Power Kite Forum

wow, talk about a series of mishaps&misteps

kitedelight - 22-2-2012 at 10:27 PM

ouch, this is a bit painful to watch...

this guy already received one pounding, so no need to rag on him further for a bunch of bad decisions. I post cause it's a good chance for new kiters to ask themselves what they would have done at each stage.



for you LEI flyers, do you have any idea why his kite collapsed like that? It seems to have just given way. I'm guessing low inflation, but don't know.

zero gee - 22-2-2012 at 11:18 PM

Holy Bad Choices Bat Man! One after another... after another. It's good that he did post this for sure. It really does show how things can go bad with the first bad judgment call.

Could be that he didn't pump it up enough to begin with. or the pressure dropped a bit sitting in the cold in the time it took for him to be ready. Could be that the extreme wind and gusty /shifty winds got on the wrong side of the kite. Probably a combo of these.

dylanj423 - 22-2-2012 at 11:23 PM

omg its like watching a horror movie and yelling at thescreen... WTF was he thinking?????

dylanj423 - 22-2-2012 at 11:28 PM

so many opportunites to pull the safety... many more to get outta the harness.....

wrapping line aroung his hand???????? where the F did he learn to do that????

hes lucky nothing worse happened!

Kamikuza - 23-2-2012 at 12:07 AM

Yeah, gusts will smack the LE like that - I've had it happen on my 16 too...
The interesting thing is that at no point in that was he ever really out of options, even with QR jamming etc. Just non-stop wrong decisions :o

Epic fails...
15m kite in 20knots - even my fat arse is getting worried about conditions by that point.
Relying on others to help.
Below the bar trim.
Above the bar safety.

I personally don't agree with launching trimmed for depower... IMHO if you launch right, it doesn't matter and if you're over-powered then you should be launching that kite :dunno:

Poor set up for self-launch - get the "downwind" tip around more to catch the wind.

It's also a good showcase for why I don't really like O-S handles on LEIs... loop o' death...

FFS secure the kite before unwrapping your hand!!!

furbowski - 23-2-2012 at 12:32 AM

Got to about 8 mins in before wondering if he had any kind of knife.... Never mentioned.

I don't have the skills / exp to comment constructively otherwise, all beaches and fixed bridles for me, a little time on the arcs but def not overpowered.

Totally agree with the horror movie WTF feeling of watching tho, I only watched to the end to see if a knife of some kind went into play.

PHREERIDER - 23-2-2012 at 07:07 AM

the gloves , visibility.! geez!

lei -- thats the overload reflex, line attachment points stays put, the backend lifts right in the center and rolls the kite forward enough for the LE to be blown down. bridlle/kite inversion is eminent in BIGGER kites. could have pinched the LE bladder in the fray

trying to pull the slide ring line AND being hooked in heavy air is asking for dismemberment or a broken back. guys lucky, ...he could get the radio out but not let go of the unit???

indigo_wolf - 23-2-2012 at 07:12 AM

Oddly appropriate....

The applicable portion begins at @2:00, but worth watching the whole thing because it's funny.



Hopefully, some of the takeaways from this video are:

  1. Listen to the little voice that tells you call it a day when it looks like Murphy really wants to spend the day b|tchslapping you. His friends didn't seem to have as many problem and I wonder if this was a matter of someone trying to "tough it out" (possibly above their skill level) rather than putting a damper on a group event.

  2. Safeties fail... especially when the control gear has repeatedly been dragged (through snow/sand). Hook knives can be your friend.... there have been at least two threads on it in the past:

  3. Never, never, never, never wrap your lines around your hand. His hands were Casper white when he took his glove off and he had to have his friend pack up his kite because he didn't have use of that hand. If the kite had fully powered up , he could have broken bones in that hand.

ATB,
Sam

shortlineflyer - 23-2-2012 at 07:24 AM

i was wondering why he didnt just cut the lines
did he have a knife
i always try to keep a knife with me when i fly

WELDNGOD - 23-2-2012 at 07:27 AM

Wow ,look how much safer that guy is flying that de-power. Good thing he wasn't on a Fixed Bridle,he surely would be dead by now.:evil::lol::dunno:

BeamerBob - 23-2-2012 at 10:52 AM

Yes, WTF several times. The brain is part of the equipment. His did not have the proper downloads to be using that kite in those conditions. I was code red just watching him from the point the kite launched itself. He got off easy for wrapping those lines around his hand. Mother nature could've just as easily relieved him of some fingers.

Even if the safety release wouldn't work, he could've leaned back and pushed the chicken loop off his hook. The DD was not under tension. With a kite that large and the winds double and I can't hold my ground, I would get rid of the kite and then go retrieve it on my own terms.

burritobandit - 23-2-2012 at 10:59 AM

At the beginning when he was just pulling the kite and expecting it to slide launch, it was clear he didn't know what he was doing or not well-versed in self-launching. He could have walked over to the side, putting the kite near the edge of the window and it would have launch much more easily..

