So I got my ATB this morning and haven't gotten to try out the harness. At my place it was blowing a stead 10 knots. So on my lunch we went to the
park about 5 miles away and the wind was crap there
It was around 5 knots but getting a lot of mechanical turbulance with the addition of the wind coming from two different directions....
But I got to get the kite up and get the feel for her with the harness. It was fun and kicked my butt, turned out to be 80* degrees today. Otherwise I
had an audience and their wind dance helped a little lol.
A couple times I tried jumping on the board but with out any luck. I need to get use to the harness first and need to get to a better location with
more stable wind.
For your amusement I posted the video of this session. Nothing exciting but something for you to laugh at and feel bad for me at the same time. I'll
take any pointers too. I believe other than the wind being the main factor, it was also due to not having the kite fully inflated....
Also the rear lines seem really loose/no pressure most of the time. Is this b/c I have it too much depower?
Tried to milk the bottom wind range of my kites many times, so definitely feel your pain bro. But even in those sucky conditions, you’re still
getting to know the kite. Better than not flying it at all imho. Enjoyed the vid cheezycheese - 12-2-2012 at 05:09 AM
You came home without injury... It was a great day...!! Kamikuza - 12-2-2012 at 05:23 AM
Helluva way to launch a kite LEIs will punish you if you try that in good wind
:o
Not much you can do when the wind is so light you have to work the kite just to keep it in the air
You need enough wind to be able to keep the kite near the zenith, step onto the board, then dive the kite and ride off...
Dunno how much you know already but at the risk of teaching you to suck eggs - board 90° to the wind, kite near the zenith, get on the board and sort
your feet in the strap, hop the board around to about 45° to the wind in the direction you want to head, dive the kite and ride off, edging the board
upwind a bit and leaning back against the kite, working it until you have the speed to ride easily...
Really hard to see from the video about the rear lines...
Don't think of the bar and strap as "depower" but as a trimming system - you trim the kite for optimal flying performance with both the bar and the
trim strap; the bar being a temporary "setting" and the trim strap/rope a more permanent setting.
Either one though does nothing more than alter the relative line lengths - makes the rears 'longer' than the front etc altering the Angle of Attack of
the kite in the process; turning is a separate matter.
So you've got the set the kite up for your conditions...Kamikuza - 12-2-2012 at 05:29 AM
When you get more confident, you can skip a few steps and jump straight to starting with the board pointing in the direction you want, then just
stepping in and diving the kite...
Dude, I love the team support! You can't help but have fun!
Be sure and check out Carl's How To videos: http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=20841
He did a great job with these.Bladerunner - 12-2-2012 at 09:26 AM
You are still not filling the kite near enough ! It shouldn't sit all limp like that or buckle in the sky.
Learning to board start is easier with at least enough wind for the kite to sit at zenith.
You need to set your board on more of a downwind angle.
Looks like you have a gaggle of young pilots to be following you there !
You know of course that a hot launch like that will be a nono in real wind ?mougl - 12-2-2012 at 10:19 AM
Dude, loved the video! To me, that was an epic session.
Looks like you had fun, learned something, and came home safe
Love it!AZKevin - 12-2-2012 at 12:28 PM
Granted it was fun and I appreciate the advice. Like I said, I'm new to all this and all in all its fun even in no wind and just with gusts. One hell
of a work out tho!
I'll take a look at those videos and use them for sure. And I have to admit, I was in a hurry when pumping up the kite. So....Im sure it WAS under
inflated.
The kite did sit at Zenith a few times but then it also shot over/past me and came crashing down.... :dunno:
I believe this is b/c the settings were not correct, as in, on the bridle...or thats what I read. When it goes past twelve o'clock, the front lines
are too tight and the rear lines have too much slack. And to correct this, I would need to adjust which knot it is on. This is where I am lost. There
aren't any knots on the line already to adjust it. So we'll see how it goes. I've got my work cut out for me with playing with the adjustments on the
kite itself and getting used to the settings (depower). But at least Im having fun doing it and burning fat doing it AZKevin - 12-2-2012 at 12:57 PM
Flyfish - Thanks for that link! I missed that one somehow. Good videos for sure!Kamikuza - 12-2-2012 at 05:26 PM
"The kite did sit at Zenith a few times but then it also shot over/past me and came crashing down...."
