Power Kite Forum - Need some high speed buggy help

Need some high speed buggy help

BeamerBob - 29-2-2012 at 05:49 PM

Ok, so for the first time today since moving here, I slipped away for a short session at Ivanpah on a weekday. Winds were forecast for upper teens with gusts in the lower 30s :rolleyes:

:ticking:.

I got there and just stood in the wind for a minute or so and decided it wasn't all that, so set up my 3.5 RII. Before I got harnessed, helmeted, and launched, this massive dust cloud came at me from the interstate. I could lean into it and it would hold me up. 3.5 stuffed back in the car :rolleyes:

. I decided to play it safe and got out a 2.2 RII figuring I certainly wouldn't get overpowered with it. I actually was overpowered when it would fold up, snap back to power, dart to the edge of the window, fold up. This is the stable RII I've come to love over the years? I guess even this kite has its limits in direction changes and gusts. After a segment of time going between my buggy and kite several times getting twists out of the lines only to have the kite relaunch on the brakes and twist up again, I finally got it flyable and limped about 2 miles back to the car unstropped, just handles in my hands with the kite high and heavy on the brakes to keep it still. (Wind was SW or SSW so today offered the longest runs possible on the lake).

When I got back, I set up with the least powerful, most stable kite I have, an HQ Toxic 2m. Thank goodness I had it. With this kite I was able to keep it going in a straight line even though it was surging back and forth in the gusts. It hangs back enough that it never folded up on me. When I would run across the smooth stuff SE of the car I could really kick it in, but where the wind would really blow the hardest, it was turbulent after coming over the retaining pond, so no joy over there. Run speeds kept creeping up as I gained more nerve in the crazy conditions getting 42, 46, then on a run that felt like it could've been 60 mph I got 52.8, a 1mph bump in my pb. I cruised back and forth another 8-10 miles or so and I decided not to tempt fate and made my way downwind back to the car allowing me to live to kite another day. I checked the winds when I got packed up and they measured 18 up to 35, with a 15 second gust to 42 mph. :wow: That's the highest winds I've ever flown a kite in.

My question to the masters (don't be shy, you know who you are) and those that have some lakebed experience, is: Are these conditions what I should expect to have to endure to get a fast run in? Are there times when you can get a smooth 25-30 mph where you can lock it in and knock down some real speed? I can't imagine running a racekite in winds that are changing speed and direction this much. I'm not sure if it was just the wrong day/conditions, or I need a lot more skill to go much faster.

Cheddarhead - 29-2-2012 at 07:04 PM

I'm not qualified to answer that, (never even sat in a bug), but sounds like a typical windy day here in the midwest:wee: Maybe there's only smooth winds on the weekends? :lol:

Hope you had a fun day anyway. Nice PB, I'm green with envy.

BeamerBob - 29-2-2012 at 07:12 PM

Yes Cheddar, I'm happy to have bumped up my pb with even 1 mph and I can pat myself on the back that I didn't get lofted, yanked out of the buggy, or have to ditch a kite, so "That which doesn't kill you...................... :thumbup:

Edit: Just noticed that my 1mph bump jumped up over 10 other riders on Popeye's list. The goals are page 1, 60 mph, 100 kph. Still toying with the tandem and 1 buggy/1 passenger records, along with the 24 hour distance record.

g00fba11 - 29-2-2012 at 07:16 PM

Jeesh..... to bad you don't have a 6 or a 9m Phantom....... I hear arcs like those really suck up the gusts...... you might want to think about adding an arc to your quiver sometime.......

I am no master...... and I really suck at this kite flying thing......still learning and trying to get a handle on it........ but something tells me those arc kinda kites do a good job in gusty conditions.....

I just can't remember who told me that or where I got that idea from...... hmmmmm sucks to get old and forgetful...... :lol:

WELDNGOD - 29-2-2012 at 07:18 PM

Lumpy wind is the nemesis of racekites BB,you know that. Not that the RII is a racekite, but it is knockin' on the door . .Do you ever get "clean" wind out there? I don't like to break out the racekites in lumpy wind,because of the danger of collapse and reopening. I hate that!
Racekites have a very narrow range between safe and" OMG were all gonna die!".So a 15 MPH gust would put you way overpowered. My #1 choice of kites in Wildwoods crazy winds has been the 2.5m Flexi "rage".This year it will be a PKD, I just don't know which one yet. 1.5m-3.3m Buster or 2.8 Century II or even the "evil" 2.4 or 2.9 Combat.

Hey BB , get yourself a 1.5 Buster soulfly. They are nice for high winds and they are stable. That would be my #1 choice for whiteknuckle buggyin' Built well enough to take in a 50 mph wind. All that ,and it looks sweet too!