But, I think it worked out for the best because had he actually launched the kite earlier (when the winds were more tame), jacked into his board, and started riding around, he probably would have been lofted or worse with the way the wind and gusts suddenly started rolling in HARD.

wheresthewind? - 23-2-2012 at 12:03 PM

scary stuff..... i feel bad for the guy, he's very lucky though, could have been worse..... i think he needs to practice in appropriate winds before he kills himself--and next time take a knife for god sakes--

kitedelight - 23-2-2012 at 12:16 PM

ha, great video reference. Nice.

wow, I would have assumed that a LEi collapsing like that meant a structural issues for sure, not just a overload reflex of the kite.

"Even if the safety release wouldn't work, he could've leaned back and pushed the chicken loop off his hook."
totally agree. Lots of uncalled for 'action' simply because his safety release pull was late, and he never tried simply unhooking to let the kite go to one line. This would be the step to try before going to the knife.

lots of stuff already brought up, few more things....
- why did he not wait 5 minutes to see what the new winds brought? Simple thing to do, new directions often mean a change in speed and quality of winds.
- sure the kite accidentally launched, but why bring the kite to 10 when he was planning on landing? Let it sit at the window edge sitting with one edge of the ground till his buddy takes it.

kitedelight - 23-2-2012 at 12:25 PM

speaking of knives, I was reading a post on harness knives a while back. It was a thread about single and double bladed knives - single bladed being the more common to be included on harnesses. But, a few guys on the thread did their own testing on old lines, and single bladed knives needed a lot of sawing action (= consuming much needed time) and pressure to get through the lines. Double bladed were much better, and apparently, a diving knife takes the cake. Something to think about, cause if it really comes to that, you want something that's gonna do the job *now*, not in 15- 20 seconds.

Drewculous - 23-2-2012 at 01:03 PM

just wow... why did he not pull the safety the minute that launched without his direct input!!!

i spook too easy with kites... if something is at all funny about ANYTHING i dump the kite... and why wrap the lines omg WHY!!



damn, that was really hard to watch... thanks for posting tho, forces all of us to examine our own practices and procedures... still was tough to watch

dandre - 23-2-2012 at 01:03 PM

I think a more pertinent question is why does he have a 15m?

cheezycheese - 23-2-2012 at 01:21 PM

His first mistake was leaving home without checking the weather.... :puzzled:

indigo_wolf - 23-2-2012 at 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kitedelight
speaking of knives, I was reading a post on harness knives a while back. It was a thread about single and double bladed knives - single bladed being the more common to be included on harnesses. But, a few guys on the thread did their own testing on old lines, and single bladed knives needed a lot of sawing action (= consuming much needed time) and pressure to get through the lines. Double bladed were much better, and apparently, a diving knife takes the cake. Something to think about, cause if it really comes to that, you want something that's gonna do the job *now*, not in 15- 20 seconds.


Could you post a picture of what you mean by a double-bladed hook knife? Are you talk about where there are two blades that cross each other to form a v-notch?

FWIW: Not a fan all the knives that come with the various harnesses. They are basically a (hollow) nylon frame that holds a single edges razor. In some cases, they are held in by screws and in some cases by rivets. Next to impossible to sharpen and in the case of the ones with rivets the blades can't be sharpened or replaced so it's basically a throwaway.

If you have one of the ones that came with a harness hold it in both hands and flex it... most have a fair amount of give. If they get stressed, it's possible for them to develop stress cracks that you won't notice.

Really prefer a slab o' metal that you can sharpen or send back to the elves. Most mainstream knife manufacturers (Gerber, Benchmade, etc) have lifetime knife sharpening services where for a nominal fee they will sharpen the knife back to factory fresh and have it back to you in a week or two.

Not overly worried about the cutting abilities of the aftermarket hook knives. :rolleyes: :smilegrin:



ATB,
Sam

wheresthewind? - 23-2-2012 at 02:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Drewculous
just wow... why did he not pull the safety the minute that launched without his direct input!!!

i spook too easy with kites... if something is at all funny about ANYTHING i dump the kite... and why wrap the lines omg WHY!!



damn, that was really hard to watch... thanks for posting tho, forces all of us to examine our own practices and procedures... still was tough to watch
i agree, just go to safety and start again, sure its a pain, but at least youre alive and kicking.....im still a noob with depowers and very wary,but this fellow needs to go over procedures until he can do it in his sleep, cause when #@%$#! hits the fan, you need fast reactions and the ability to keep your wits under pressure.....

kitedelight - 23-2-2012 at 02:59 PM

ya, that's the one, double blades to form the v.

no kidding, those hook knives look great.

lunchbox - 23-2-2012 at 03:25 PM

that's the knife I got (t-hook in the tire video)...hopefully I'll never have to use it but if I do, I won't hesitate to cut those lines!