Too gusty or your back lines are way too slack... front lines are supposed to be tight :D
Is it the OEM bar for the kite?Flyfish - 12-2-2012 at 05:49 PM
Hey Kevin,
I'll try to give tutorial on how to tune a LEI.
1. All lines should be equal length. To check this... Unroll lines, separate them, then attach them to something solid, then go to your bar and pull
against the lines. The depower strap should be set to full power. Don't use a harness, just pull the bar. If the lines are not all taunt then pull the
bar to stretch the short ones.
2. In "theory" the lines should now be just attached to the kite at factory pigtails, and the depower strap used to tune the power based on the power
of the kite. But, to check the kite for stalling: fly kite with depower strap full power, stabilize the kite in the air (no turns) and pull the bar
slowly all the way from full out to full in. The kite should stay locked in place with just an increase of power. It should not "back up" in the wind
window at all. If this happens: your front lines are too long or your back lines are too short. To adjust this at the kite just think about how to
change either one of these at the kite attachments. So basically, you want the kite right at the max angle of attack without any stall with the bar
pulled all the way in.
But remember: to check this you need decent steady wind, the wind you had in your video would be hard to tell anything in.
Hopefully I'm not rambling...Flyfish - 12-2-2012 at 05:59 PM
Side note: all the overflying and crashing, probably from the horrible wind. This is one reason I'm new to this forum. Foil kites behave much better
in sucky wind. I'm a half convert to Peter Lynn foils because they mind themselves up in the sky while I surf the wave!
but your wind that day would make any kite pissed off!kitedelight - 12-2-2012 at 08:21 PM
haha, yup, a bit of a crowd watching..maybe some future kiters in there you just inspired.
failed? no. Looks fine to me for a first go. Not sure you could have ridden much that day as a beginner, it's probably only a static flying day.
The easiest day to get on your your board is when you can keep the kite just sitting at the edge of the window flying statically, that way, you don't
have to worry about getting just the right angle of the board to keep the kite up and keep forward speed going. Ya, all in all, good day for static
flight, tough day to learn both boarding skills and lightwind technique all at once.AZKevin - 12-2-2012 at 10:03 PM
Thanks again for the advise and info. I can never use too much.
Kamikuza - The bar is a 09 Best bar.
I went out to a spot near my place in the desert. I made sure it was fully inflated and I got to play with adjusting the sheeting. I've always had the
depower strap fully pulled. So I attempted to pull more power. Amazing how much different the bar pulled (sheet fully powered). I could tell there was
more pressure in the bar than the front lines. This made it easier to control the kite and I was able to plant the kite and keep it at 2 o'clock.
So with your input and recommendations I am going to keep practice kite control before attempting the board again. Also looking for a better location
with more steady winds.
Flyfish - Thanks for the tuning tutorial info. I am going to have to do that to make sure it is all even. Curious tho, on the bridle, there are
adjustment knots on there as well....? I've included a picture below what that. Any ideas where it should be?
I also included picture of my flight today. I recorded it with my cell again but its nothing worth posting a video of. It was much better than
yesterday tho. I got to do some jumps flew down which a good 10 ft or so.
Bridle
Kamikuza - 12-2-2012 at 11:28 PM
Ah. If you read the other thread, you'll know that I believe in using the same bar as the kite maker... :D
MOST kites are designed so that when the bar is sheeted in and the trim stap is fully out (max AoA for the kite or what most people call "full power")
all the lines end at the same point, at the kite end; ie. they are "equal length". In theory, any bar that is set up like that will work... but there
may be differences in the amount of trim or depower throw between bars...
