Power Kite Forum

Complete newbie here.

Mastertoot - 28-4-2012 at 07:23 AM

Hey.
I've recently started flying kites, i have a HQ Symphony 1.3m and Ozone Flow 4m. I figured to buy two sizes in case the wind was too strong/light (and the HQ is dirt cheap;).

SO far i've got them off the ground. The HQ i can keep up a while but more often than not it comes crashing down. The Ozone 4m goes straight up but comes straight back down and crashes terribly on its nose. If it stays up it spins quite fast and pulls me about a bit. I've read countless guides and watched many instructional videos about the basics of controlling a kite and i thought i understood it well. I seem to be able to steer the 1.3m a bit but more often than not it turns over on the floor before i get it up and i have to run back to turn it the right way round (repeat this 50 times!).

Could there be any reason for my 4m spinning aroung 360 or just nosediving to the floor? and when the lines twist round do the handles/wrist things still provide input to the kite?

I appreciate you'll have heard this a thousand times but any help would be very well received!

Many thanks

Bladerunner - 28-4-2012 at 11:20 AM

Your kite is getting brake input from the back lines somehow.

Fly the kite on the front lines with them between your pointer and index finger. The bottom of the handles should end up slight toward the kite naturally. The back lines should have an arc in them as they fly slack. Start with the brake lines as long as possible using the knots at the kite and handles. Make sure all lines are equal length to start.

Don't try and FLY the kite at 1st. Try to CONTROL the kite !

Get it up to zenith and just try and keep it calm up there. Avoiding diving and the power zone. Avoiding unwanted brake input. Feel how small delicate motion takes a second and then plays into the kite. There will be HUGE difference in responce time from the bumble bee action of the 1.5 to the true sail action of the Flow. Get used to that delay before starting to Fly. Beginers rush to fly the kite all over , including the power zone before they understand control. Big motions just confuse the kite and the pilot. Smaller motions with purpose and time work far better.

Next, just rock the flow back and forth a bit and settle it down at zenith again. Avoid the power zone and feel how the kite sits at the edge with minimal pull all the way down both sides. Each time things go bad try and settle the kite down on the edge like that. Once you have that figured out you can start dipping into the power zone more. Flying figure 8s up high is next.

ALL this before you even think about adding brake input. Only use the brakes to reverse launch and back the kite down until you have control of the kite 2 line fashion. Then you can start working on brake turns ....

Have fun !
:wee:

Cerebite - 28-4-2012 at 12:03 PM

Before you get to Bladerunners guidance on kite control with the brakes it sounds like you have a "technical" issue with the brakes.
Before you launch [you are using a stake at the handles or a weight at the kite during setup right?] ensure that there are no twists or loops in the bridling. It only takes a very small "tangle" to put the kite into a death spiral.

Second walk out your lines and make sure that all four are equal in length, again it take very little difference in length to affect the flight/control characteristics of the kite.

Mastertoot - 29-4-2012 at 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
Your kite is getting brake input from the back lines somehow.

Fly the kite on the front lines with them between your pointer and index finger. The bottom of the handles should end up slight toward the kite np it .......


Thanks very much to you both for replying. Very helpful advice.

I use two massive screw drivers to stake my handles down, should i wrap the brake lines round them to stop the kite taking off before i've run back to the handles, chortle? That was the other problem. For her sins my girlfriend has agreed to help me out next time.

Thanks again for replying.

Cerebite - 30-4-2012 at 01:30 PM

I use two massive screw drivers to stake my handles down, should i wrap the brake lines round them to stop the kite taking off before i've run back to the handles, chortle? That was the other problem. For her sins my girlfriend has agreed to help me out next time.

with a properly set -up kite there should not be a concern with it self launching. When you stake the kite [I use one stake for both handles] the stake should either go through the "back loops" at the brake end of the handle or in the crook where the brake leader meets the handle [my preferred method as you do not need to pull up the stake to grab the kite]. The power/ drive lined and their end of the handles are then allowed/ placed "down range" from the stake towards the kite; this results in the kite being flagged out on the brake lines much the same as applying the kite killers does.
If you are set up as described and the kite is still self launching so that you have to "run back to the kite" then one, or more, of the following is occurring:
a. waay to much wind for the kite and your skill level
b. brake lines are too long or attached "to long" on the brake leaders. This situation is a tangent to the "un equal length line" discussion. You can experiment with this by adding a knot 2 -3" closer to the sail on the brake leader and attach the brakes to that and see what effect it has on your flight performance.

