thanson2001ok - 1-6-2012 at 08:28 AM
OK, you FlySurfer fans, here is the problem I am having with FlySurfer bridlesl...
If you end up with the kite passing through the bridles due to luffing and/or collapsed kite rolling on the ground, how do you sort out the tangles.
1. Do you try to figure out how the kite passed through the bridles and revers it?
2. Or, if you can't quite figure that out, do you start to undo bridles and sort a line at a time. This option, quite frankly, scares the bejeebuz out
of me for fear I won't be able to put everything back correctly. If you know FlySurfers, you know that tangles like this typically cannot be solved by
simply disconnecting the flying lines and going up the bridle from the connection points starts to get complicated real quick.
Lastly, any advice on how to prevent this? I was flying my Unity this past weekend, had it way overhead for a minute when a gust and wind direction
change hit and she ended up in a magic carpet ride that passed one tip through the bridles. Once on the ground, the 5th line was passing smack dab
through the bridle lines. And the 5th line can't be detached without removing it without some hassle.
Thanks in advance. And yes, I have some ARCs for those on the d"ARC side who will advocate bridless kites 
martinipro - 1-6-2012 at 08:36 AM
Your best bet is to try and reverse it.
Undoing and redoing the lines works well too. However, you may end up with an entangled 5th line, in which case you have to disconnect it at the bar's
end and unwrap it from the bridles.
Hopes this makes sense.
As a side not, don't be afraid of disconnecting the front/rear lines from the bridle, they usually just wrap around and they are easy to undo. I
haven't seen bad tangles at the bridles YET.
I am still pretty new at FSers.
Flyfish - 1-6-2012 at 08:59 AM
Hey thanson,
I've recently started using flysurfer's also.but I paraglider for 10 years. My experience is I treat the flysurfer bridal the exact same way I treat
paraglider lines.
NEVER let the bar go through the bridal.
If you never let that happen, it's all just a matter of getting the wing tips back through the bridal lines.
I just lay the kite (or wing) out, with the bar up wind, then I start throwing bridal lines onto the top of the kite. Then you can see which lines are
under the kite. Start pulling the kite through those lines, and it will come out magic.
You'll be scared, because you'll think you'll be making it worse.
But remember:
It can't get worse if you never let the bar through the lines. Don't ever try to use your bar to solve the problem! Just think to yourself the "kite"
is the problem, not the lines!
I sound like I'm preaching. But with paragliding, you learn that what looks bad, is just the wing being twisted among the bridals
Hope this helps
BeamerBob - 1-6-2012 at 09:28 AM
2 out of 3 got "bridles" right! 
(Sorry Flyfish) I almost always fix these
issues passing the kite back through where it wasn't supposed to be. Sometimes with line wraps on depower, the easy route is to unhook the top lines,
sort the bridle to the correct orientation and then reattach the top lines. Every situation is different but only rarely is it bad enough to have to
sit down in the garage and sort one line at a time. Those sessions can be an hour or more. Every problem you work through, makes you better for the
next time.
Tibi - 1-6-2012 at 09:40 AM
Todd,
The problem you're describing happened to me a few times. While disconecting the main lines can be relatively easy, the 5th line is a problem. That
line can't be disconnected at the kite and to disconnect it at the bar is a pain. What you can do is to add an "easy line connector" somewhere along
the 5th line... for example at the point your bar would end up on the 5th line when you'd be using the safety.
Tibi
thanson2001ok - 2-6-2012 at 09:32 AM
Thanks for the advice, gents. I picked up a few good tips here. My fear is subsiding.
If anyone else has suggestions, please continue. I now know I am not the only one left scratching my head asking how the lines could end up like they
do.
kitedelight - 2-6-2012 at 10:16 AM
Hey Thanson,
well, the good news, these things don't happen lots. But, either way, don't fear the bridle. Things can come apart, things can go back together
again.
good tips so far. Nice tip on the easy connector for the 5th line! Most issues seem to involve that 5th line being in a wrong spot.
I'll add my own bit from a really bad tangle last year. Had the same thing happen, but sent the kite through wrong way when hastily packing up, and
ended up with a mega-tangle. :dunno: Seemed like the correct move but certainly wasn't.
- take your time, don't fix in haste.
- try to always have your moves reversible. IE, if you move the kite though the bridle, either put your arm through where the kite went through, or
recruit a helper. That way, if it's not the right move, you can simply send it back through again.
- point of difference I guess, but when moving the kite through, I kept my lines attached to keep the bridles stretched out a bit so I can see what's
going on.
- hopefully you don't reach the point of no return with kite manoeuvres (I did). When this happens, you are forced to sort it out the shotgun
approach and start disconnecting LCL's and sort them out one by one. Takes a LONG time but was necessary in my case. If you are forced to do this
route, try to do one side at a time, that way you always have the other side to compare to do put it back together again. I didn't like doing this,
but certainly learned a lot more about the bridle.
all the best,
thanson2001ok - 2-6-2012 at 10:44 AM
I made this "note to self" :eureka: in a chat w/ g00f ... NEVER disassemble both sides at the same time. Need one to use as a model.
I swear I could hear him laughing his heinie off across Skype chat.
Kamikuza - 2-6-2012 at 05:38 PM
1! For the love of god, ONE!!! there's no need to undo stuff! Well, unless it
got undone, tangled up then done back up again :o
Things may LOOK tangled but be no more than one bridle line looped over and wrapped around another - a gentle jiggle will sort it.
