Power Kite Forum - any tips on how to take a fall as safe as possible?

any tips on how to take a fall as safe as possible?

dannyaq - 7-4-2012 at 10:40 PM

So I busted my head from a bad fall and i'm sidelined for a while. Looking for tips on how to avoid this situation again. Anyway, here's what happened or skip to the bottom if you don't want the long narrative.

Had my trainer kite for almost a year and finally bought a new 5.6 twister. Took it out 2-3 times in real light winds so i could get used to flying 4 line handles as opposed to a 3 line bar. Light, to the point where i had trouble just keeping it in the air. Then a real windy day comes along and I'm all excited to try out my new toy, finally get some air time. Now the wind forcast said the average wind speed was at the kite's maximum suggested flying range with gusts above it. but I decide I'll go out and see if I can handle it anyway. Mistake #1

So I get to the park, flying solo and quickly realize its too much wind to handle. I can't bring it to zenith without getting dragged, so I start just butt sliding since I can't stand with the kite. and even like this, walking back up wind to ride again was a struggle. So i contemplate if I should stay or pack it up, I decided to stay. Mistake #2

So after a while, the wind dies down a little and I can actually get the kite to zenith and stand up. So I fool around a bit and when a gust comes I get lofted a little bit a couple times, so I'm thinking alright, totally worth coming out for.

Then I get lifted slightly and instead of the gentle glide down, I'm sort of staying at the same height (not very high) and I think should I just let go or hang on and ride this long glide? I was a little worried since I expected to be going down at this point, but it was maybe a foot off the ground. I decided to hang on. Mistake #3

So then I hear a rush of wind and half a second later i am gaining altitude and speed and I'm just thinking oh crap. Very quickly I think, should I let go and face the dangers of a straight down fall from too high (probaly busted ankle or knee) or hang on and deal with too much forward momentum? I decided to hang on and I'm trying to redirect the kite overhead, but the wind is blowing hard and I do a horrible job of it. Its at like 45 degrees from the top and to the left by the time I hit the ground. I'm thinking I need to tuck and roll or something, but by this point I'm kind of panicked and simply try to just stick the landing like its a regular controlled landing, but I'm going in way too fast and whip forward hitting my head. I don't think I let go until after I hit the ground either.

I felt pretty ok considering what happened for a moment. Then my memory gets fuzzy I was definitely very confused for like 15 -20 minutes after that. I managed to call a friend to come pick me up but I was told i was rambling and making little sense. Didn't go to the doctor since I got a new job and health benefits havn't kicked in yet, but I'm prtty sure I got a concussion with the way I was so confused.

This whole time I have been wondering if I make a good decision in deciding to hang on instead of letting go and taking a straight down drop? I'm not really sure how high I was. High enough that is was scary, but it was hard to judge since I was focused on trying to control the kite and I'm not used to looking down on the gorund. So anyway at what height would you guys say it starts to be a bad decision to let go?

and if I have a landing where I am "coming in hot" how should I take it? I imagine its best to let go of the handles just before touching down, right? but what would work, rolling like you see people doing when they jump out of a moving car? Riding it out on your knees like skaters do on a ramp? landing on your butt like a wrestler takes a jump? hanging on but putting your legs back so you get superman dragged and prevent your head from slamming down?

All i know is you want a low center of gravity so you don't whip your head to the ground. In the mean time, I'll be buying a helmet. For that matter what kind of helmet is used for kiting? I was going to get a skateboard type helmet unless something else works better.

bigkid - 7-4-2012 at 11:59 PM

I got to the 2nd paragraph and stopped reading. If you have to ask such a question, you don't deserve an answer, but I will give you one anyway.
This is an extreme sport, people have been badly hurt and will pay the price for the rest of there lives. Some have been killed.
How can I play Russian Roulette so I don't kill myself?
So if you have to ask the question, don't fly kites.

herc - 8-4-2012 at 12:29 AM

You should ALWAYS release handles if your get lofted unexpectedly .
the twister is a bad ass kite. it can get angry.
even i got careless once and fooled around with a 7.7 sqm twister in wrong conditions. i made a few controlled pendulum jumps, just for fun. but at the onset of the last one, a gust came across and the twister lofted me like an elevator. i immediately released the handles and that saved me. i had a rather hard landing, but i could roll off on the ground and got away just scared.

as such unexpected lofts could happen to everyone (thermal updrafts; dust devils in hot summer !!) maybe we all should practice the

PLF :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_landing_fall

and.. always wear a helmet, especially if the wind is blowing..

alasdair macleod - 8-4-2012 at 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dannyaq
So I busted my head from a bad fall and i'm sidelined for a while. Looking for tips on how to avoid this situation again. Anyway, here's what happened or skip to the bottom if you don't want the long narrative.

Had my trainer kite for almost a year and finally bought a new 5.6 twister. Took it out 2-3 times in real light winds so i could get used to flying 4 line handles as opposed to a 3 line bar. Light, to the point where i had trouble just keeping it in the air. Then a real windy day comes along and I'm all excited to try out my new toy, finally get some air time. Now the wind forcast said the average wind speed was at the kite's maximum suggested flying range with gusts above it. but I decide I'll go out and see if I can handle it anyway. Mistake #1

So I get to the park, flying solo and quickly realize its too much wind to handle. I can't bring it to zenith without getting dragged, so I start just butt sliding since I can't stand with the kite. and even like this, walking back up wind to ride again was a struggle. So i contemplate if I should stay or pack it up, I decided to stay. Mistake #2

So after a while, the wind dies down a little and I can actually get the kite to zenith and stand up. So I fool around a bit and when a gust comes I get lofted a little bit a couple times, so I'm thinking alright, totally worth coming out for.

Then I get lifted slightly and instead of the gentle glide down, I'm sort of staying at the same height (not very high) and I think should I just let go or hang on and ride this long glide? I was a little worried since I expected to be going down at this point, but it was maybe a foot off the ground. I decided to hang on. Mistake #3

So then I hear a rush of wind and half a second later i am gaining altitude and speed and I'm just thinking oh crap. Very quickly I think, should I let go and face the dangers of a straight down fall from too high (probaly busted ankle or knee) or hang on and deal with too much forward momentum? I decided to hang on and I'm trying to redirect the kite overhead, but the wind is blowing hard and I do a horrible job of it. Its at like 45 degrees from the top and to the left by the time I hit the ground. I'm thinking I need to tuck and roll or something, but by this point I'm kind of panicked and simply try to just stick the landing like its a regular controlled landing, but I'm going in way too fast and whip forward hitting my head. I don't think I let go until after I hit the ground either.

I felt pretty ok considering what happened for a moment. Then my memory gets fuzzy I was definitely very confused for like 15 -20 minutes after that. I managed to call a friend to come pick me up but I was told i was rambling and making little sense. Didn't go to the doctor since I got a new job and health benefits havn't kicked in yet, but I'm prtty sure I got a concussion with the way I was so confused.

This whole time I have been wondering if I make a good decision in deciding to hang on instead of letting go and taking a straight down drop? I'm not really sure how high I was. High enough that is was scary, but it was hard to judge since I was focused on trying to control the kite and I'm not used to looking down on the gorund. So anyway at what height would you guys say it starts to be a bad decision to let go?

and if I have a landing where I am "coming in hot" how should I take it? I imagine its best to let go of the handles just before touching down, right? but what would work, rolling like you see people doing when they jump out of a moving car? Riding it out on your knees like skaters do on a ramp? landing on your butt like a wrestler takes a jump? hanging on but putting your legs back so you get superman dragged and prevent your head from slamming down?