Kamikuza - 23-2-2012 at 05:25 PM

From his other videos, it looks like he might be a bit of a beginner - or was at that stage...



Metal body with 2 blades in there - I spray mine with WD-40 or silicon spray when I remember. It's always right under the spreader bar...

dandre - 23-2-2012 at 05:25 PM

thanks for posting that, I was on the edge of my seat! Still thinking about it.

Bladerunner - 23-2-2012 at 05:55 PM

I like how you think Kitedelight ! I also like that you practice what you preach.

You just may have prevented me from getting on over my head that day at Sylvan. Taking that extra couple of moments to make sure that the sudden winds didn't become too much was the right thing to do. It wasn't a mistake but I fully appreciate you having me hold back !

Of all the crazy things that he was up to, watching him get sent down wind and keeping that kite high like that was almost too much to watch.

[ edit ] I agree that this guy deserves props for sharing his experience and giving us all a lot to think about.

Having a knife doesn't help much if you can't get at it ! I know of at least 1 occasion that a local nearly died because he could not get his knife out of that back pocket on Dakine harnesses. Gloves make it that much worse. I keep a hook knife tucked in my helmet with a pull ball for easy access since then.

Kamikuza - 23-2-2012 at 06:30 PM

Mines right under the spreader bar, in the pad itself - I can get it out with either hand easily.
One in the helmet is a good idea though :o

shaggs2riches - 23-2-2012 at 07:32 PM

We can be very appreciative that he was honest enough to post that video. I would think that there are lots of situations people get into but we never hear about them. Partly because many are to proud to admit mistakes, and the other part because they fear getting picked apart for it. Often from the guys who won't admit that they've made the same mistakes. You guys have reminded me though that I am in desperate need of a knife for my kit, I'm cautious in every other way but for some reason never got a knife. I've had the winds sneak up on me quickly on a few occasions, even when the forecast said differently. I'm also easily spooked by my kites so find myself quick to pull the release. I think the biggest thing is sometimes people get their head wrapped around trying to protect their gear before themselves. Like trying to hang onto a snowmobile that is sliding closer to an inevitable plunge off of a cliff. But at least this guy is lucky enough to learn from his mistake and can teach others what he did wrong. Also when he pointed out what his 15m was rated to fly in, I think he made another rookie mistake and didn't realize that those winds were for expert riders not beginners. Lots to ponder on with this one.

flyjump - 23-2-2012 at 07:45 PM

I really enjoy flying as powered as possible, but man pulling the safety needs to be an instinct. Nobody should be hesitant of popping that release at the first sign of trouble. I havn't seen an out of control video in a long time. Hopefully people are getting more safety consious. I can't imagine what wouldve happend to him if he was in a side shore breeze on water that turned into a complete offshore breeze. Uncontrolled loop out to see.

Don't be afraid to push the envelope, but your safety always need to come first. Its one thing if you make a mistake and fall and break your wrist or leg, but getting dragged through obsticales is sketchy

wheresthewind? - 23-2-2012 at 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by shaggs2riches
We can be very appreciative that he was honest enough to post that video. I would think that there are lots of situations people get into but we never hear about them. Partly because many are to proud to admit mistakes, and the other part because they fear getting picked apart for it. Often from the guys who won't admit that they've made the same mistakes. You guys have reminded me though that I am in desperate need of a knife for my kit, I'm cautious in every other way but for some reason never got a knife. I've had the winds sneak up on me quickly on a few occasions, even when the forecast said differently. I'm also easily spooked by my kites so find myself quick to pull the release. I think the biggest thing is sometimes people get their head wrapped around trying to protect their gear before themselves. Like trying to hang onto a snowmobile that is sliding closer to an inevitable plunge off of a cliff. But at least this guy is lucky enough to learn from his mistake and can teach others what he did wrong. Also when he pointed out what his 15m was rated to fly in, I think he made another rookie mistake and didn't realize that those winds were for expert riders not beginners. Lots to ponder on with this one.
great points, i was going to say the same things but didnt want to get attacked..... again, well said--bottom line for me is its a good lesson in safety though......

Kamikuza - 23-2-2012 at 09:47 PM

Quote:
didnt want to get attacked

Not here dude! :thumbup:

kitedelight - 26-2-2012 at 10:05 PM

wheresthe wind, not sure what you would be attacked for if you made the same points.

I *am* a bit curious why he posted it. Maybe a 'war story' for his non-kiter friends on how his day actually went.

Kamikuza - 26-2-2012 at 10:49 PM

Got to test my "less than one second" theory out with the Infinity - when things are going wrong, you can process a hell of a lot of options pretty quickly :lol: