Power Kite Forum - (UPDATED)Some happenings behind the scenes during the April WBB

(UPDATED)Some happenings behind the scenes during the April WBB

shehatesmyhobbies - 3-8-2012 at 01:51 PM

Some do know some do not, but during the last bash, we almost got vacated from the beach. We kept it under wraps so as to not ruin anyones great weekend. But on Saturday, a member from the town offices from WW heard about our event and with all the equipment traffic on the beach, felt we shouldn't have been there in the first place. Joecat was called and asked about it and long story short, Joe had some back and forth phone calls with the guy and an eventually a ride to the beach with the gentleman and all was well again. Joe saved the weekend. Needless to say this member suggested that from here on out we should be permited and insured as to make the event "official" so we don't run into problems in the future. That being said I have been on the phone with the folks from WW and seeing what is needed to get things done.

It was only a matter of time the way that this little gathering, turned into what it is today. So from here on out, we will be permitted and insured to be on the beach and will be an offical Wildwood Event. i beilieve that it has been a long time coming and we are lucky to have not had any accidents to this point that would have ended this event prematurely.

I received the call today from the permits office to get the paper work started. Yes we will have to have insurance from here on out. Everyone that has even so little as a wedding on their beaches has to have a permit and insurance.(understandably)I am in the process of getting the proper paperwork done and inquiring about their insurance and figuring out what our options are as far as insurance. There had been some talk about making this a NAPKA sanctioned event, you know a traction kiting organization that insures traction kiting events, and there still is.I personally think it would be the best option, easier for everyone and for $40 a year you would be coverd at any event we have at WW, not to mention, helping other events in NA be able to have their events. There are other options, and I am still looking into them.

As all of you may or may not know, the WBB has always been free from registration and fees, but depending on how this goes that may change. This event has always been organized voluntarily and very loosely. The food at the BBQ has always been purchased through donations from the attendees and the hotel owners themselves. I would love to keep it this way.

I will keep you updated on what I find out. Let me know what you think about making this event a NAPKA event.

bobalooie57 - 3-8-2012 at 02:16 PM

Rich, If we make this a NAPKA sponsored event, we could have our races during the event, saving on the travel for those who live far away. Kind of selfish of me, as I am already a member, and I have a long way to go to get there, but just sayin'! Kind of wondering about the sometimes impromptu meet-ups that occur during the winter, still need permits/insurance?

shehatesmyhobbies - 3-8-2012 at 02:31 PM

the impromtu, "non events" would not be affected to my knowledge, that would be like them throwing joggers off the beach I guess. They would not be more than a couple of people meeting which does not constitute an event. No one ever bothered us before for small gatherings,

The race events that I spoke of earlier, would be set up as NAPKA events and be permitted and insured..And I agree, the races could happen at the same time as the regular event if it was NAPKA, we would just have to be able to mark off a section of the beach, with a permit this would be possible.

shehatesmyhobbies - 3-8-2012 at 02:33 PM

Also would like to say that I have also already spoke with Fran. The blokart group is ready to do what is required to be able to participate in an official event. They already have an insurance set up to take care of their events. So no problem on that end.

Kober - 3-8-2012 at 06:42 PM

This may be another option .....
https://www.sportsinsurance.com/

sand flea - 3-8-2012 at 07:35 PM

I need to bite my tongue in this! INCREDIBLE!!!

We need to support our organization, NAPKA.
It will only make your event better.

shehatesmyhobbies - 3-8-2012 at 09:04 PM

Yes sandflea, it is sort of Incredible. In WA at least it is part of the "highway" system, over here each municipality owns it's little piece of the beach. The thing is, we are not on the beach when anyone else is there, very little anyway. No kites, frisbees,or any other fun things are allowed on the beach during "tourist" season.(Mem. day to Labor day).