All i know is you want a low center of gravity so you don't whip your head to the ground. In the mean time, I'll be buying a helmet. For that matter what kind of helmet is used for kiting? I was going to get a skateboard type helmet unless something else works better.

First buy a fecking helmet!
Any kite shop will sell you good one!
And fecking wear it!
See if you can find some local kiters that you can fly with.
Practise using your killers ever time you fly the kite it will
become second nature!
If you think wind is to gusty or to strong go home don't take
Risk it's better to fly another day!
I'm not putting down on you !
Just don't want to hear that another guy got hurt very bad or kill!

WELDNGOD - 8-4-2012 at 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alasdair macleod

Quote:

What Alasdair said!
You should already have a helmet. Protective gear first! These ain't stunt kites. It's a POWER kite. It can develop more power than you can handle,it just takes the right wind. Don't get yer feelins hurt by what Jeff said.He might be havin a bad pain day.( He was nearly killed by a 2.4 Combat and a full face helmet.) Yes kiting is EXTREME ,you can be seriously injured and /or killed.( I had to have a shoulder rebuilt.)
If I was lofted higher than I felt safe to drop,I'm gonna fly that kite baby! Landing... Hopefully tuck and roll,but would depend on what kind of lofting i.e. straight up or being propelled superman style at speed!

welcome to the best place on the web for help and info about POWERKITING

Have fun,Be safe WG:saint:

dannyaq - 8-4-2012 at 07:35 AM

yes big kid, I realize it is an extreme sport which is why I asked about safety procedures. I made a stupid mistake, but I'm not dumb enough to think I will always fly perfectly and nothing unexpected will ever happen again. When learning how to skateboard, I was taught how to slide down the ramp on my knees in case I don't land on my board. My friend teaching me didn't assume i would never make a mistake. Safety equipment is worn because it is assumed there is a chance of falling. So why is it stupid to ask how to fall if I should do things like wear a helmet and assume there could be bad falls at some point?

bigkid - 8-4-2012 at 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dannyaq
yes big kid, I realize it is an extreme sport which is why I asked about safety procedures. I made a stupid mistake, but I'm not dumb enough to think I will always fly perfectly and nothing unexpected will ever happen again. When learning how to skateboard, I was taught how to slide down the ramp on my knees in case I don't land on my board. My friend teaching me didn't assume i would never make a mistake. Safety equipment is worn because it is assumed there is a chance of falling. So why is it stupid to ask how to fall if I should do things like wear a helmet and assume there could be bad falls at some point?

If, what I said pissed you off or you took offense to it, GOOD. Unless you are superman or God has granted you 9 lives, at some point you will get hurt because you were unable to respond quick enough or you didn't think, or you we not able to get to the quick release fast enough. Not everything is reparable.
I watch a guy the other day get lofted by his kite through a 10 foot gap between 2 motor homes and after he finally pulled the release, had traveled 248 feet.(I went out and measured the marks in the ground, just now). This guy is very experienced and knows what to do. Things could have been much worse, as it was a few days earlier.
I just get nasty when I think of a newbie getting in over his head. It may be my concern for the sport or your health or it could be the Morphine and the other 8 drugs I take every day to maintain a level of life that I will never again achieve, that you take for granted.

Get with someone who knows the sport, take it slow, use the correct equipment, expect the worst, and hope for the best. And know that at some point the worst will happen, but I hope not.
Enjoy the sport, but most of all, use your head and get good insurance.

alasdair macleod - 8-4-2012 at 08:22 AM

Quote:

Look this thread can go one of two ways
Backs go up and it becomes a slanging match or
You ask right questions don't take it too heart when the
Guys get a bit hard on you !
These guys have great wealth of info!:singing:

herc - 8-4-2012 at 09:29 AM

same with paragliding: a safe flying pilot will probably never pull the reserve parachute and will never hit the ground hard. nonetheless, good schools teach the parachute landing fall and also offer reserve parachute throwing courses.

here is a funny one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIuF_-t-kwA

another more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWQvq-6dB9Y

and dozens more on youtube etc.

