Power Kite Forum

[WANTED] Larger kite, unsure of size

XdisasterXdrewX - 17-2-2012 at 04:43 PM

I haven't been on the forum in well over 3 months (1 job + another new job + girlfriend + college = no free time)
In the odd even that I have a chance to go kiting, it seems like the wind is juuuuuust below what I like to ride with, so I've decided that maybe my 9m just isnt pushing it.

My question is:
What size kite (if any) would be good enough to fly in 11mph (or less) winds?
Also, what are the price ranges?

And if anyone has one, let me know :)

Thanks
-Drew

burritobandit - 17-2-2012 at 05:35 PM

There's a 8.5m Blade III for sale in this thread:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=21153

That should do the trick. Not a bad price either, but you might want to see how much it'll be to ship over here. Also, his prices are in AUS, not USD.. Currently:
1 Australian dollar = 1.0718 US dollars

XdisasterXdrewX - 17-2-2012 at 06:12 PM

would that work for me?
I'd prefer (if possible) something that would be good enough to pull a 180lb rider in 9mph wind.
My 9m fuel wont

burritobandit - 17-2-2012 at 06:26 PM

I think it would.. Your 9m Fuel is a C-kite so it has less projected area than the 8.5m Blade III does (if it's still for sale, someone sent a u2u).

Are you just using it for static flying/jumping or are you in a buggy or on an ATB?

XdisasterXdrewX - 18-2-2012 at 11:10 PM

I never really thought of that.

But I would be using it with my ATB.

furbowski - 19-2-2012 at 01:45 AM

Won't be much upwind in the mix at 9 mph, I struggle with 8m ace and smooth sand. Haven't yet tried my 12 ace, don't really want to as that kite isn't much fun to fly. 160# here. You could go for an old Blade III 10.5, but at 180# you would need a decent 10+ mph to get easy upwind, esp. if your conditions aren't perfectly smooth dry hardpack sand..

XdisasterXdrewX - 19-2-2012 at 11:03 AM

thanks alot. I think I am going to go with the PL Guerilla 10m.

When you guys say your weight, do you account for all of your gear?
I'm about 165 but i keep alot of stuff on me lol

BeamerBob - 19-2-2012 at 12:01 PM

It's not considered an ATB kite but in those winds on sand, I'd be grabbing for an 8.6m Reactor II. Maybe the Blade or another kite with a bit of lift would be your answer. I don't see a 10m arc being the tool for the job.

tridude - 19-2-2012 at 12:12 PM

................with a 8.5m BIII and BF buggy on packed sand in 5 to 7 mph winds Ive recorded 31mph on my GPS and can easily go upwind.....................ARCs are not the tools for low wind.................I have a 9.66m Quadrafoil Comp for sale.......

XdisasterXdrewX - 19-2-2012 at 12:30 PM

would the 10m Guerilla or the 8.5m BIII be ok for 9-12mph winds?
I'm sort of interested in it now because i don't have an ARC and would love to learn something new.

BeamerBob - 19-2-2012 at 12:33 PM

Those 2 kites aren't really a choice decision for the 11 mph winds you describe. They would actually compliment each other in that the arc would maybe not be working yet when you are blown out with the blade. 11 mph might be top end for you and the Blade 8.5. The Guerilla won't make good power till 15 and you could prolly go over 30 easy with it.

XdisasterXdrewX - 19-2-2012 at 12:42 PM

I guess I still dont totally understand this sport.
I just assumed that a 10m would be better with less wind, as compared to a 8.5m.

Please enlighten me.
Is it because of the type of kite or what?

BeamerBob - 19-2-2012 at 01:02 PM

Yes, the arc is designed with inefficiency as a performance bonus. It can absorb gusts well, yet has a low projected area compared to flat area. That 10m arc will catch the wind similar to a 4-5m fixed bridle but can take much more wind. A 10m is reaching "storm kite" status for water use. An 8m could take you over 35 mph winds on land if not really gusty.

burritobandit - 19-2-2012 at 01:06 PM

It has to do with how much of the kite's area is actually exposed to the wind and producing power. This is called 'projected area'.