Hope that helps. Keep the questions coming, we are here to help [and know these answers because we have made these mistakes :singing::yes:

Mastertoot - 1-5-2012 at 04:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cerebite
I use two massive screw drivers to stake my handles down, should i wrap the brake lines round them to stop the kite taking off before i've run back to the handles, chortle? That was the other problem. For her sins my girlfriend has agreed to help me out next time.

with a properly set -up kite there should not be a concern with it self launching. When you stake the kite [I use one stake for both handles] the stake should either go through the "back loops" at the brake end of the handle or in the crook where the brake leader meets the handle [my preferred method as you do not need to pull up the stake to grab the kite]. The power/ drive lined and their end of the handles are then allowed/ placed "down range" from the stake towards the kite; this results in the kite being flagged out on the brake lines much the same as applying the kite killers does.
If you are set up as described and the kite is still self launching so that you have to "run back to the kite" then one, or more, of the following is occurring:
a. waay to much wind for the kite and your skill level
b. brake lines are too long or attached "to long" on the brake leaders. This situation is a tangent to the "un equal length line" discussion. You can experiment with this by adding a knot 2 -3" closer to the sail on the brake leader and attach the brakes to that and see what effect it has on your flight performance.

Hope that helps. Keep the questions coming, we are here to help [and know these answers because we have made these mistakes :singing::yes:

Thanks.
Thinking back I think i staked my handles so the power lines were tight, i would imagine this is the reason for self launch and, chortle, the handles flying past me fast enough to chop a small slice of my ring finger off as i tried to catch it - Ouch! I'm going out again tomorrow morning, my girlfriend is going to help, bless her. I'll try your tips and the others here. Thanks again.

WELDNGOD - 1-5-2012 at 04:56 PM

NEVER GRAB LINES OR BRIDLES!!!!!!

Bladerunner - 1-5-2012 at 05:10 PM

Time for the gloves and helmet suggestion . ;)

BigMikesKites - 1-5-2012 at 05:23 PM

Welcome. If you have some time, take everyone's advice here. Also, I made a boring, 2 part video for one of my customers called 'Why does my Twister Twist?'
Part 1
http://youtu.be/dv44PeRq8_c
and
Part 2
http://youtu.be/myYEsUWasQQ
Maybe this will help.

Cerebite - 2-5-2012 at 07:17 AM

Great video, thanks Mike.

Mastertoot - 2-5-2012 at 07:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
Time for the gloves and helmet suggestion . ;)


...and everyone who has responded - thanks so much for your time you've all been really helpful.

I've just got back from my second outing, it was way more successful and much more fun. Following all the advice above there was no self launching and very little nose diving :wee: I managed to control the kite from left to right and reverse launch was simple enough (though required more strength than i thought)

It pulled me in the air unexpectedly a few times and I got dragged on my belly and backside for quite a distance but it was muchos fun! There was a brief moment being dragged down the field with my pants pulled down but we don't need to mention that again ;)
I think a 2 or 3m kite is in order for days with higher winds!

I'm not sure what to look for from here, should i just concentrate on moving the kite around the low power zone, i.e from 12 oclock to 1 and so on? I'm quite keen on avoiding the power zone for now :wow:


Gloves and helmet duly noted!

Thanks for all your help.

Mastertoot - 2-5-2012 at 07:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigMikesKites
Welcome. If you have some time, take everyone's advice here. Also, I made a boring, 2 part video for one of my customers called 'Why does my Twister Twist?'
Part 1
http://youtu.be/dv44PeRq8_c
and
Part 2
http://youtu.be/myYEsUWasQQ
Maybe this will help.


I wasn't bored at any point! Really informative videos, they've helped allot.

ragden - 2-5-2012 at 09:07 AM

If your kite has enough power to drag you along on your belly, you either did something wrong (looped the kite?) or you are flying it in winds that you are not prepared for. Either wait for a "less windy day", or get a smaller kite to avoid these... often embarrassing moments.
;)

Curious... Where are you doing all this? Perhaps there is someone in your area who can give you some pointers.