I agree we need to support NAPKA, (obviously), but I will try and leave it up to the attendee's as much as possible. But supporting NAPKA would be a great trade off for sure.

flyguy0101 - 4-8-2012 at 06:33 AM

Wow I did not know of the issues in the spring and first things first a BIG THankyou to joe and the others involved to keep it happening in April it was the best winds I had ever flown in at wildwood would have been a shame to have. Been shut down to have been shut down. Thanks again
Going forward I think making it a napka event makes sense although I also think that charging a entry fee is okay also. I cannot see a $20 entry fee making that much difference on a person. Coming or not. Rich as the promoter I am amazed we have not had insurance to protect you and the other event folks. I believe that if it is a napka event every kiter is covered even if not a member so maybe a reduced entry fee for members and higher for non mbers to promote joining but I think making a person join napka to participate is not the answer
Just my .02
Scott
Ps jibe,nabx,and dbbb all have ins and entry fee but not. Napka
Pps sorry for typo on phone

buggydanny - 4-8-2012 at 04:10 PM

I too want to thank all those who have made the bash happen over the years and especially Joe who helped avert a potential catastrophe at the last one.

I feel that it is about time that the bash grew up and became permitted and insured. Not having a permit left us vulnerable to being kicked off the beach at the whim of any official. It would be a shame to be shut down after most of us travel so far to kite and could spell the end of an event that I have become very fond of.

Insurance is a requirement for getting a permit and protects the participants in case of a mishap. It also protects the organizers from liability from a big list of things that can go wrong. They have been exposed to this risk over the previous bashes and it really is not fair to them.

Finding affordable insurance for the event is not an easy task. Making the bash a NAPKA event is an option. This would require all participants to become NAPKA members; I know that some may have reservations about joining. Rich is looking into others options and I am sure that we will hear more soon.

Looking forward to the bash, under 3 month to go.

Todd - 4-8-2012 at 04:35 PM

Very much agreed on all of the comments. It's time we secure our future in Wildwood and I like the direction this is moving.

rocfighter - 4-8-2012 at 05:17 PM

I have no problem paying a stipend to keep this event going. I still owe Rich $20.00 for the BBQ last spring. So whats a little more on the tab :lol:

Just kidding I have every intention of paying what I owe. I'm just shocked I still remember I owe it!!
But seriously I think the idea of insurance through NAPKA is a great idea. And using this organizations name will also promote us and NAPKA in a positive direction.
Good job Joe, Rich, and any one else who is working so hard to keep this a great event.

buggies

Skid - 4-8-2012 at 06:12 PM

Hey rich got a new phone and didn't get all my numbers call me please 2155196349 thanks

shehatesmyhobbies - 4-8-2012 at 10:03 PM

Hey Dave, you can be off the hook for the $20 for the BBQ, I did have your son right there with me cooking all night! :roll:

If some of you see or talk to others that go to the event, please ask them to post up and give some feedback. I have a couple of weeks to secure some sort of insurance. Whether it be an outside insurance company or we make it a NAPKA event, a decision will have to be made soon.

NAPKA cost $40 a year to join. This covers you for any NAPKA event in North America. Yeah some would only use it at WBB. The way I look at it, your $40 covers you for both WBB events. To me it's a no brainer. The Blokart guys already have an insurance policy so this will not be a problem for them.

aronma - 5-8-2012 at 05:42 AM

I'm not familiar with NAPKA, but $40 seems like a little to pay for event and sport that we'e all a liitle (?) addicted too. Either way I'm in. I guess I need to read up on NAPKA a bit....

rocfighter - 5-8-2012 at 06:55 AM

aronma there is a section here on PKF about NAPKA. Also a web site about it. Check it out and see if it is for you. As a member I'm a bit biased but give it a try.

flyguy0101 - 5-8-2012 at 08:00 AM

A little clarification after reading my post:
1. NAPKA is a great org. and i think that all land kiters should support it and be members-while small - it does provide us with a national organization and the ability to look much more responsible/professional when permits or insurance is concerned.
2. WBB- I think that it should be a sanctioned event for Napka, i think it should have some napka volunteers at the registration table, BUT I think if a person wants to attend wbb and not be a member of NAPKA they should be able to, also beleive that even with the napka insurance that the promoters for their own protection should have a seperate event policy. This event policy, i have researched with my insurance associates, would run between $400 and $600 dollars. we have 50+ rider at the event @ $20 a rider that covers it and still makes a profit that can go to a local charity or support the school power kite club (Joe is the one has helped us so much in Wbb and this club is his effort) If Rich want to promote napka as well maybe reduce registration to 10.00 for napka members but i believe if people know the what the funds are for up front nobody minds paying.