Here's a Fuel c-kite (newer than yours, but still basically the same design). The kite is more 'closed' and more of the kite's surface area is dedicated to the wingtips. This is great in higher winds (its proper windrange) because the kite turns much faster, but in lower winds there is less kite catching wind to provide power.



Notice how 'open' the Blade III is. The canopy is exposed to the wind from wingtip to wingtip, pretty much. So it will produce more power in lighter winds because it is catching more wind. But the top end of the kite will be less because you'll end up getting overpowered and it will take longer to turn vs the Fuel.


edit: here's a guerilla for shape comparison:

XdisasterXdrewX - 19-2-2012 at 01:10 PM

Well my biggest thing right now is for lower winds.
My 9m Fuel works fine in anything from 12-19mph
So I guess I am looking for anything that would be just below that. (maybe 10mph+)

So would the Blade be best?

I am pretty unfamiliar with how different types of kites work in winds so I think I need to do a little more research

tridude - 19-2-2012 at 02:37 PM

the Blade will work fine but at 10/11 mph (at first) youre gonna be pushing the upper envelope of the useable wind range.....................but as your skill improves you will extend your useable range..................I can handle 10/11 in the buggy but i start to get alot of side pull and the rear breaks loose (too much power) however 12mph on my landboard is epic but I got to this point thru experience...................take the blade out in 8 mph to begin with, get comfy with the kite, improve your skillz and the 11/12 mph range will come......................good luck!

g00fba11 - 19-2-2012 at 02:49 PM

I don't have one for sale but, I just got in from a session on my 19m Venom. My 16 year old son who weighs about 130 had no issues controlling that kite in the winds we were flying. We were seeing 7mph to about 12mph today. We had to work the kite a bit to get going when the wind dropped but once going we were fine. It was quite hilarious to try to hold a line on a frozen lake in a buggy with barrows but we managed to get a couple of runs in.

Here is my 2 cents..... 19m Venom, 18m Guerilla 2 or 17m Bomba,....... All of these kites can also take you near 20mph depending on your experience.

I will be tossing up some video later of my son and I flying that 19m Venom......

RonH - 19-2-2012 at 06:33 PM

I have an older Reactor I 8.3 that I use in a buggy... 6 - 12mph for the wind range before you get a little light in the bug.

Could let it go fairly cheap.

Ron

XdisasterXdrewX - 20-2-2012 at 11:16 AM

U2U sent

wheresthewind? - 20-2-2012 at 11:48 AM

ive seen u post on this forum, and i know every kiter from toledo area--nobody there seems to know who you are..... u dont get out much do you? i would certainly have met you by now......

XdisasterXdrewX - 21-2-2012 at 11:11 AM

lol i havent really been out to maumee bay in at least 8 months.
I mostly just kite at Arrowhead park in Maumee.
Really the only kiters that I know are Mark and Ryan from RedSky.

XdisasterXdrewX - 21-2-2012 at 11:13 AM

@tridude
That is exactly what I am looking for.
Basically anything that will work under 11mph winds

kitesurfer - 21-2-2012 at 03:36 PM

i can't believer no ones has mentioned FLYSURFER. you might can grab a used Speed 15 for a grand.

XdisasterXdrewX - 21-2-2012 at 05:05 PM

Ive looked into them before but I am short of short on cash at the moment.
Mostly looking for something around the $300 (ish) price range for the time being

USA_Eli_A - 21-2-2012 at 05:06 PM

I have a 12m Frenzy for $400.00

XdisasterXdrewX - 22-2-2012 at 08:05 AM

does that come with the bag, bar, and lines?

ragden - 22-2-2012 at 08:37 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the BladeIII is a fixed bridle setup, right? This is not depower, like your fuel is.

Just something to think about. Depower gives you more flexibility in the wind range it can handle, but they are generally more expensive. Due to your budget contraints, you will probably be looking at a fixed bridle, or an older LEI.

Picking up a used Flysurfer Speed3 15m would probably work, but that is still going to be over a grand, easy. As long as you are not talking about using the same kite on water, fixed-bridle, or open-cell kites are fine. But if you want something you can use on the water, you will need either an LEI, or a closed cell foil (PL or Flysurfer, maybe a Neo).