Drewculous - 8-4-2012 at 12:46 PM

I wont slam ya, we all make mistakes... happens... all the safety precautions in the world wont help if everything goes wrong..... but EVERYTHING, rarely goes wrong....

on to your question tho,

if lofted straight up, let go. Land with "soft knees" (not locked legs), and on the ball of your foot, not your heel. You can probably do this up to 10' if you are a limber enough dude... ive hopped TONS of fences in my day, some 6, some 15', and i never did a five point roll. just bent knees will save ya 99% of the time... If your moving fast (hot landing) soft knees, and tuck and roll... 5 point landing if ya will... just dont roll into your lines, get out of the lines, and get the kite down.... cell phones are good to have on ya too

watch some parkour videos... not the wreck ones :lol:

... and watch how they land... its good info to have!!

helmets help, lol but ive seen stars with a proper bucket on my dome too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIgPMkGJ2v4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCV0k71OZRc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLydEwpx0cc&feature=relat...

Kamikuza - 8-4-2012 at 05:25 PM

I still think you're all mad, jumping with fixed-bridle kites :o

Drewculous - 8-4-2012 at 05:55 PM

i LOVE my twister for jumping!

My biggest, best jumps have been on that kite... i may be a little mad.... but after a sweet jump on that bad boy, you cant get the grin off my face!!

Kamikuza - 9-4-2012 at 06:41 AM

Meh... I much prefer the paraglider rides I get from the Speeds when over-powered :D

Drewculous - 9-4-2012 at 08:27 AM

Twister ~$350
Speed3 ~$2500

:rolleyes:

Houston AirHead - 9-4-2012 at 09:08 AM

pretty stupid on your part but no worries because now you learned not to do it again....

first time out with my 5 Ace i got spanked as well. I didnt land on my head but still was hurtin.

ive always learned the hard way... so my best advice is to wear a helmet next time and dont go out in gusty conditions...

glad your ok,

furbowski - 9-4-2012 at 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous
Twister ~$350
Speed3 ~$2500

:rolleyes:

:moon: . eh?

nice one!

@ OP: I hope you come back to this site. it's obvious you have the bug. Good luck to you.

dannyaq - 9-4-2012 at 12:33 PM

thanks for the advice. With kite killers attached to the wrists, I'd imagine the parachute fall landing would end up working nicely since it leaves room for the jerk on the wrists that comes after letting go. I know its not a blanket solution for any situation that might arise, but these techniques are useful to keep in mind. The landing on the toes part as well.

dandre - 10-4-2012 at 02:43 PM

don't let bigkid get all pretentious with you. everyone #@%$#!s up with kites.

I got owwwwwned by a twister as well

hope ya learned your lesson

Drewculous - 10-4-2012 at 03:34 PM

^^
:lol:

Kamikuza - 10-4-2012 at 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous
Twister ~$350
Speed3 ~$2500

:rolleyes:

Broken limb - $25,000 :lol:

Drewculous - 10-4-2012 at 05:34 PM

meh, all kites can spank ya.... FS aren't the exception to the rule buddy :lol:

Kamikuza - 10-4-2012 at 06:34 PM

I challenge your Twister with my Flysurfer! :lol:

Let's see how jumps and doesn't get spanked...

Drewculous - 10-4-2012 at 07:25 PM

ohh buddy im dangerous (in a safe way :D ) with that wing!

if i can ever drag someone out to film me, i'll smoke your "floaty glider jumps" with sky high, hooj, epic, well... awesome jumps :lol:

WELDNGOD - 10-4-2012 at 07:30 PM

shoulder surgery =$ 35,000 and still in pain every day...

WELDNGOD - 10-4-2012 at 07:32 PM

VIDEO WAR!!!!! NO PHOTOSHOP $H!T!!!! TO BE DECIDED BY US!!!