Also I look forward to becoming a Napka member at the bash
scott

cheezycheese - 5-8-2012 at 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyguy0101

Also I look forward to becoming a Napka member at the bash
scott

me too... :singing:

rocfighter - 5-8-2012 at 12:11 PM

You two knuckle heads will be a great addition to NAPKA.

aronma - 5-8-2012 at 05:02 PM

make that 3 knuckle heads

shehatesmyhobbies - 5-8-2012 at 05:03 PM

NAPKA also covers the organizer(s) of the event.(I just found out) Also a nice reason to go with NAPKA. :wink2:

shehatesmyhobbies - 6-8-2012 at 06:40 PM

Still working on this. Hope to know some sort of number for an outside ins. vs. NAPKA in the next week.

BEC - 7-8-2012 at 04:48 AM

I am looking forward to joining any group that promotes our sport and the safety/insurance of it, while letting others get to experience it too. This is a small price to pay....actually if someone can guarantee that wind and beach conditions will be like they were at the last spring WW Bash...I would be willing to pay a Ben Franklin towards the cause. :wee:

I guess the count is up to four knuckle heads! :singing:

abkayak - 7-8-2012 at 06:24 AM

As a new member of this kiting community, and running all over the internet looking to be a more informed kiter. I had wondered why NAPKA didn’t have a stronger presence in the North East, seemed more like a NW organization.... I was very jealous of that….. I would think for my own future it would only help to be involved w/ a national organization.

Bladerunner - 7-8-2012 at 06:35 AM

I feel that if you have to go out and buy insurance , get everybody to sign waivers ... it may as well be NAPKA ? Streamlines things. Many attendees will already be members so won't need to waist your time with waivers etc.. The Club builds credit with every succesful event and help leave a legacy / easier path for others to follow.

I haven't been to WBB but hope to attend. From what I gather it has exploded in attendance. Like it or not it is going to cost some money to run it now.

I would far prefer paying a fee up front than see somebody having to pass a hat to cover costs. For that reason alone folks need to accept a fee will be needed to pull it off.

NAPKA was always intended to be North American. It just so happens that Thanks to Fletch it has been most effective in opening beaches in Washington. This is by no means it's focus just it's 1st real success. Growing it's presence out East can only be good IMHO?

snowspider - 7-8-2012 at 07:20 AM

:thumbup:

from this k-nuckle for the convenience of signing up for NAPKA at the event.

Chad - 7-8-2012 at 09:57 AM

I agree we need to support NAPKA, The trade off between private insurance and NAPKA just does not make much sence. Let me pay $20-$40 each event compaired to $40 for a year at NAPKA? One payment and i can go to any NAPKA event all year long. If JIBE was NAPKA that would also be covered and I could get 3 events for one low price?
:eureka: Just saying..

In "no way" a cut on all the great work Angus does!!! :thumbup:

martinipro - 7-8-2012 at 11:18 AM

I've been thinking about joining NAPKA. Haven't done it already just because of laziness but have no problem joining if the event ever requires me to.

The one issue that I see with it being a NAPKA event is what about non-kite people?
Usually when I go riding I bring one or more people with me to try to introduce them to the sport (I think WBB is a great experience for everyone that is considering joining the sport).
For some people the required fees and memberships could be a turnoff and would stop them from coming for 1-2 days to see what the sport is all about.

Chad - 7-8-2012 at 12:20 PM

Martinipro:

Far be it from me to state policy but my understanding is that the event participants must be covered. This says nothing about people that are not participating in the WBB. We cannot police or shall I say stop people from flying on their own at the same time. This is not me saying come and just fly by yourself without NAPKA coverage but if I were looking at joining a sport that I was not sure of, this is what I would do first? (and did so for 1 year) But this is just me..
The coverage is for the person that you might hurt not for yourself, so with that in mind make a decision on how you want to proceed and what risk you want to take.
The choice is and always will be yours. I myself cannot risk my family or possessions to a lawsuit when I know I do not have to for just $40 a year.

shehatesmyhobbies - 7-8-2012 at 12:55 PM

Here is some info and resources about NAPKA. read over them, understand them and if you have questions, Please ask.

