Power Kite Forum

Some kiting questions from a seasoned beginner.

joedy - 9-7-2012 at 08:04 AM

Last week, my wife gave me a birthday gift of a full week at Rodanthe, NC to kiteboard. Since I had only just recently learned to ride on the board, this was a great time to spend in the water and refine my kiteboarding skills.
 
My goals for the week were rather modest: to be able to consistently get on the board in both regular (ride to the left) and goofy (ride to the right) stance, to be able to consistently travel upwind and to launch and land a dry kite.
At the end of what I estimate to be about 12 hours in the water, I can say with pride that I accomplished these goals to great personal satisfaction and pride.
I did encounter some issues that I hope you guys can help me out with.
My gear was: a Flysurfer Pulse 10m, a Flysurfer Speed3 19m Deluxe, a 2008 Spleene 154 Door and a 2011 Mako 140. My weight is 180 pounds.
 
Is this Apparent Wind?
When I drove up to the Salvo Day Use area, I saw a Speed 21 already out, so I knew that this would be a good day to try my new-to-me Speed3 19m. The winds were about 10 knots and were pretty smooth. I took the Mako board, did a straight downwind launch and watched the Speed3 jellyfish and fill on the way up into the sky. I had the trim strap about a quarter of the way depowered and the bar felt pretty reasonable when powered up. On the first tack out, I dived the kite, got up and planned and started to edge the board and then, I felt a HUGE gust of power which quickly took me into an unplanned faceplant. I wrote this off as an unexpected wind gust.
On the second attempt, the power gust returned, but I figured this was the apparent wind effect kicking in.
Is my assumption correct? How should I anticipate this effect in the future? I ended up breaking form (doing the Poop Stance), sheeting out to stay on the board and then gradually adding back in power and edging as hard as I could.
 
Is this time to head in?
The winds increased throughout the day, and I noticed more LEI guys starting to launch 10m to 13m bow kites. By this time, I had to pull the trim strap most of the way in (depowered almost all of the way out.) I also noticed that I couldn’t seem to edge the board unless I did the Poop Stance and going upwind became more challenging (and less successful.) Are these signs that I’m getting too overpowered and time to change kites?
 
It’s a beautiful kite, but how do you land the beast?
When I realized that it was time to call it quits, the small beach area was PACKED with people who erected pop-up tents and umbrellas. There were also many small children in the shallow sound waters. I ended up walking the kite (fully depowered) through the beach area and across the parking lot to the grassy area while my wife grabbed the wing tip. It wasn’t ideal, but it allowed me to pack up a dry kite. What is the best method for landing in these kinds of situations?
 
Should I grow longer arms?
I noticed on both the Pulse and the Speed that when I edged with proper form, I could not sheet the bar all the way out unless I broke form. Should a proper setup allow me to sheet out while maintaining the straight body form for edging?
 
Should I shrink my derriere?
When the winds picked up, the sound side started to generate small swells. I noticed though, that my derriere would end up hitting these waves and slowing me down. It frequently meant that I would stall the kite and have to perform another relaunch. I ended up doing the Poop Stance since it got my rear end out of the waves, but I don’t know what the proper response should have been. I realize that the Mako board probably helped me to get away with this since it allows you to use a somewhat more even stance.
 
When you end up going NASCAR, what should you do?
I realized that the Speed machine REALLY is an apt-fitting name; I frequently found myself going too fast and losing control. When I had room, I would send the kite to 12 and bleed off the speed. I also discovered that keeping the kite around 10 and 2 gave me the most control and anything lower sent me too fast and made edging almost impossible. What is the ideal way to reduce board speed while maintaining control?
 
The Waves Resort – (it’s really only designed for LEI kites)
The place we stayed at was within viewing and walking distance of the Kitty Hawk Waves resort. Since the winds were straight onshore (almost daily), I never felt comfortable launching my Flysurfers off of the embankment since a sudden gust in the power zone would have sent me into the wall. Not to mention the frequent oyster shells around the wall made the idea of body dragging a vicious proposition. With the nearby breakwater wall, there wasn’t enough room to do a side wing tip launch either without running out of room or hitting the rocks. I ended up using the small beach area next to the site, but since it was loaded with debris and sharp plants, it always took a while to set up and walk the lines out. Is my experience unique? Has anyone else attempted to launch from this location with a foil kite?

PHREERIDER - 9-7-2012 at 10:10 AM

the apparent wind thing yes, its the welling speed the kite generates BY YOU AND THE KITE IN A DYNAMIC SYSTEM on a point of sail.

the initail grunt is HIGH power but the apparent wind is where most of the juice comes from.

basically, once moving you realize the power available! and its ALOT!

PHREERIDER - 9-7-2012 at 12:06 PM

couple other things may help,

the 19m WAY over powered. as skill get better, this unit in about 12mph w/ big board. and thats about it for the big boy 19m.

at 180 about 12m(10m is fraction small but perfect at about 20mph)kite or change the BOARD SIZE. being overpowered at first is kinda what you need to get the starts wired but too much on the run.

get your head BACK, adjust the trim to get better bar position. flex more thru the hips like you are sitting down with your HEAD BACK. front foot POINTING, back leg flexing with heel pressure , this is the controlling position with kite about 60degrees of the water.

upwind is the brakes kite up high like you described, steep upwind chokes the system. speed is controlled by BOTH BOARD AND KITE. sounds like you most of the basic for control just need time and practice to find good speed WITH control.

FS is tedious set up and a #@%$#! to drop solo. not much is gonna change that.

the lay out of the area sounds unfriendly if you can launch a lei, same can be done for FS

hope this helps, sounds like great week!

stetson05 - 10-7-2012 at 12:59 AM

Be careful trying to choke a speed by going upwind. Almost any time I do that except when underpowered I only accelerate. It keeps the tension on the kite which builds the apparent wind. Depowering it only seems to make it fly more forward into the window and it speeds up more. Last time I tried, I sped up until I lifted off the water with the kite at 10, bar completely depowered and landed down wind. Every other kite except my FS 17 and 19 chokes when going upwind.

I have found that the best way to bleed off speed with my 19 is to steer towards the kite a little to let some of the tension out of the lines and that seems to lessen the apparant wind.

I figure that when the kite is pulling me up out of my stance and it is all I can do to keep the board under me that I need a smaller kite or board for the conditions. You also might need to take a smaller bite out of the wind window when starting. Some times it seems I only need to move my kite from 12 to 10 or 2 to get up on the board( small bite. Other times I have to go from 12 nearly straight down then bring the kite back up to 10 or 2 as I edge(big bite).

I hope this helps a little.

Kamikuza - 10-7-2012 at 01:37 AM

Hello again! :D

@stetson - you gotta use the board. Edge up hard and resist the kite, it'll drive to the edge of the window then just resume good stance and ride the board slowly ... you'll go freakin' miles upwind though!

If you're doing that all the time ... get a smaller kite up :yes:

Riding at the kite/downwind - one point ... J-U-S-T enough that the tension in the kite is gone, but not so much that you shoot under the kite and luff it :lol:

When in doubt - fall over backwards. Better to get a high-speed enema that a face-full of hard water!

ragden - 10-7-2012 at 07:43 AM

I have launched from the exact spot at KHK that you are describing. For self launching a foil in dead-on-shore winds, that is the best location. I cleared as much debris as possible and did a side launch with my 15m there. Worked fine. It did take me a little while to clear debris though.

Other comments about board control, and stronger winds are spot-on. If you are so overpowered that you cannot hold your edge, get a smaller board, or smaller kite. Landing the kite? However you can get it down. If the beach is really full, you can do a water landing. Not fun, and your kite will be REALLY wet, but if you have no other option, that works. You can do this assisted or solo. Whatever works. (Solo is a trick though, land a wingtip on the water, pop the safety, reel it in. Or you can backstall it down if the wind is light enough.)

PHREERIDER - 10-7-2012 at 08:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by stetson05
Be careful trying to choke a speed by going upwind. Almost any time I do that except when underpowered I only accelerate. It keeps the tension on the kite which builds the apparent wind. Depowering it only seems to make it fly more forward into the window and it speeds up more. Last time I tried, I sped up until I lifted off the water with the kite at 10, bar completely depowered and landed down wind. Every other kite except my FS 17 and 19 chokes when going upwind.

I have found that the best way to bleed off speed with my 19 is to steer towards the kite a little to let some of the tension out of the lines and that seems to lessen the apparant wind.

I figure that when the kite is pulling me up out of my stance and it is all I can do to keep the board under me that I need a smaller kite or board for the conditions. You also might need to take a smaller bite out of the wind window when starting. Some times it seems I only need to move my kite from 12 to 10 or 2 to get up on the board( small bite. Other times I have to go from 12 nearly straight down then bring the kite back up to 10 or 2 as I edge(big bite).

I hope this helps a little.


what is realized in this experience, you running upwind and speed is increasing and power is overwhelming ...for example to get the STEEPEST UPWIND run (pinching) kite is down practically on the water, very low and right at the edge of the window and enough power to continue , this is usually for high wind control and maximum upwind drive.
in gabes point you actually HAVE TO PASS THE KITE THRU THIS super SIDE PULL moment before it gets controllable or it finally chokes out. it is a combination of forward speed and kite speed at the edge. once mastered ( quickly putting the kite thru this high side pull moment) gets quicker and less noticeable. when i first started on the water going THRU this kite position change was completely out of the question but really gives unquestionable upwind access. and i also noticed with FS they really like to settle back into the window when in good control, extreme depower at the edge is asking for FS trouble ...it works the same but with most other kites your really letting the bar OUT for this edge effect sailing and with the FS JUST the opposite, the bar is in and really edging deep to maintain steep upwind line AND keep the FS unit from folding at the edge. gabe is totally right with FS point of view. the FS kite just have a very narrow sweet spot at the edge and typically a little deeper in the window, hence the POWER getting to this position is fast and powered.

them being HUGE kites only makes it truly furious amount of power for anyone .

stetson05 - 10-7-2012 at 11:59 AM

Thanks for the tips. I wish I had more days to practice and improve.