today that didn't work was what Indigo_wolf recommended above:

"Combination Brake Turn

Similar to the brake turn, except whichever way you have one handle tilted, the other handle is tilted the exact opposite.
To turn right, tilt the right handle so that the top end (power leader) is towards you and the bottom end (power leader) is away from you. At the same time, tilt the left handle so that the top end (power leader) is away from you and the bottom end (brake leader) is towards you.
A combination brake turn can yield the tightest turns to the point that the kite will perform a "propeller spin" in relation to the center of the canopy."

This is what really made my kite say "bleh!"... you're right it got totally mixed signals. Unless I am misreading it and not doing it right.

You are definitely right though, I was able to really whip those turns quick by adding a little break on the same "pull" handle.

Mike, you are right, I have every intention to fly, fly, fly!!!!

Thanks again guys!

Spencer

John Holgate - 14-1-2012 at 12:42 AM

Quote:

To turn right, tilt the right handle so that the top end (power leader) is towards you and the bottom end (power leader) is away from you. At the same time, tilt the left handle so that the top end (power leader) is away from you and the bottom end (brake leader) is towards you.

Sounds like you're trying to turn the kite right with the power lines and left with the brakes at the same time........ Sam ??

I usually just use a touch of left brake to turn the kite left. Sometimes, if you use too much brake, you will force the air from that side of the kite and instead of having a nice airfoil shape, you'll have the proverbial shopping bag with resulting luff/fold/spin. Technically, you've just stalled the wing and it is no longer flying, Keeping the air moving over it and keeping the shape are key. If you find the tension going out of the lines and the kite starts to lose shape, turn it down and use gravity to help put some air back in it. Particularly on the edge of the window - sometimes if you try and upturn it, you just run out of apparent wind and stall the kite. Downturning it will allow more apparent wind to hit the kite and recover. Some kites are happy to be turned with brake only and others much prefer being steered with the power lines instead.

Your kite will soon let you know if you're not doing it right :smilegrin:

indigo_wolf - 14-1-2012 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Holgate

Quote:

Sounds like you're trying to turn the kite right with the power lines and left with the brakes at the same time........ Sam ??

GACK.... late night posting and errors introduced by shoddy cut and pasting.

This:
To turn right, tilt the right handle so that the top end (power leader) is towards you and the bottom end (power leader) is away from you. At the same time, tilt the left handle so that the top end (power leader) is away from you and the bottom end (brake leader) is towards you.

should have been this:

To turn right, tilt the right handle so that the top end (power leader) is towards you and the bottom end (brake) is away from you. At the same time, tilt the left handle so that the top end (power leader) is away from you and the bottom end (brake leader) is towards you.

Just one of those things that is harder to describe without video. :sniff:

ATB,
Sam

soliver - 14-1-2012 at 10:46 PM

I understood what you meant, but that still seems like what John saId above:

"Sounds like you're trying to turn the kite right with the power lines and left with the brakes at the same time."

anyhow, I think what's in my best interest is to keep doing what seems to be working best for me, and continue to learn the finess by flying.

Thanks for all the suggestions! :D

Spencer

soliver - 15-1-2012 at 05:06 PM

ps... how do you guys do that box around the quote thing?

John Holgate - 15-1-2012 at 06:54 PM

I have absolutely no idea what that is !!

indigo_wolf - 15-1-2012 at 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soliver
ps... how do you guys do that box around the quote thing?

Pic = 1K words. Take a look at the attachment.

ATB,
Sam

quote.jpg - 57kB

soliver - 15-1-2012 at 09:46 PM

thanks, ... After I posted, I saw that "quote" button and felt a little dumb...

That snake's gonna bite me one day.

Thank you guys for all the helpful info!!

Spencer

John Holgate - 15-1-2012 at 10:52 PM

Quote:

and felt a little dumb...

You thought you felt dumb?? I thought you were asking about some sort of kite maneuver!!! Doh!

pyro22487 - 16-1-2012 at 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Holgate

Quote:

and felt a little dumb...

You thought you felt dumb?? I thought you were asking about some sort of kite maneuver!!! Doh!

LOL yea had those days John.

soliver - 16-1-2012 at 09:22 AM

HAH!!!

LOL!

Cerebite - 17-1-2012 at 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf

Quote:

Originally posted by John Holgate

Quote:

Sounds like you're trying to turn the kite right with the power lines and left with the brakes at the same time........ Sam ??

I do not know if it is posted out to the interweb [Sam will find it before I am done typing :wee:] but I think that the video that Rev sends out with their new kites does a split screen thing so you can see the kite and the handles at the same time.

to the OP if you have not tried one the Rev's, being a framed 4 line kite, are great for seeing/ practicing/ learning flying techniques.
cheers

indigo_wolf - 17-1-2012 at 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cerebite
I do not know if it is posted out to the interweb [Sam will find it before I am done typing :wee:] but I think that the video that Rev sends out with their new kites does a split screen thing so you can see the kite and the handles at the same time.

to the OP if you have not tried one the Rev's, being a framed 4 line kite, are great for seeing/ practicing/ learning flying techniques.
cheers

This one perhaps?

Doesn't really focus on that aspect of turns.... more on different types of hovers for Mega Flys.

Unfortunately, this is not the right type of propellor turn :no:

Chris covers some of it here (@6:00 - 7:30), but no split screen.

ATB,
Sam

soliver - 17-1-2012 at 10:39 PM

Thanks Sam, those were great vids,...

I appreciate you taking the time to put those together,.. I'll keep at it.

Now if someone can tell me how to embed videos like that in a post!! (i was fighting with that recently:puzzled

I particularly liked the Rev vid. I would love to fly one of those!