NAPKA resources

Like Chad said, it's not just a club, it's a club that has the benefit of having Liability Insurance to help those who cannot access a certain piece of land and traction kite without insurnace. The benefits out weigh any down side,(not that I know of one) about joing NAPKA. As far as someone coming with you to try things out, I can check on that with those that have had NAPKA events. I am also now working on another solution. Just trying to get things in order, not trying to stress any one on this.

Ist reason for insurance is to be allowed to have this event

skimtwashington - 8-8-2012 at 05:31 AM

:yes:

But some other issues come up....

First...I assume this event insurance is for LIABILITY(as in ," I'm SUING YOU!") which also includes MEDICAL coverage..... ?

- as just put into this discussion:

The gray area is people(attendees or guests) who are at the event WITHOUT insurance. In the event of an accident with an 'uninsured'...what happens? Let's assume they have an accident and involves a tourist bystander walking by. Will that person be able to sue the town of Wildwood ? What if the uninsured attendee just hurts himself?

More to the point.... Will the officials cancel future events because we had an uninsured person participate who got hurt(even if no one brought a lawsuit, but because they COULD HAVE SUED... and the town was vulnerable?) Maybe...?

How about this situation :

If one is covered in a multi-person accident and the other is not...Does the Insurance of one cover both if the insured one is at fault (Assuming one attendee wants to sue another)? What if vice-versa?

Again the real goal is to allow WBB to happen. Most folks didn't think about insurance until the WBB was threatened to be shut down. If the officials didn't mandate the insurance for future events, most would still not have special insurance that covers the event-liability,if not also medical(though most folks with any health insurance have medical coverage- not all expenses may be covered). Again ..I think the insurance issue is LIABILITY(lawsuit). But this needs clarification(to me at least).

Will the town require(outside of a permit) any PROOF that the event and all participants are covered? Can or should we expect that we could 'police' and check all attendees? I don't think so...?

Also:

I don't know if any quotes have been gotten... but what is the cost for a PRIVATE insurer for the event( vs. NAPKA)? NAPKA likely the best option....but let's try and know ALL the facts and options if possible...

I don't have the answers but just hope to raise the right questions here.
:wee:
:wee::wee:
:wee::wee::wee::wee: :yes:

shehatesmyhobbies - 8-8-2012 at 05:59 AM

What the borough of Wildwood crest wants is exactly that. Liability insurance to protect them and the city from being liable in case of any injuries or death that could result from our actions on the beach. This can be achieved with an outside seperate event Insurance.

The way NAPKA insurance works is that each member essentially has that same liability insurance for protection in case of any bodily harm done to a bystander or personal/ private property. It does not cover personal harm which you may do to yourself like break leg.

In the matter of bringing a guest, I will check on that today.

Also with NAPKA you would be required to wear at least a helmet and also display your NAPKA reg number on your buggy, like what you see on number plates of race buggies. While landboarding you would have to display your number on a safety vest.

Tibi - 8-8-2012 at 09:43 AM

I've seen two sites related to NAPKA:

napka.org

www.napkra.org

Are they both legit?

BeamerBob - 8-8-2012 at 10:13 AM

The "r" is gone now. We are NAPKA now.

shehatesmyhobbies - 9-8-2012 at 02:24 PM

Martin, the answer to your question about bringing guest to give this kite and buggy thing a try is that yes you can do that, If it were a NAPKA event a member could bring a "guest" and simply have them sign a waiver form to be able to participate and give kiting and buggying a go at it.

I do have another option that has just been presented to me, I am still working on the details. I will keep everyone posted in the days to come.