WELDNGOD - 10-4-2012 at 07:34 PM

KAMI vs. DREW Best jump/glide winner take all? Braggin rights?

pongnut - 10-4-2012 at 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous
ohh buddy im dangerous (in a safe way :D ) with that wing!

if i can ever drag someone out to film me, i'll smoke your "floaty glider jumps" with sky high, hooj, epic, well... awesome jumps :lol:

I want a ticket!!! :smilegrin:

Kamikuza - 10-4-2012 at 08:47 PM

I'm more interested in the landing than the jump :D which is why I'm willing to bet that I'll still be jumping when Drew is nursing his sore bits :lol:

Yes I'm a sissy... but I've already broken myself once, maybe twice :bigok:

mougl - 10-4-2012 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD
KAMI vs. DREW Best jump/glide winner take all? Braggin rights?

I gotta see this :thumbup:

dandre - 11-4-2012 at 05:32 AM

I'm with drew, FS is over-rated unless you're in a puff.
once yer blowin' kites is kites

Drewculous - 11-4-2012 at 06:38 AM

wow this thread veer'd hard :lol:

Its on now :evil:

if i can ever get my wife out there with the camera i'll post 'em! The helmet cam never catches the height right.... i watch a video im like wow, those were lame jumps, then i see some stills, and its like DAMNN!!!!! :lol:

for the record... i would own a full line of speed3's if i had $10k

PHREERIDER - 11-4-2012 at 07:30 AM

practice the actions you want to master. let go, balance, fly it out... whatever your practice has conditioned, will be the result .

the action can be quickly learn, the reflex to use it in the right moment will be provided by time. doing and experiencing is the how the sport is learned.

most unwanted things come from the unexpected, if the wind is delivering unreadable change then exposure should be limited. select carefully the learning environment, it should contain good piloting experience without a survival deposition.

"HALF A SECOND LATER I HEAR A RUSH OF WIND"

wind riding is like prophecy of the invisible , knowing more than appears is essential. gravity makes it work never forget this! understanding what IS happening AND what WILL happen is in CONSTANT FLOW. avoiding injury will only sharpen your skill and reflexes, choose wisely your learning conditions.(said that twice!)
you noticed the change coming, thats real learning , AND the safest way to fall is to avoid it, by confident action with the info you have be it let go, balance , fly it out or don't go out! . the more you do this sport the more this confident action changes.

para troop fall is best i know. keep the arms/legs IN...wear a helmet!

snowspider - 11-4-2012 at 11:04 AM

To summerize some of the above advice , if you,ve got a lot of forward motion tuck and roll , if its straight up and down get your toes pointed and bend your knees.
I think your example is classic learning , you knew just enough to be dangerous, its a common condition to a lot of life threatening activities. Having survived it , you now know the hidden ugly a combination of those winds with that kite produce. Early in the learning process its hard to know how close to an ugly situation you really are. I'm sure you've read the "whos been spanked" thread. My high risk moments , are when I think I'm done flying but there is still a kite in the air. I have been violently reminded to continue flying the kite untill its down and secured.

doddg - 11-4-2012 at 11:39 AM

its the luck of the draw unfortunately. Some at NABX were really decked out in all the protect gear, others just a helmet, some, not even that. Some would venture out and race in gusty winds while others (like me) were a bit more cautious and would wait it out. I was lifted once, landed on my tail bone and right Elbow, but I was lucky. Going about 25 when a new buggier heard me coming and immediately flew his kite up, which blocked mine and sent it the other way, ejecting me out on to my butt, my head bounced off the playa and cracked my helmet, but no injury...... Again, I was lucky but I relearned another playa lesson, do not go near new traction kiters....It was my fault... Just a little pain and blood from my elbow...ok now though. No matter how safe you are, something could go wrong. I would not have had time to pull the safety release, that's ok, I don't have one...lol At Harper, I was flying my 4.0 when a huge wind came up. You could see it coming in the dust. I immediately pulled out of my harness and grabbed the handles pretty much by my index fingers only, and when it hit around 35 or more, I let go....no harm, another buggier helped me retrieve my kite and that was that...Just be careful. There were other injuries at NABX although nothing serious that I know of...