WELDNGOD - 29-2-2012 at 07:19 PM

and congrats on the PB dude!:wee:

BeamerBob - 29-2-2012 at 07:35 PM

Goof I might know the guy that mentioned those arcs to you. You might consider picking up a few yourself. :yes:

WG I've been over 50 out there with both an Apex III 7.5 and my 3.5 Reactor II along with a 10m Synergy. All rides had the kite sitting beside me like they were on rails. Watch that video of me doing that rundown of Donald Gould on a smaller Method that he was trying out on a bar (and not working so well for him). The kite moves around just a bit but I'm running 35 or so I guess and don't have a fear in the world. The times I've hit over 50 with the 3.5, it felt fast but I could've handled more power and speed in the conditions. I'm just wondering if I'll ever get smooth fun winds that make 60 mph not significantly more scary that my other runs over 50 have been. WG we have a 1.6m and a 3m Buster. Maybe I need a few of the 2m and smaller units for nuking days.

Before coming to my first nabx, I'd have been rolling my eyes at anyone regularly breaking 50 mph and wanting more.

Drewculous - 29-2-2012 at 08:22 PM

18-35.... Those are good winds around here :lol:

Grats on the pb!

Not based on anything other than gusty, inland, nebraska winds... Some days are good, others... Not so much...

5 days a year it seems I get winds within a 5mph range (usually its 15+) and it doesnt seem to matter, some are 20-25, some are 60-65.... :lol:

I think the awesome runs are when you are all in, screaming fast, and a good push of air comes in (not a choppy punchy, direction changing gust) but a good increase in windspeed, just long enough to push you and your kite to its limit... Maybe a bit past... Then it all goes back to what it was...

If you have to fight your kite, and the wind, you cant get great speeds without great risks....

My 2¢
:D

Still jelly of your spot

WELDNGOD - 29-2-2012 at 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob
I'm just wondering if I'll ever get smooth fun winds that make 60 mph not significantly more scary that my other runs over 50 have been.

Mile a minute, with your butt 4" off the deck,on a not DOT approved vehicle w/ NO brakes. Yeah, that's pretty butt-puckering.:wee: LOL

g00fba11 - 29-2-2012 at 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob
Goof I might know the guy that mentioned those arcs to you. You might consider picking up a few yourself. :yes:

BB.... I think that's a good idea..... I think I will have to keep my eye out for one.....

BeamerBob - 29-2-2012 at 11:25 PM

WG I'm set at about 2"! :lol:

Drew, you know the scenario well to not have ridden here before. It's like you were here today and some other days that I got that extra little push. Big difference in guiding your kite and wrapping your hands around it's throat.

doublespeed360 - 1-3-2012 at 01:39 PM

way to go on your pb bob,last year i had the chance to go wicked faaaaast last year ,they were predicting winds 50 +mph in the afternoon.i was with the blo kart people so i said i better get out there before it gets really crazy.i was scared already so i went out on the 2 m flow took 1 run and said i can handle this ,went to my 2m jojo rm that when i did my fastest out there,gave it 2 more runs and that is when i went my fastest i was tucker out after that had lunch, the blo kart were in awe as i was ,then the wind died w t f, sat around till 4 then it started to blow again but not like earyler ,but what made it was nobody was in my way,i couldn't have done that with all the buggy people out there .i just got lucky, and have never got hurt out there which i'm surprize the way i slow down sometimes. i had my pb and i could take the rest of the week just having fun ,btw i'm 3 inches off the ground.paulo

Drewculous - 1-3-2012 at 01:55 PM

Bobby if anyone knows gusty wind its me!

+1 on the tiny arc... Are the new phannys going to be available in a 6m? I would guess a 9m would get a ton of use out there

BeamerBob - 1-3-2012 at 02:05 PM

I guess its cool to say now that it will come in 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18m, with at least 1 24m . Yes the 9m should be the goto size with the 6 being the ultimate gusty high speed weapon on the lakebed.

kiteboyza - 1-3-2012 at 02:29 PM

your best speeds will come with winds around 30mph mark with some decent gusts to ''turbo boost " your speed. When you are already at speed, lets say around 45mph a gust will push you that extra 5 or 6 clicks more. The art of getting the kite in the right spot quick enough to use this boost will come with time. There is a fine line between using this boost to go forward or get dragged sideways.

Oh and for the record, most top speeds in the UK were done on small 2m Brooza PKD's

USA_Eli_A - 1-3-2012 at 03:20 PM

what are your questions? you seemed to do 95% everything right.

I'd say, start small and work into bigger sizes.

Were you alone? Did anyone know where you were going?

...side note, I didn't read the whole thread, just your post.

BeamerBob - 1-3-2012 at 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by USA_Eli_A
what are your questions? you seemed to do 95% everything right.

