Power Kite Forum

What makes a snow kite a Snow Kite?

eggy - 2-2-2012 at 08:20 AM

Just crusing around the web looking for used equipment I have run across a few Snow kites at a good price. What is the diff in Snow to land kites? They do the same thing?

apextech - 2-2-2012 at 09:26 AM

Anybody feel free to correct me, but most if not all snow designed kites are depower kites to modulate the power as a LEI does, in fact LEI's are popular for this use, My 2c

Feyd - 2-2-2012 at 11:56 AM

You know, that's a good question.

As a snowkiter I find there are somethings that make a kite more useful as a snowkite. The durabilty being a big thing to consider. Whipping a kite into the ice is a little more destructive to some kite than to others. But crashing a kite into the ground is obviously going to test durabilty as well. Abrasion resistance is important as well. Crusty ice/snow or hard packed dirt or playa clay can really burn up wing tips in a hurry if you skim the surface at all.

Though a lot of people do use LEIs on snow I suspect a vast number of them do so because it's what they are used to more so than they think LEI make better snowkites. Pumping is a hassle and some valves don't like cold. Also bladders are sometimes affected by cold.


I don't like the term "Snowkite" because it pigeon holes the kite's usage. Land based kite would make more sense. IMO.

stetson05 - 2-2-2012 at 12:19 PM

While there are some kites specifically designed for snow use I think any kite would do. What you should be really careful of is the retailer or seller that is selling a kite that is not well made or a knockoff. There are lots of great kites out there and but there are a lot of knock off kites being passed off as buggy kites or snow kites. My kites are closed cell depower kites that are made for land, water, and snow.

If you are looking for cheap kites I wouldn't recommend anything cheaper than Pansh. Not the best and you get what you pay for but they will get you flying and riding even on snow. Anything cheaper than that I wouldn't recommend. The problem is some of these knockoffs are being sold for hundreds of dollars.

What is the brand of the kite and we can advise you if it is a good manufacturer or not.

macboy - 2-2-2012 at 01:56 PM

I think Feyd's right - no need to pigeon hole the kites. Generally all kites can be used as snow kites (and land kites for that matter). I think the primary difference is that land/snow kites are typically open cell foils either fixed bridle or depower.

(Are there any other fixed bridle, close cell foils other than the KiteSurfers?)

rocfighter - 2-2-2012 at 02:29 PM

I have a North Huskey 6m snow kite. It is a closed cell so it will not accumulate snow in the cells. Much like a twinskin surf kite. Although as stated any kite will do. But as Bobbie and Snowspider can agree open cell kites are not good in pouring rain as they fill up with water and don't fly so good!!

eggy - 2-2-2012 at 02:36 PM

Stetson, I have seen a few Ozone Mantas around the 400.00 mark. That doesnt seem too bad of a price if its a depower and in good shape.

g00fba11 - 2-2-2012 at 02:41 PM

I agree with much of what is said here. The only other observation I would make is that it seems to me that when a manufacturer designates a kite as a snow kite one of the key points they make is that the kite is better at handling the shifty gusty winds found when engaging in snowkiting.

That being said, I agree with Feyd, why pigeon hole a kite. If it has been designed with the characteristics to handle these conditions, why not state that and point out that these flying characteristics lend themselves well to flying the kite as a snowkite, but also make it an awesome kite for these conditions year round?

markite - 2-2-2012 at 03:00 PM

just touching on how some kites perform in winter - although I use a small mix of kite designs in winter I use my twinskins the majority of situations. This past weekend the conditions one day at a winter event had heavy snow all day that was very sticky snow. All kites sitting on the ground accumulated a lot of wet heavy snow and once up you could see snow collecting on the kites. That day the Chargers would have the vents totally covered and blocked within a few minutes of flying. The kites felt heavy and sluggish and needed constant front line coaxing and shaking the kite to try and get weight off. The LEIs on the other hand were doing way better that day. Not often I get days like that but there are some days when something just works better.
Now the next day was sunshine and absolutely perfect snow and wind conditions and the Charger rocked:
http://vimeo.com/35921013
(just cruising to show friends what the conditions were like on the day they didn't make the drive - and sore ankle so no jumping)

stetson05 - 2-2-2012 at 03:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by eggy
Stetson, I have seen a few Ozone Mantas around the 400.00 mark. That doesnt seem too bad of a price if its a depower and in good shape.