dandre - 11-4-2012 at 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PHREERIDER
if the wind is delivering unreadable change then exposure should be limited. select carefully the learning environment,

wind riding is like prophecy of the invisible

THIS IS GOOD ADVICE.

you should read up on turbulance and wind-shadow,
if you spend enough time obsessed with wind alot of times you can predict gusts by gaps in pressure and how the air is moving.

Still will suprise you though.
VERRRRRRY often

Kamikuza - 11-4-2012 at 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dandre
I'm with drew, FS is over-rated unless you're in a puff.
once yer blowin' kites is kites

Nonsense. The quirks of the kites - the manufacturers would call them "characteristics" :lol:

- still come in to play; they're either amplified to good effect - or destroy the experience.

dandre - 11-4-2012 at 06:41 PM

well I've had both

frankly as long as it's not super low end price wise, I don't care.

I think most modern brands are pretty awesome. Just like different people.

Not all us rich but we still flyin'

Bladerunner - 12-10-2012 at 05:10 PM

Sounds like you figured a lot out on your own explaining your mistakes as 1, 2 and 3 .

We all make mistakes. Trying to back out at mistake 1 is a good place to start.

I think the big answer to your question is the 5 point roll. It is something you should practice so it gets set in your muscle memory.

A good skate helmet should do the job? Most important is to protect the back of your head + to have a comfortable helmet so you wear it every time out. Some folks like full face but that is sort of a personal choice.

If you are being lifted by a small canopy then you have a problem . Letting go quick is your best way out. This is why I never suggest jumping with smaller than a 5m kite. If you are under a large canopy then you " have a paraglider " and should relax. According to Flysurfer manuals at least! It has worked for me the 2 times I have been lofted. Whoever says the 10.8 Reactor II isn't floaty hasn't started down from 20ft !!!

BigKid means well. He has just been beat up by the sport and gets a bit worked up about the issue. He is correct. One small mistake and you can be paying for the rest of your life! Jeff will and doesn't wish that on anybody !

carltb - 13-10-2012 at 03:22 AM

just by coincidence i did a little jumping video yesterday............... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZhT_z5XxUo&feature=plcp

Proletariat - 19-1-2013 at 10:35 PM

Nice vid, Carl. Is that a charger? List your kites, why don't ya, you sponsored bastard

Anyway, OP, thanks for postin your questions. Takes some balls and everyone can learn from the discussion. I did the same thing with a pansh flux 4m and totally jacked myself for a bit and it was only because I made the same exact mistakes you did. Here's my advice:

1) helmet - get a bern. They're badass.
2) aikido - teaches power absorption / redirect.
3) switch to depower - I just did, but I already feel safer in inland gusty winds.
4) learn to redirect by instinct instead of thought (still working on this, myself)
5) if the thought crosses your mind, "I wonder if I should pack up..."
Do.
Always.
6) in freaky winds like that, release to kite killers a LOT. It's no big deal to untangle your kite, and it breeds confidence / familiarity.
7) don't EVER trust a new kite until you have seen all of its evil sides

Anyway, those are the things I think about when I'm trying not to be an idiot, but still trying to have fun. Thanks again for the post.

Proletariat - 19-1-2013 at 10:44 PM

Re: Aikido, most places aren't this aggressive, but it gives you an idea of how to take a serious fall. More importantly, you practice it a lot, so you develop muscle memory. It has saved my ass from a number of ice / stair falls. Of course, it didn't help me at all with the flux -- or maybe it did and I would've been WAY more jacked up had I not fallen and rolled. I dunno. Just my 2€

http://youtu.be/r58NKes7nOo