Has anybody testing Phantom 2's, tried them on water yet ?
Especially the larger sizes 15-18-24 ?
Any kind of feedback is appreciated.
flyjump - 26-3-2012 at 10:34 AM
I don't think they will work WELL on the the water. They don't have that initial grunt like the charger and they need speed to .really get them to
come alivemartinipro - 26-3-2012 at 10:36 AM
I've been wondering about this...
Should we expect a new Arc that would be water friendly? Or is PL forcing kite-boarders to switch over to tubes?BeamerBob - 26-3-2012 at 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by martinipro
I've been wondering about this...
Should we expect a new Arc that would be water friendly? Or is PL forcing kite-boarders to switch over to tubes?
Don't forget the Charger. We are already seeing protophotos of the Charger II under development.PHREERIDER - 26-3-2012 at 11:12 AM
i did not get a go on the water with it YET . but the a couple hours i had on 15m i think, after the strap adjustments, i would have jumped right on
it without much thought.
definitely for an experienced arc rider on the water (15mph +) would do well.
for the beginner WHO NEEDS the grunty hi window tug, maybe not so good.g00fba11 - 26-3-2012 at 11:12 AM
hopefully it will have the floaty goodness of a Bomba the grunt of a VII with the turning characteristics of a Synergy......and reverse launch of an
SARC......
sounds good to me......... I'll take one...... Purple, Turquoise and Black, with Black under belly...... I don't want to see no white...... flyjump - 26-3-2012 at 11:19 AM
It feels like a scorpion but with more depower better upwind better turning lighter bar pressure and a smoother lift and not as much float. Its a
fast turnermdpminc - 27-3-2012 at 10:34 AM
checked it out , krug giving the low down. good advice on charger characteristics.
we were in 10-15mph and straps all loose PH2 was very soft responsive and power build. certainly MORE air would firm it up. BUT we reset the straps
tight on the tips and 1/2 on the center it really snapped quicker turns and gave insta pop for nice jumps. by that adjustment alone tells me the
unit has a huge range . this was 15m. i would place inthe same power range as the 15m charger, 15m SYN, 13m Vii and 15m phantom. a guess at the
PA i would say 9.5-10m. a small one pulley vpc thing makes for quick turns WITHOUT the extra momentum spin as with a charger. which is spot on .
i think this maybe be the best vpc rig made yet and ADAM and i speculated if ran with otu the vpc would be fine just a tad slower turning, with a
respect larger radius as well.
i have POV vid of the Ph2 (Ph X...whatever?)up wind haul about 2 miles then a blasting dwnwind burn. maybe get the vid tonight if the ENE chokes out
. then you can judge yourself ...quick & nimble, speedy power which fits my needs land and water.lad - 27-3-2012 at 01:43 PM
Curiously, the PII[s upwind ability is only mid-rated on PL site performance chart.
Yet. Popeye pointed out how Feyd's video has him flying his PII proto almost directly dead upwind over ice...flyjump - 27-3-2012 at 02:13 PM
It had a great upwind ability. I was shocked at how much it wanted to go to the edge of the window, and it builty up power very quickly if you had
the space to get moving.
Just like phree said, the simple one pulley vpc is great! i really loved it compared to the 3 pulley charger bridle system. It was very simple and
clean which is very important to me.
it also had a very good autozenith. i know the chargers were somewhat twitchy, but this thing was very smooth. incredibly stable!!!
One thing that i noticed about it that was different from the original phantom is that turns really fast with little effort. it has a very light bar
pressure feel to it compared to other arcs but still had the arc feel. when you get moving it would have the park and ride feature, but it would very
easily move to the zenith if you let it. I was on the 18m though. Angus was saying that it would pop behind him and almost snatch him out of the
seat if he didn't watch it. but at that point phree and I had them set up for fast turning and airtime.
as much as i hated the blue and red colors they look much better in person. Looking up through the top skin they almost look like camoflodge. the
blue kite has a grey bottom skin which was different that the other arcs i've seen
I thinnk these kites have a huge range! they feel very tunable, but i wish we had a little more time to tinker with settings so we could see what
works. of course we will do a full review with photos very soon!shaggs2riches - 27-3-2012 at 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by flyjump
It feels like a scorpion but with more depower better upwind better turning lighter bar pressure and a smoother lift and not as much float. Its a
fast turner
I would love to see a Scorpion 2 come out of the wood works some day. Just sayin'.