Hard to see from the pic - but those just look like loops for attaching the bridle line. The part the pulley runs over will wear and it's probably so
you can replace them :dunno:zero gee - 13-2-2012 at 02:09 AM
If you check the top of the canopy at that location you should see a graphic explaining that using the inboard loops increases bar pressure and using
the outboard loops decreases the bar pressure (labeled f1, ft2, f3). I believe that there are 3 more loops at the other end of that bridle line
labeled something like f4, f5, f6. and the steering lines bridles (b1 and b2).
The system is called A-KPO. Learn about it and check out the tuning for it on the Trix here... http://www.globekites.com/08/-=GLOBEKITES=-.htmlAZKevin - 14-2-2012 at 12:26 PM
Kamikuza - Ya it didnt come with the original bar but I'm working out the kinks. I just need a lil more stable wind to get it to sit and let me play
with the settings.
Zero gee- Thanks for the link to that site. Ya I've used that website to adjust the settings to low wind/light bar pressure. Slowly but surely I am
going to change it from f3/f6/b2 to maybe other settings but for now I am keeping it at light wind since....we have light winds lol.
As for the crowd, there was a kids Bday party going on the otherside of the park. Apparently this was the highlight of their party haha. We had them
cheering and doing the "Wind Dance" to get the kite up. :frog:thanson2001ok - 14-2-2012 at 05:03 PM
Nice video. What a great fan club! Sounds like you are getting a handle on things.
Now, at the risk of sounding like your mother.... where is your helmet?AZKevin - 14-2-2012 at 07:08 PM
Yes a helmet....I really need to get one of those. Especially when I fly at the spot right next to my place. Its all dirt and rocks (sizes from
pebbles to footballs). Speaking of.....
I had a great day of flying. It was a steady 12 knots. Got to park the kite in the sky play with different power settings. Jumped a few times, almost
bit the dust a few times. Oh and best of all, I got to practice relaunching the kite. Granted, its easier on land but I learned how to walk to one
side of the window, flip her over and tug and wa la! Off she went!
It was blowing about 20 mph at the lake. Too much for me and this kite I believe. Or at least too much for me right now.
Anyways, loving this so far and its only getting better AZKevin - 14-2-2012 at 07:30 PM
Oh ya, and I got my water board today. This thing is HUGE! Im used to seeing wakeboards but this thing.....almost as tall as me! Brand new for $220
shipped :singing:barnes - 14-2-2012 at 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AZKevin
Yes a helmet....I really need to get one of those. Especially when I fly at the spot right next to my place. Its all dirt and rocks (sizes from
pebbles to footballs).
Do it! I'm a huge helmet dork, couldn't go out without one. (Education is way to expensive to risk! :tumble
But good work being safe, practicing relaunching and taking it slow. To many people dive head first and get hurt. Keep it up!Kamikuza - 14-2-2012 at 09:12 PM
Helmets are also really good places to mount a GoPro :DAZKevin - 18-2-2012 at 10:43 AM
Here is a more successful day of kiting, IMO.
Made some more adjustments to the knot placement and got to play in 8-12 knots of wind. Can't imagine flying this thing in any stronger winds.
Try and find the video examples online of the " Pendulam " jump. It is a much better way of setting up + landing. Supermaning like that rarely ends up
with a smooth / safe finish.
Basically, run left, send kite to the right. At max load pull in the bar , pop and redirect to the direction you are running. Bring the kite overhead
while in the air and then turn it in your direction of travel just before you touch down.
+1 for getting a helmet. You will be a role model to a bunch of those kids who are watching. Best to lead by example! A helmet is handy when learning
the board. ( for me , hip pads as well )AZKevin - 18-2-2012 at 02:10 PM
Ya sorry bout that. They both go to the same video. That video has two different days of flying in it. One with little wind, other with better winds.
I was just playing around with the jumping b/c it happened once on accident and as you stated, the landing wasnt so smooth. I've tried the board a few
times but need a better area and more time to practice. Using running outside on my hour lunch and flying and then running/limping back inside to
work.