XdisasterXdrewX - 22-2-2012 at 12:25 PM

Yes, it is a fixed bridel.
I was hoping to find some sort of depower kite but it probably won't work out with all of my conditions.
I am going to be using it on land with my ATB but I have only used my board with my Fuel (depower) and never with either of my brideled kites.
Ughhh, such a big decision.
I don't know much about the blade and I dont know how it is to ride with a fixed bridel kite

burritobandit - 22-2-2012 at 12:53 PM

Your sig shows you have a 6m Pansh Ace; have you not kited with that on your ATB yet? You should give it a shot next time winds permit to see how you'd like it.

If you want to stick with depowers, that 12m Frenzy should be big enough to do the job, or like ragden said, you could find an older used big LEI (14m-17m). Only problem with a big LEI is its weight, so you'll need probably a minimum of 4 to 5mph *steady* to get it and keep it in the air.. Hopefully you're in an area where light wind means *steady* lightwind that doesn't lull down to 0. Light wind in my area means the wind will completely die for a few seconds, a minute or two, or ten :/

You'd also have to worry about the possibility of crashing it. As long as you're not tomahawking it or crashing hard, you shouldn't really damage the kite. When I'm kiting with my ATB on land, I can feel if the wind is dying or whatnot and can gently self-land the kite and wait until the wind picks up to self-launch again. Note: the park I kite at has very soft grass with no stickers/sticks/rocks.

What kind of turf will you be mainly be kiting on?

XdisasterXdrewX - 22-2-2012 at 02:36 PM

I actually haven't used the 6m Ace with my board yet (which I should probably do before I buy another kite.) I just don't know how it feels using a bar with it.
8 or 9mph is usually the very least that I will go out

I am good with landing the kite gently. The ground is pretty crappy though. A lot of ground hog holes and some sticks but I've been good so far

USA_Eli_A - 22-2-2012 at 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XdisasterXdrewX
does that come with the bag, bar, and lines?



kite, bar, lines, assembled. no kite bag.

BeamerBob - 22-2-2012 at 06:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XdisasterXdrewX
I actually haven't used the 6m Ace with my board yet (which I should probably do before I buy another kite.) I just don't know how it feels using a bar with it.
8 or 9mph is usually the very least that I will go out

I am good with landing the kite gently. The ground is pretty crappy though. A lot of ground hog holes and some sticks but I've been good so far


The Ace does not like brake input so consider that when choosing a bar configuration. One that minimizes brake input might give the best results.

XdisasterXdrewX - 26-2-2012 at 10:24 PM

I guess I just assumed that all bridles kites did not like brake input. is that not true?

BeamerBob - 26-2-2012 at 11:41 PM

No not at all. Flexi Blades like brake input, as do Most HQ kites, PKD Combats and the PL Reactors and RIIs as well. All these kites (and others I'm sure) boost performance with the right amount of brake input, but the Ace just dies when you touch the brakes. I have flown 5 different sizes and they all responded to brake input with the same result.

XdisasterXdrewX - 27-2-2012 at 08:28 AM

I might as well get that 8.5m Blade III then.

Are there any huge differences between landboarding with a bridled kite and a LEI?

Soma - 27-2-2012 at 11:54 AM

+1 to try the Ace before anything else

A 6m will give you a decent pull if the ground is hardpacked.
The best session I had with a FB on my ATB was with my Twister IIr 5.6m and the wind was around 7-10mph. (I'm at 130 lbs)

I'm assuming that you have handles on it, right? So, just go out and try it. The brake input on handles is easy to control and minimize/ amplify when needed (since the Ace doesn't like it) or you can try it on a simple bar (no brake input on turns) or a cross-over bar (there's a ratio of maybe 70-30 front to brake turn).

After that, and depending on how you liked it, you may consider in getting something similar or not.

Regards
Joćo


P.S.: Just saw it --^^^^^^

When you say that you don't know how it react's (the Ace) with a bar, what do you mean? A normal Fixed Bridle bar or the bar from one of your Depowers???
If it is from your Depowers it won't work.

XdisasterXdrewX - 27-2-2012 at 12:00 PM

I know that it wont work with my depower bar (because of the brakes).
The only FB kites that I have ever used are my Pansh kites so I dont really understand how any type of FB kite would like any brake input whatsoever.
The Blade should break me in