Back on topic where would you rate it as an ATB engine?????Could you see yourself owning one for what you do or would you still favor the Charger???
How about low end??? Do you need a 100% inflation or are we looking at something similar to the Synergy/Charger??? Sorry for the many questions.flyjump - 27-3-2012 at 07:24 PM
That's a good question shaggs. It doesn't have the imidiate grunt but when you.get up.to speed its awesome. It has a very smooth lift but not the
hangtime of the charger. I actually really enjoyed it. Its very simplistic and that is refreshing. Its a great Atv and snowkite engine. Just keep in
mind its higher aspect so it likes to.stick to.the edge of the windowshaggs2riches - 27-3-2012 at 07:29 PM
Sounds like it would do best in an area that is open allowing it too run its legs. Might not do well in the small parks that I've been playing in then
not much time to build momentum before you have to turn around.flyjump - 27-3-2012 at 07:33 PM
Exactly. Its great for those long open runs but probably not the best for shorter less open spotstridude - 1-4-2012 at 06:22 AM
I had the opportunity to take the 15m P2 on the water but flew the Escape instead. Phree seemed to think that 13/14 mph at 170 lbs was doable on the
15m. I use to ride my 15m P1 in 15kts at 195lbs and was powered enough to tack upwind and jump....................relaunch on the P2 would be easier
due to lower AR and the auto zenith I observed was very good (easier board starts). Could be out out of bounds here but Im thinking with the new tube
lineup, PL is promoting the P2 for land use. But as we all know, twinskins work well on water..........................Feyd - 1-4-2012 at 05:41 PM
Having spent a lot of time on the Phantom 2 from protos to production I just want to chime in.
First I disagree with the assumption that the Ph2 needs a lot of space to shine. A lot of the areas I ride in are limited in space and I've found
that the Ph2 has performed awesome in those areas. I had the 15m up to 64mph in just under a 1/4 mile sprint. She does like to run but once powered
and across the window it's been my expirience that is all you need. She's fired up at that point. But if you do have room she will run. And she'll
run stable and fast.
In regards to the upwind. The Ph2 goes upwind better than any Arc I've flown other than the F-Arc. I'm not sure why they rated it as an intermediate
upwinder on the new PL scales. I'm not sure of what they do to determine that but I can say they must not base it solely on how it performs for us on
the ice. I can only assume that they base it on the abilty of non-ice/snow riding. The abilty to maintain the edge is less on dirt or grass and the
result is less upwind effectivness. As was pointed out, on the ice she climbs upwind like crazy and the video clearly illustrates this.
I've not officially flown them on water. But I have had the 15m out on flooded ice 2' deep and was able to get planing on powder skis with no
problems at all. I can only imagine that when I get out on a board it will be easier and I have no apprehension about the Ph2 on water. Although
it's not clear yet if they are "designed for water".:wink2:
I have not spent much time messing with the internal settings as I prefer them all loosey goosey. When I have played with them I've found you can get
very "Chargeresque" flight qualities out of the Ph2. And, with the 24m I've found in very light winds that if you max out the center strap and trim
slightly you can get some good power out of her when prior to adjusting, she would barely pull. And the backstall on launch was minimal.
Power delivery, can be like Flyjump said. The Ph2 doesn't have the immediate agressive power delivery of the Charger, instead it's a smoother
throttle up. That said, cranking the internals will produce faster power build up as will working the kite (like downlooping for the powerstroke).PHREERIDER - 2-4-2012 at 05:58 PM
i felt the chargersque in the P2, without the drag! P2 seemed to sprint and pop fine, at least the 15m did in 10-12mph
a 12m in 25-30 thats what i need. rockin' some loops full bore ...that'll be some shineFeyd - 3-4-2012 at 03:32 AM
YES! DUH, Phree I can't believe I didn't think of it that way. Like the Charger without the drag. And I agree, she will sprint. Sometimes I would
catch myself sheeting in a little too much and she'd sit back in the window and wouldn't speed up the way I'd like but just let the bar out and she
zips right through to the edge and hauls the mail.