Can't wait to see everyone either way! Is it Oct yet???

aronma - 10-8-2012 at 01:07 PM

Does anyone know if NAPKA covers you if you're kiting and injure someone and you're not at an "organized" event?

shehatesmyhobbies - 10-8-2012 at 02:12 PM

In a nut shell, here is how it works for NAPKA Ins.

The insurance will cover members during any NAPKA sanctioned event (provided they have signed and returned waiver form and photo) whether it be a race event, a fun event, or practice for an event. As long as appropriate numbers are displayed and saftey regulations are followed. NAPKA is for traction powered, buggies, ATB's,landboards, Dirt surfers, and kite skates.

A NAPKA event is constituted by one member asking to hold a sanctioned event. Yes an event can be just one person.
A member can get coverage for having practice for an event. Again you would just have to request coverage for this practice.
A NAPKA fun event would be a gathering of members for the purpose of traction kiting without holding races.

In each case approximately two weeks notice would be needed so that one of these events could be held. ( I am going to see what else I can find out about a "practice" event). Kind of hard to schedule a session without knowing when the wind is coming.

Safety regulations that are posted withing the napka.org website would need to be adhered to in each of these events.

I hope this helps answer your question. If not U2U me and we can discuss things.

shehatesmyhobbies - 17-8-2012 at 07:21 PM

O.k., so since my last post here, I received contact from a giving person that has offered and now supplied the insurnace necessary for the upcoming event. I will not name this person unless they ask me to do so. I must say that I am very pleased that this has transpired. At least this way we can move on for now and then talk about the future while at WBB!

I will be filling out all the paper work this weekend and getting things off to WW next week.

Almost time for a countdown!

shehatesmyhobbies - 30-8-2012 at 11:54 AM

Just an update on the permit and insurance for the Oct bash. I am still working back and forth trying to please Wildwood Crest with their insurance needs. It has not been a great joy for sure. I am hoping to have the insurnace wrapped up by the end of the week or mid next week. I am in almost daily contact getting this matter worked out.

I cannot submit the permit till the insurnace has been worked out.

As of now I am beginning to work out a back up plan. I will keep everyone posted.

cheezycheese - 30-8-2012 at 12:54 PM

What kind of back-up plan... Are we gonna have to buggy on your front lawn...???!!?? :ticking::ticking::ticking:

shehatesmyhobbies - 30-8-2012 at 01:45 PM

The front lawn is too small, but you could definitely park all the buggies in the backyard, have one heck of a bonfire, and drink the night away! Oh, not enough room to buggy out back either, too many obstacles.

The other plan was for another insurnace option :smilegrin:

Thanks for the smile bro! This stuff is depressing and hectic!

bigkid - 30-8-2012 at 03:08 PM

Rich, if we can help out with your invisible hard work, let me know. I have a bit of time and ability to work through some of the stuff. I did the same thing for PNWBA as NAPKA did here in Washington. What we have gone through and accomplished here is by no means ours alone, we are more than happy to share. Some of us know the hours turns into days and the days turn into months and for some of us it has been years.
I for one know how much work it takes to do what is needed and I thank you for the work you have done.

For those who are on the fence about the group and or the cost of joining, I am a member of both NAPKA, and PNWBA. I am a paying member of both and with our work with Washington State we have doubled the abilities of NAPKA and its political power with the help of PNWBA. If one or the other has an event scheduled, both groups are able to participate in the event.
The helmet and placard rule is at times a bummer, it does make things easier in the long run. It also tells the world, and those that require the insurance, that we are a group that takes the this sport seriously. We have rules, regulations, teaching, and most of all, a way to self police our members and know who is who.
If things happen that cause a problem, our numbers are there for identification, and if they have no number visible, they are not part of our organization and we won't be held accountable for the trouble maker.
After 15 years of NO BUGGYING on the beaches here, these are simple rules and they are welcomed issues to get the beaches back to play on.

This is not just an West Coast or Pacific NW thing for NAPKA. Napka has opened the door for many other events and has also heard the words from some property owners, "OK" to use the property or area. For the reasons I said earlier, NAPKA and PNWBA has places and areas to play that would not have been possible any other way. I would hate for us to have to go through the crap most of the European guys go through, this is by far a better deal for everyone.