Never flown a Manta but you are looking in the right direction. I don't think you can go wrong with a quality brand. I was worried you might be looking on ebay and found some knockoffs by jonesband and his other names/ilk.

Good luck out there. I thought I saw a slingshot (drawing a blank) on here recently and I have heard they are pretty good with a great price. Of course you can't go wrong with some of the arc's for sale here too. It depends on your preference.

Bladerunner - 2-2-2012 at 05:48 PM

I think it is or was pretty common for LEI companies that made foils to label them as " snow kites ". Airush North and JN come to mind.

I think most kites labeled as snow kites are depower foils with a low aspect ratio.

As others have said, any kite will work. Be it LEI, twin skin, FB or ...

Go with what you know !

Feyd - 2-2-2012 at 05:52 PM

If the Slingshot you're refering to was the Sabre 1 I remeber seeing it too.

I really miss the my Sabre 1. Great kite but the vents shrank do to the mess getting snagged on crusty snow. It was considered a defect by SS and they stepped up and replaced it for me with a Sabre 2.

And they let me keep the Sabre 1. They said to cut the mesh out and it would still fly so I did while I waited for the Sabre 2. I really prefered the Sabre 1. If the sabre that was in the for sale section is still there I think it was a 7m. That would be a great kite for snow riding.

Feyd - 2-2-2012 at 05:55 PM

BTW one of the new snowkites from Peter Lynn is a fixed bridle. It's primarily a trainer in regards to it's designed purpose.

There's a pic of it in use on the Peter Lynn site. Not sure what they cost.

stetson05 - 2-2-2012 at 06:40 PM

Looked it up, a slingshot ranger 12 but didn't check if it was sold. I think WolfWolfee had a saber if you can get ahold of him. I haven't had much luck lately.

indigo_wolf - 2-2-2012 at 07:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Feyd
If the Slingshot you're refering to was the Sabre 1 I remeber seeing it too.

I really miss the my Sabre 1. Great kite but the vents shrank do to the mess getting snagged on crusty snow. It was considered a defect by SS and they stepped up and replaced it for me with a Sabre 2.

And they let me keep the Sabre 1. They said to cut the mesh out and it would still fly so I did while I waited for the Sabre 2. I really prefered the Sabre 1. If the sabre that was in the for sale section is still there I think it was a 7m. That would be a great kite for snow riding.


Slingshot made a Sabre? The only one I am familiar with is Flexifoil's.

ATB,
Sam

indigo_wolf - 2-2-2012 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Feyd
I don't like the term "Snowkite" because it pigeon holes the kite's usage. Land based kite would make more sense. IMO.


Quote:
Originally posted by macboy
I think Feyd's right - no need to pigeon hole the kites. Generally all kites can be used as snow kites (and land kites for that matter).


A major pet peeve is that manufacturers continue to break up their websites by these categories. :mad: :megan:

Really wish they would stop and just organize by 2/3/4 lines, Fixed-Bridle/Depower, etc. and just leave it at that.

ATB,
Sam

rocfighter - 2-2-2012 at 07:38 PM

Sam I think if any one can convince them of that it's you. :yes:SO I comission you to get them striaghtened out!!:smug: If you choose to take this mission... You know the rest!!:crazy:

snowspider - 2-2-2012 at 09:39 PM

What makes a snowkite a snowkite ? That would be the guy at the end of the lines being pulled thru the snow with a biga$$ grin on his face!

Feyd - 3-2-2012 at 06:44 AM

Damn Spidey beat me to it.:embarrased:

The snow segment in kitesport is such a small segment that there are very few "snow Specific" kites out there. Especially when you can pretty much use anything to get around.

If it feels good, do it.
:D

indigo_wolf - 3-2-2012 at 07:32 AM

This has always caught my eye:

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climax COMBAT (orange)

Based on climax Extreme climax combat is specifically made for extreme power and traction kite activities like buggy racing, snow kiting and kite surfing.

From their unique colour combinations to their tight stabilised weave of Coramid fibres, they are your ticket to performance and safety. The Combat has no stretch, it creates a direct feel contact and gives the flyer an awareness of the kites every movement. The result is a faster, tighter turning kite with less steering motion required to initiate turning. Climax lines are frost-resisting (to -36° C), pre stretched, tough, durable and abrasion resistant. They are pre sleeved so set up time is minimal.
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Don't think I have seen similar claims on any other OEM or aftermarket flying lines.

ATB,
Sam