I'm really impressed with the 12m. I found that I rode the 12m almost as much as the 15m this season. Part of it could be due to the lack of snow and
not needing the 15m as often but I think there is enough overlap that the 12m was enough kite.
Towards the end of the season I was riding the 12m with 40m lines and it was great.Feyd - 7-5-2012 at 03:34 AM
Just an update. I got word from Pepijn this morning and he said that the Ph2 is completely good to go on water. No difference in production form the
other Arcs. Unlike the Ph1 which was designed strictly for land.
So if you have a Ph2 and want to try it on the water I guess you're good to go!
:DBladerunner - 7-5-2012 at 06:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by flyjump
It feels like a scorpion but with more depower better upwind better turning lighter bar pressure and a smoother lift and not as much float. Its a
fast turner
Doesn't this kind of describe the Synergy ?Feyd - 7-5-2012 at 06:02 PM
HAHAHAHAAAHAHAAAAAAA!
No.
I never felt that the Syn could out do the Scorp in upwind or match it's float. The Syn always felt more like a V2 to me with a lighter bar pressure
and faster turn rate. From what I've seen from watching others jump (not myself jumping) the Ph2, it's float is easily on par with the Scorp if not
better.
I think the bar pressure is the same as the Syn which stands to reason as they share the same VPC. But to be honest I haven't flown a Syn in quite a
while now so I could be wrong.Wolfpaklv - 9-7-2012 at 01:06 AM
I have been riding on the Phantom 2 18m and 15m and having a lot of fun on the water at Lake Mojave. Definitely recommend them for water.PHREERIDER - 9-7-2012 at 06:21 AM
i did get this unit on the water during JIBE . 15m slightly underpowered, but totally fine. for my size a little more breeze would have made it
business as usual.mdpminc - 18-7-2012 at 05:20 PM
Finally I had a chance to try my P2-15 on water.
Control: 60cm bar w/27m lines, safety off 1 main line, trim all out (kite stalls when fully pulled in).
Internal straps: all loose
Conditions; Long Point beach on Lake Erie, WSW, 15-18knts, ~2ft waves.
Board: OR Mako 150 Wide.
Skill: Beginner-water (~60hrs) / Intermediate-snow (400hrs+), 205lbs
Most behaviours were compared against the Venom1 16m and Gaastra Spider 12m (LEI bow), which I used on water in similar conditions.
I felt under-powered almost all the time and just could not go up wind (perhaps lack of skills here). P2-18 would have been perfect here.
I still did several down-winders chasing the waves, btw Mako is great for waves, but in these winds it felt like riding a plow upwind!!!
Overall observations:
- fast turning, on a 60cm bar it moved like a stunt kite but also I did not feel at any point, that I was not in full control of it, wow.
It seems faster than the Spider and way faster than V16.
- pulling power felt less than the Spyder, power develops fast but smooth, definitely no Charger explosive on-off
- launching was as easy as Venoms (minimum 3/4 inflated) same for self-landing (stopper ball set at 0.5m more more than the kite span)
- water re-launch; yes I did crash it, on purpose, LE down, I did let it fold into clam tugged on rear line and off it went again, as easy as V16.
btw Autozenith works great, very light while riding, but as soon as one lets go off the bar, it does its thing, does not hunt for Zenith as much as
Charger does.
"I came in to have a drink of water and another kiter (LEI) approached me and commented on how stable it was, as I talk to him for few minutes (and to
really ham it up, as I talked with him, I've made an effort not to look at the kite, why, because it was where I left it, @ the zenith ! )
- downwind drift was ok, but one needs to watch the speed, not faster than wind speed itself, otherwise it did start to open too much, beach was busy
so I passed on experimenting if and when does bow-tie (next time )
I did not have a chance to play with the straps, wind die down and I switched to Ovando 13m, I just wish that P2-24m I ordered in March had arrived,
it would have been great to review it in 12-14knts.
How about that a new PL Twinskin that does not require expert piloting skills (stab :moon: at CH here).
I would recommend this kite for water or for landboarding to a beginner rider anytime (just learn to self-launch well before one hit busy beaches)
For a rider my size on a low wind board, bottom end would be ~12knts, but I am sure this kite would really rocks in 20+ knots:roll:.
Next time; marginal winds with a low wind race board.........
)