I'd say, start small and work into bigger sizes.

Were you alone? Did anyone know where you were going?

...side note, I didn't read the whole thread, just your post.

Thanks Eli and boyza. I'm getting better about kite size choice now. Conditions changed while I was setting up the 3.5 and I recognized it without even launching. As I've thought about the day, I realize no kite is going to fly great when the winds are jumping from the high teens to lower 40s. Eli I was by myself (you're the first to ask) but several people knew I was there and my son was at home and we spoke frequently. No contact meant emergency.

My question and wonderment is what conditions are like when its right to go for a 60+ mph run. Yesterday wasn't it.

bigkid - 1-3-2012 at 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteboyza
Oh and for the record, most top speeds in the UK were done on small 2m Brooza PKD's

BeamerBob - 1-3-2012 at 06:40 PM

Eli, I'm interested in the 5% too. I listen closely to advice from those that have been where I want to go.

DAKITEZ - 1-3-2012 at 06:56 PM

of all days you should have been on a de-power I think this was the day.

gusts from 18mph - 42 mph ??? If it were steady 18-20mph you would have chosen one kite ... if steady 40 -42mph you would have chosen a totally different kite. I think your getting heat stroke from living in the desert too long :lol:

Your trying to overthink the obvious ... the winds sucked that day

BeamerBob - 1-3-2012 at 07:17 PM

Yes, the wind did suck and maybe my only depower option was the 5m Apex. The forecast wasn't for the crazies I ended up with so I sized for 18 with gusts to upper 20s and got something different. Live and learn.

DAKITEZ - 1-3-2012 at 07:25 PM

keep this up and I will have to get someone to repo your apexx :rolleyes:

BeamerBob - 1-3-2012 at 08:05 PM

I learn every day I ride! I sure am glad I got that thing paid for. :wee:

WELDNGOD - 1-3-2012 at 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteboyza
There is a fine line between using this boost to go forward or get dragged sideways.

Very fine indeed...

USA_Eli_A - 1-3-2012 at 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob

Quote:

Yes, with 60+ with today's gear isn't very hard to do. So many people are going for personal bests.

I've been riding buggies since I was 14 yrs old, since spring/summer 1994. As usual, under the protective wing of my mom and dad. So I present these two stories as basis for this though process that will conclude this reply.

The first Playa I rode was El Mirage, using a Quadra-foil C-3 (5.5m ish) , C-2 (4.4m ish), and C-1 (2-3m ish). During this event, there were road rash injuries in this one event alone, more than I've ever heard of before since. The funny thing was, the most experiences guys got them. Thanks to mom and dad I got this experience. I walked away no injuries, huge pile of worn out tires, not realizing how much they influenced my riding at this event.

My second lake be experience at the age of 17 was in West Africa, this is where I experienced my first "road rash". Ran my front tire through a small ditch at 30mph or so, and slid on my right side, no shirt, wearing shorts and no helmet. Lost skin, toe nails, blood, ew. Btw, in a 3rd world country. Lots of medical attention for two months after I returned to the U.S. Thanks to my mom, dad, and Jeff Howard pitching me to Brian Smith at Active People, I got this experience. The big diff is that I literally threw out everything they had tough me about safe riding, just because they weren't around, and I wanted to be like the other guys.

So, Man, I hated being told what to do by my parents, but I have learned everything from them regarding my situational awareness of the conditions at hand.

I'm not trying to lecture you or tell you what to do, just passing on the pep talk I got from my dad the very first time I experienced Ivanpah, which was wet, so we moved to Roach and road under high voltage power lines instead.

1st, the surface at Ivanpah/Roach allows for smaller kites, hardly any resistance, so start out small.

2nd, expect your conditions, expect nasty gusty turbulent winds out there. You could be cruising 15-20mph on your 2m, and a wind gust of 30kts comes by, and you're up to 50-60mph in you buggy. SO, expect it to be nasty gusty turbulent wind. IF IT'S STEADY PERFECT TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. It is too good to be true.

Re-cap, IF ITS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT IS! Certainly there will be exceptions.

3rd, You don't have anything to prove to anyone!

To conclude this blah blah blah I leave this.
You state of mind out there is everything. Complacency is not an option, and is often abused by the most experienced riders.
Choose what you ride wisely. You have nothing to prove to me!

SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE BEING VERY SMART, JUST KEEP IT UP!

After 18 years of riding kite buggies, I still fear complacency will set is some day...

BeamerBob - 1-3-2012 at 10:01 PM

Thanks for that Eli. I miss your regular contributions here.

I try to be very aware of conditions and adapt to them. The other day was only the second crappy wind day I've had out there and it was the worst of the 2. Most days, winds are great for my 3-5m kites and vary little from the base wind, just enough for the "boost" mentioned above.