Todd - 30-8-2012 at 05:17 PM

Thank you very much Jeff for offering up your assistance. Without Rich working his magic I was in fear that this feet could not have been pulled off for the bash. I thank everyone who has come forth with offerings to keep Wildwood a premier event that is sure to grow.

shehatesmyhobbies - 30-8-2012 at 07:21 PM

Jeff, thanks for the kind words, my work over here still does not compare to what you guys have had to go through out west. I may actually have it worked out. Final approval will come Tuesday. Without the help from my giving person, this still could have been a real test.

I really believe there is going to be much talk about making this a NAPKA event in the future, this option now just enables us to get this one under the belt without giving every one shell shock that don't get on PKF so much. I do believe that more and more, communities are going to be asking for insurance and permits and who knows what else to get these events going on the beach or elsewhere. It is a real shame how it works, but once they smell money, they just don't quit.

Once I have all the paperwork done and I see that everyone is getting on the beach and riding hard like we always do, it will all be worth it.

bobalooie57 - 30-8-2012 at 07:42 PM

:thumbup:

to those of you working behind the curtain! EVERYONE ELSE--JOIN NAPKA!!!! :bigok: It would make ALL the events so much easier!

shehatesmyhobbies - 4-9-2012 at 10:23 AM

Some great news came today, our insurance for the event was finally approved. I am off to the post office now to mail out the permit application after a quick stop to get it notorized. The permit should be approved at their next bi-monthly meeting on the 15th. Then it's time to get our buggy on!

:roll:

Todd - 4-9-2012 at 10:33 AM

Awesome news Rich and thank you for all the hard work. I would also like to thank our behind the scenes person who enabled us to have this insurance... You SIR Rock!

shehatesmyhobbies - 4-9-2012 at 12:02 PM

Permit and insurance paperwork has been mailed. I hope to hear something back within two weeks.

BEC - 4-9-2012 at 01:22 PM

A "BIG THANK YOU" to the Known (Rich) and UN-KNOWN... (ins. provider):wee:

The countdown is killing me!! :smilegrin:

buggydanny - 5-9-2012 at 09:46 AM

Rich

This is great news. I hope that you will be able to sleep a little easier now. I appreciate all you hard work and need to thank you and the insurance supplier.

Looking forward to the bash, see everyone next month.

Dan

snowspider - 5-9-2012 at 06:27 PM

:thumbup:

shehatesmyhobbies - 15-9-2012 at 08:20 AM

Just thought everyone would like to know that I received in the mail to day our Special Event Permit. Done Deal! We are legit!

It was a tough battle getting it done, but now is complete and time to get down to the fun part of the event now! Let the good times roll!

buggydanny - 15-9-2012 at 10:55 AM

Great news Rich !!!

I appreciate all you hard work in securing the permit and also to those who helped. I hope you sleep a little better tonight.

See you soon, under 6 weeks to go.

Thanks

skimtwashington - 15-9-2012 at 11:24 AM

:thumbup:

bigkid - 15-9-2012 at 01:23 PM

Sweet, wish I could join you all. Will be working on showing up next spring.

bugymangp - 15-9-2012 at 03:24 PM

thanks rick
glad it all worked out lets all pary to the wind gods
nobody even think about saying the 4 letter weather word
i will have my new toy with me a manta and my blokart
wanting to get the wife started playing with wind

joecat - 20-9-2012 at 11:16 AM

I know its a little late but I just read this post now, My summer has been crazy busy and left no time to think about checking out the forum. Want to say thanks for all the nice comments. I was blind sided pretty good when the phone call got me in the spring from the city but we were able to work it all out.....After my initial spewwing of profanity ,to myself of course , i calmed down and made contact with the right people and we took care of it. Rich and the other guys have put a ton of time in on this event coming up and made the powers to be feel very comfortable with the event. So,,,,,let the good times roll!

ragden - 21-9-2012 at 04:39 AM

LBJ, you are the man. Nuf said.
Rich, amazing amount of effort put in for this. Greatly looking forward to seeing the fruits of your labor.
Thanks guys!!