Welcome to the addition.:singing:

Mastertoot - 2-5-2012 at 09:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ragden
If your kite has enough power to drag you along on your belly, you either did something wrong (looped the kite?) or you are flying it in winds that you are not prepared for. Either wait for a "less windy day", or get a smaller kite to avoid these... often embarrassing moments.
;)

Curious... Where are you doing all this? Perhaps there is someone in your area who can give you some pointers.

Welcome to the addition.:singing:


Thanks for the comment. I think it was a combination of too stronger winds in the last quarter of my session and being a complete newbie. For the majority of the time when the wind wasn't so strong i felt pretty much in control of things.... That said i'm thinking of buying a 2.0m-2.5m to be on the safe side!
Why did i not buy a power kite years ago!?

At the moment i'm flying in Leeds, Uk. There are other people who fly in the same place but I've not seen any since i bought a kite.

ragden - 2-5-2012 at 09:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mastertoot
...That said i'm thinking of buying a 2.0m-2.5m to be on the safe side!
Why did i not buy a power kite years ago!?


2-3m kites are standard starter size for most folks. Since you already have a 4m kite, a 2m makes some amount of sense. Though, I had a 3m and 5m in my quiver for awhile and thought that was a really good match-up. It really depends on your comfort levels (and your weight, and wind speeds.. etc).

As for why you did not start sooner... Cannot help ya there...
;)

Mastertoot - 3-5-2012 at 03:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ragden
Quote:
Originally posted by Mastertoot
...That said i'm thinking of buying a 2.0m-2.5m to be on the safe side!
Why did i not buy a power kite years ago!?


2-3m kites are standard starter size for most folks. Since you already have a 4m kite, a 2m makes some amount of sense. Though, I had a 3m and 5m in my quiver for awhile and thought that was a really good match-up. It really depends on your comfort levels (and your weight, and wind speeds.. etc).

As for why you did not start sooner... Cannot help ya there...
;)


Thanks again. I'm 13stone, possibly more apt at falling due to my skating and BMXing experience but i'm no where near my comfort zone! I was glad of kite killers yesterday but for the most part it was reasonably sedate. I'll pick a 2m this weekend and see how I go.

Cerebite - 3-5-2012 at 04:08 PM

I got a 2.4 m Sting [flexifoil] while at NABX when I did not have anything small enough for the high winds one day and flew the daylights out of it ["flew it like I stole it" from the Demo fleet].
Everyone resists buying these small trainer kites but if you read signatures on the forum you see that we all still have them for two reasons: High winds once you are experienced and to train others.
Another option that I can personally vouch for is the small PL Hornet, mine is a 3m but I think they make a 2m as well.

I am glad that we got you somewhat sorted out and flying, now we need to get you on a buggy or an ATB.

Mastertoot - 6-5-2012 at 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cerebite
I got a 2.4 m Sting [flexifoil] while at NABX when I did not have anything small enough for the high winds one day and flew the daylights out of it ["flew it like I stole it" from the Demo fleet].
Everyone resists buying these small trainer kites but if you read signatures on the forum you see that we all still have them for two reasons: High winds once you are experienced and to train others.
Another option that I can personally vouch for is the small PL Hornet, mine is a 3m but I think they make a 2m as well.

I am glad that we got you somewhat sorted out and flying, now we need to get you on a buggy or an ATB.


Thanks very much. I bought a two metre Flow a few days ago. i love it, its really responsive and a pleasure to fly. I'm really pleased with the combination of 2m and 4m flows too! All the twisted lines, nose dives, running back to kite etc is a thing of the past now. I can move the kite around the window and do a few loops and what not. Set-up, launching and landing is in the bag too.

I'm looking forward to getting on an ATB. I can't afford one just yet but whilst i'm flying recreationally what should i start to learn first? What i don't get is how you're able to go up and down wind? How do you position the kite to provide the right sort of pull etc? I do have off road grass skates i'm tempted to have some low wind fun with but i'll leave that for a while.

Again, thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Bladerunner - 6-5-2012 at 06:54 PM

Great to here you have had your 1st breakthrough !