Got my new pump, HUGE difference. I can pump this kite up in 5 minutes (with a break in the middle). Can't wait to get to the lake and practice body
dragging then jump on the board!
Mean while I'll look into the Pendulum jump Bladerunner - 18-2-2012 at 02:49 PM
Heres one ! OOPs it is old . You may not be able to view it.zero gee - 18-2-2012 at 02:58 PM
I think the kite needs a little more inflation when the kite kinks (folds) in the middle when standing on end like at 6:00. If you flick the LE with
your finger it should kind of ping and not so much a dull thud. Guys here seem to get that right and not blow the kite up.
Have you checked your line lengths yet?
The kite seemed to fly deep in the window and stall a lot even though you appeared to be flying it fully depowered. Could be the wind was way too
light (less than 8 more often than 12??).
Instead of pulling on a line to steer, try to sheet in on the bar some first and pull the bar to steer, then sheet out a bit after it's turned so it
can accellerate. The kite loses steering when flown completely depowered like you were (even worse in light winds).AZKevin - 18-2-2012 at 03:26 PM
Zero, I thought I put enough air into it. Granted I am still a lil hesistant on blowing it up TOO much but its pretty hard. Next time I go out I'll
pump it up and take a video of it and you guys can let me know if more air is required and won't pop here.
The clips with the camera stationary, it was very little winds, probable less than 6 knots....kite kept stalling and I wasn't sure about the settings.
I have since adjusted it and it flys much better. But those clips were in very light winds. I believe that was the main issue there.
I checked the line lengths and they are all equal.
Heres a question. I've been practicing keeping the kite park at different parts of the edge of the window. And for the most part it stays there with
little to no correction. But when I try keeping the kite between 11-1 it feels as if it wants to pull me straight/vertically up. Making it difficult
to keep it up there. I dont see this being an issue when I am on the water but for now, static flying what would be causing this. Im sure its due to
my inexperience and not fully understanding the characteristics of the kite and the settings but might help if someone was able to explain it a little
better.
I tried pushing the bar out, pulling it in and adjusting the sheeting. :dunno:
Thankszero gee - 18-2-2012 at 05:34 PM
about 2:00, what a properly inflated kite should look like... Kamikuza - 18-2-2012 at 07:41 PM
I seriously doubt you'll be able to blow a kite with a hand/foot pump unless the bladder is already borked... like in the video, it should stand on a
tip without distorting or easier to check while you're pumping: flick with a nail it should ping... or try and bend it with your hands.
You can buy little pressure gauges from Slingshot et al and I reckon 8psi is a good place to start. Only works on regular valves though...
Kite lifting at 11 to 1 is normal and why we keep it lower
You might need to check out some video's on trimming the kite... anyway, 6 knots is SFA to be using a kite in and probably below its design
limitation. My big Xbow has "from 6 knots..." on its wind range chart but it'll barely stay in the sky and is no use until 12 knots plus.Flyfish - 18-2-2012 at 08:55 PM
Yea, like kami said, it looks like it's just too light at times for the kite to be flying. Your doing great. Just remember that the way you are
launching is ok for the super light wind you are flying in, but don't try that "hot" launch in real wind! Especially with your C kite. Also just note
that because your flying in such light wind, you are throwing the kite straight down wind through the power zone. As you fly in higher wind have
respect for the power zone!
As I watch you playing with your kite in the desert, I can't help but to wait for your next post:
"Please help with leaking inflatable kite" :puzzled:
Keep it up bro, your doing great!AZKevin - 18-2-2012 at 09:45 PM
Thanks Zero, that actually give me a lot better idea of how it should be.
Kami, I've been reading up and watching a lot of videos trimming, its just taking time to get used to it then change be the settings and seeing how it
reacts differently. Doesn't help when the winds are changing constantly.
Surprisingly it has been windy (again, for us that's 8+ knots) here almost every other day. So I've been out there everyday working the 6 knot winds.