I have a desire to take advantage of opportunities to go fast and enjoy chasing goals for speed, but also love the days where you can put 60-80 miles on just cruising at 25-35. One day last week the wind was really low and I just worked on upwind turns because that is what the conditions were good for.

I've said since I got into this "I'm always the student" and so far, I've learned just enough along the way as a pushed myself to not get dragged out of the buggy out there. I'm hyper conscious of keeping the kite from getting behind me and if I don't feel like I can control the kite enough to prevent that, I go back to camp and stop or change kites. I think now I understand that some days you just shouldn't go out at all. I look forward to sharing the playa with you soon.

soliver - 2-3-2012 at 01:29 AM

I think the very wise pokitetrash once said to me "... any day I come back with all my bones still on the inside is a good day..."
or something to that effect. :smug:

I'm sure you learned something from the experience.

I'll be getting a bug soon and hope to maintain the bones on the inside part of it.

I enjoy your posts Bob

popeyethewelder - 2-3-2012 at 03:32 AM

Well done Bob, up 10 places too, makes that 1mph all the more sweeter

What a great feel good thread this is

ripsessionkites - 2-3-2012 at 10:29 AM

its like hit and miss ... you're never going to have perfect winds / smooth and steady if you want top speed.
the right place at the right time and just going out to get it done. most of us don't live on Arie time. if the wind blows at anytime he's up.
most riders will tell you, getting to 100km is the easy part ... adding the extra km/h is the hard part.

you have to tune your kites, it doesn't come out the bag ready to get you to first place. almost all kites have a top end, but only you can change that. (Dieter / KiteBoyz is going to give me hell for spilling out secrets again).
the RII 2.2m you have was also the same kite I used that go me to 9th place. however if you lay my bridle line vs your bridle line they are completely different. i have knots all over the place.

if I switched to a race would I have gone faster, probably but I like the punch feeling.
on the flip side I see why the riders like the twinskin like the phanny ... its a gust munching kite. I watched AJ on his Phanny 6m and a PL XR+, and he had very little drift.

anyways get out there and ride, the more riding in that wind condition the more comfortable it will be.

thats my rant.

BeamerBob - 2-3-2012 at 11:05 AM

Ricky my 2.2 RII IS your kite! In case you haven't tuned the one I have, to get mine to not be so prone to shooting forward and folding up, would I just add a knot to the C bridles to start?

ripsessionkites - 2-3-2012 at 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob
Ricky my 2.2 RII IS your kite! In case you haven't tuned the one I have, to get mine to not be so prone to shooting forward and folding up, would I just add a knot to the C bridles to start?

lol, i can't remember I've had a total of 3 RII 2.2m size

what custom colour is it?

ill measure out my custom Bleu/Black one for you.

ripsessionkites - 2-3-2012 at 11:44 AM

also the production version of the RII is Mirai but I choose to get them all in Chikara instead.

BeamerBob - 2-3-2012 at 11:55 AM

Yeah, I bought the 2.2 and 3.5 from you at the same time. Custom color Red and grey and Chikara fabric and no knots in the bridles. I need to get cracking on it and dial it in.

RedSky - 2-3-2012 at 07:48 PM

You got the best buggy in the world, the best location the the world and probably the best wind in the world.

What's you're problem ? :D

You already know the 6m Phantom works out there.

Congratz on the new Pb btw

ripsessionkites - 2-3-2012 at 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RedSky
You got the best buggy in the world, the best location the the world and probably the best wind in the world.

What's you're problem ? :D

You already know the 6m Phantom works out there.

Congratz on the new Pb btw

the nice way of saying ... GROW SOME, BRO!!!

just ride

BeamerBob - 3-3-2012 at 12:25 AM

Quote:

Order is already placed! :thumbup:

:roll: With a 9 and 12 as backup just to make sure.

coreykite - 7-3-2012 at 01:49 PM

Hey Sailors,

Aahhh... Sweet Ivanpah.

Living on the California coast in the 90's. I had smooth and steady.
Average day was 12-16 mph on-shore breeze with occasional gusts to 18.

Now I live in the desert and my day is like nutz!
Starts with 15-25 mph with gusts to 40.
How does one rig for that?

The years in the desert have taught a few lessons...
Those gusty days will often smooth out the last couple of hours before sunset.
Big difference between summer winds from the southwest and the chilly north winds in the winter.

But gusty winds are a way of life nowadays.
That's why I am heading to Huntington Beach this weekend.
Need to feel my toes in the sand and those blissful sea breezes.

Safen Up! Buggy On!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

Morrie Williams - 7-3-2012 at 04:38 PM

Corey: Is Steve Kent still at Huntington?