I am not sure what you have for off road grass skates ? If they are inline skates you are golden ! I use the Coyote Rollerblades and they are second choice only behind snow skis for me . If you are already comfortable on these skates then using them with a kite makes good sense. Go with what you know !

The way the kite reacts is a bit different once in motion. The trick is to dive from say 11 to 2 and gain a bit of downwind motion. Use that motion to keep tension on the lines and fly the kite at the edge of the window. If wind is strong enough you can " park and ride " if not you must fly the kite in a sine ~ pattern creating power by diving the kite over and over. This is what you will have to do with the 2m but your 4m should park in a good wind.

Look over the great info Angus has put together at www.coastalwindsports.com He explains apperent wind and almost everything else you can think of in a fantastic way. Tons of good info to get you going.

Mastertoot - 7-5-2012 at 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
Great to here you have had your 1st breakthrough !

I am not sure what you have for off road grass skates ? If they are inline skates you are golden ! I use the Coyote Rollerblades and they are second choice only behind snow skis for me . If you are already comfortable on these skates then using them with a kite makes good sense. Go with what you know !

The way the kite reacts is a bit different once in motion. The trick is to dive from say 11 to 2 and gain a bit of downwind motion. Use that motion to keep tension on the lines and fly the kite at the edge of the window. If wind is strong enough you can " park and ride " if not you must fly the kite in a sine ~ pattern creating power by diving the kite over and over. This is what you will have to do with the 2m but your 4m should park in a good wind.

Look over the great info Angus has put together at www.coastalwindsports.com He explains apperent wind and almost everything else you can think of in a fantastic way. Tons of good info to get you going.

Hi. Thanks for your reply. I have Roces Big Cats which i've done some hills and various other terrain on. I have aggressive inline skates too so i'm pretty used to skating. I'm tempted to take them out next time as todays session went well. Would you mind explaining what park and ride is please?

Bladerunner - 7-5-2012 at 04:17 PM

When the wind is strong enough you can set the kite at the edge of the window and the pull is enough to park the kite there and ride. Without enough power you must sine the kite up and down to create power with each pump of the kite through the power zone.

Mastertoot - 8-5-2012 at 09:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
When the wind is strong enough you can set the kite at the edge of the window and the pull is enough to park the kite there and ride. Without enough power you must sine the kite up and down to create power with each pump of the kite through the power zone.


That makes sense! Thanks very much.

Mastertoot - 14-5-2012 at 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
When the wind is strong enough you can set the kite at the edge of the window and the pull is enough to park the kite there and ride. Without enough power you must sine the kite up and down to create power with each pump of the kite through the power zone.


Hey. I went out on off road skates today. Good fun. The wind picked up a bit too much so i quit it after a few falls (which made for funny video footage!). I feel like i'm progressing allot though, a few small jumps, good control (i think!) etc.

I suppose the next thing is to improve more, and then some more and then get a mountain board :roll:

Bladerunner - 14-5-2012 at 07:41 PM

Good for you !

I wouldn't be too concerned about jumps for a little while. Work hard on getting your turns down 1st. Just getting used to keeping power in the kite and turning will take you a long way. The kites you have will only frustrate and hurt you jumping. You will want something bigger for that.

All in good time !

:bigok:

Mastertoot - 15-5-2012 at 05:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
Good for you !

I wouldn't be too concerned about jumps for a little while. Work hard on getting your turns down 1st. Just getting used to keeping power in the kite and turning will take you a long way. The kites you have will only frustrate and hurt you jumping. You will want something bigger for that.

All in good time !

:bigok:


More kites in my quiver you say? nom nom nom nom. I do like my Flows but I think my 4m is going back to the shop soon, its got a fold in it. They don't have anymore flows so i may end up with something else. I would prefer to stick to 4m though and i'm not too fussed with jumps really. A few little jumps no higher than i can handle when landed hard is fine (i.e as if i was jumping off a ramp in normal skating etc) but i don't want lift ideally. I'll leave that big Blade in the shop for now! :wow:

Bladerunner - do you have any videos of people off road skating with kites?

I can't wait for some snow too. My bro snowboards so i can't wait to combine the two!

zooprincess - 16-5-2012 at 10:36 PM

Just wanted to say that this was an extremely educational thread for another complete newbie! Hope your next flight goes great :D