And when I say 6 knots that's with it gusting u to 10. But on the days it's a steady 10+ knots, I have a blast. Kicks my ass tho. Actually hurt my
knee coming down off one of those little jumps, so im sitting out the next couple of days. But looking to hit the lake this week or next!
Flyfish, I know not to fly it through the power zone when winds are high. Honestly, when its blowing 12 knots, that's pretty intimidating and self
launching is trick but do able. Only time I feel out of control is when the kite is right above me and I can't reach the ground. Othwise I wont be
flying in winds higher than 12 knots.
I haven't even tried the C kite. And as for the hole in the kite....im doing my best to prevent that by keeping it airborne.clintopher - 19-2-2012 at 02:17 AM
It's great to know your kite before you get onto the water, but don't forget, water is a completely different medium. Kite flight on a board on the
water is similar to static land based flight, but it is a completely different experience. You need more power for water flight than land flight so
you're kite should feel pretty powered up when you launch. There shouldn't be any feeling of instability or inconsistent behavior. When the wind
picks up to a proper level and the kite is in tune the result is a kite that is eager to fly with gobs of power when you're on the shore. You say
your water is a lake right? I've never had a big kite up in suitable kitesurfing winds on a grassy/dirty area. Fortunately, it's always been sand.
Having flown my little kites at the park in decent winds and my kitesurfing kites in marginal at best winds, I wouldn't want to be flying the big kite
in the grass for very long. In other words, get to the water immediately after launch.
Once you figure the kites out and become comfortable with the massive available power on tap (and I mean MASSIVE) it won't be critical to get the kite
to the water immediately although it's still important not to waste time. But until then it's best to get in the water and away from shore a little
bit. I kite at the beach and never come inside the break. We have a mushy east coast shore break that's pretty close to the beach but that still
puts me 10 or more line lengths from the shore and I try to keep a couple line length distance between the kite and the surfers in the surf zone.
NEVER FORGET Flyfish's words, "As you fly in higher wind have respect for the power zone!" Truer words you will not often hear.Bladerunner - 19-2-2012 at 09:22 AM
Keep it low and GO !
Don't leave the kite up there at 1 - 11 when well powered. I gust will lift you before you know what has happened. Keeping the kite low helps keep you
earthbound in those bursts.
That kite is designed for motion. Time to get moving !
Go to www.kitesurfingschool.org and such to figure out the " SELF RESCUE " as soon as you get out on the water.
Also search proper body position to drag upwind with and without your board. LOTS to do before attempting board starts in water yet !AZKevin - 19-2-2012 at 11:07 AM
clintopher - I've been flying on hard grass and dirt with this kite from no wind (only on gusts) to a steady 12 knots with gusts to 15 knots.
Definitely feels like I am fighting a bull when its above 8 knots. When it has been a steady 12 knots I dont even fly it through the powerzone due to
the amount of power there. I believe that with my weight(160lbs), kite size(15m) and a large board (150cmx44cm) I should be able to get up and go on
the water with at least 10 knots. I'll find out soon enough but the way she pulls in light winds, I dont see an issue with her pulling me on water but
I could be wrong.
Last friday I went out between 5:30-6:30 and you can see the wind conditions. Thats about the hardest it has blown here starting this year - 15 knots.
At the lake it was 20 knots for about an hour.
Blade- I'll avoid flying it straight up and keep it parked lower. Ive watch the Progession Dvd a couple times now, prepping myself for the water. Just
gotta find a warmish day with some enough wind. This Thursday it is predicted 78* and 7 knots.....hoping for more wind tho!
Kamikuza - 19-2-2012 at 05:37 PM
Regarding temps... depending on your gear (wetsuit etc) you might be surprised - as I've said, I've been out here in 4'C and while I was cold, I
wasn't in danger of hypothermia or even impaired function
Other days in NZ, I was shivering in the wind chill but (here's the important thing) once I was in/on the water and doing the kiteboarding, the effort
of all that work kept me warm.
LEIs will punish you if you try that in good wind
:o