Try and get the bridle and bar lines laid out as flat and jiggle/twist free so you can have a good look at what you've down. Look, think, try lifting
and unpulling a little of the tangle before you commit to trying the whole maneuver.
Basics ...
If the tip has gone through the bridle, lay the kite out as for launch, lift it up and reach under it, grab the bridle lines and drag it towards and
over the tip. Fixed. Just make sure you get ALL the bridle lines ... you'll have a weird tangle at the mixer area if you've missed one.
If you've inverted the kite, lay it out flat and unwind the lines, then either remove the rear lines and reattach or flip the bar through the center
lines. Fixed.
I can't think of any other problems. And I've swum in with unwrapped lines, balled the kite into a pile and waddled up the beach with it. Had to take
off the lines but it was pretty quick to sort out.
Bladerunner - 3-6-2012 at 10:09 AM
I had a mess from a popped 5th line in my older more complicated Phsycho II and could not find a pass back option.
I filled the kite with a vacumes discharge to get it to sit in shape. I then took advantage of the "Breakaway Tabs" at the kite to undo the problem .
After struggling this method was the answer for me .
kitedelight - 3-6-2012 at 11:56 AM
" there's no need to undo stuff!"
oh no, I am very glad FS came up with those LCLs, as they have a great double duty of saving the bridle in the case of a super-tangle (only have had
one thankfully)...honestly, without them, pretty sure my FS would be tangled to this day.
Granted, that supertangle was my fault 
, but still, the LCL's really
saved the day.
Flyfish - 3-6-2012 at 02:12 PM
I'm with Kami on this one. I don't think you should ever have to undo the bridle from the kite in order to sort out "tangles". You would never undo
the bridle of a paraglider. The first golden rule is don't ever let the end of the lines go into the bridle, thus it's all just a matter of twisting
the kite back around through the bridle. I will say that the fifth line seems to complicate the issue when it gets rapped. But for me, I always try
the lowest possible solution, then work my way up the chain!
Bladerunner - 4-6-2012 at 06:48 AM
I think you are both right about almost all tangles being able to be reversed. Mine had multiple issues. Fifth line popped , kite flew a loooong way.
Another fellow got to kite 1st and threw the bar into the mess. The P2 had a more complicated bridle.
I tried for hours and got a lot of the mess out. Blowing it up and using the LCL's saved the day that one and only time.
I just hate that moment you must commit to sending your tip through a bridle to undo a twist. ALMOST sure you have it right but if you are wrong
...:shocked2:
PHREERIDER - 4-6-2012 at 01:25 PM
recently i have more FS time and the pulse 2 i have, has been great
i had one pass thru(on land) after late air trans ...after the kite settled to the ground inverted TE down one tip partially passed thru...ran toward
it , it rolls, i stop and magically it un phucS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-d itself. rolls is bad word more like lies down and then rev launch, did a relaunch
on the water ..if i had not had the board it would have challenging .
solo start side launch, just like an arc neat easy, fills on the side of the window never a surprise. the fds solo drop ..that i do not like,
but its ok as long as it doesn't float too much and whip the pulleys into a nest.
if it seems there is a pass thru after its down. clam it, rake all the lines TO their respective tip,so the LE has NO lines on it and throw it all
inside ...open and its go time.
always at the kite, the bar should at least be wrapped so not to add confusion.
Flyfish - 4-6-2012 at 07:27 PM
Hey Phree,
I also was really not stoked on using the 5th line to solo land. My brother rides a HQ Montana and uses his landing strap 100% to back stall the kite
down no matter how powered he is. Being the good little brother that I am, I followed him and took off the 5th line on my 12 meter Pulse 2 that I got
from Tridude. I set it up with the front line safety. and then I added a landing strap. When I used the strap on the montana, It really helps with
confidence on pulling it out of the sky. Hope it helps reducing the induced "tangles" just landing the kite!
Flyfish - 4-6-2012 at 07:42 PM
Landing strap Picture
PHREERIDER - 5-6-2012 at 07:37 AM
the 5th line works and actually keeps thing s tidy just the slo float to the ground and into marsh grass sticks that really is a bummer, that turned
me off.
low wind rev. stall works great definitely tidy but in 20kts its drop it to safety or have assist.
the 5th line seems ok and dosen;t spin so happy with that , the strap is a nice touch, matrix has similar and works well. thanks for tip.
a nice lay down attachment point without flopping over would be nice..just a complete water drop could get messy quick, i think the center thing
kinda keeps things separated.
powerzone - 12-6-2012 at 08:14 AM
hey Todd
I know the Unity doesn't come standard with one, but i always install a miniature ELC metal piece in the 5th line so i can separate it and untwist
things if needed.
i custom machine a very small stainless ELC. a normal size one is too big and heavy. let me know if you want afew, i'll make you some.
also, i add in an adjuster and tensioner for the 5th line so it does not sagg and is adjusted so its nice and tight.
another trick is to splice-in a bungee section inside the Endline to tension the 5th line.
thanson2001ok - 17-6-2012 at 03:14 PM
@everyone - thanks for all the advice,
@John - thanks for the tips. I'll reach out to you. Also need to explore another possible need.
kitedelight - 18-6-2012 at 01:32 PM
was it fairly straightforward? just curious how it went and what you ended up doing.