Power Kite Forum

buggy racks

bigkid - 22-10-2012 at 06:19 AM

Been thinking about a new buggy rack for a bit now, that will carry 3 bugs at the same time with out dismantling any part of them, and will also swing out of the way while loaded to allow me to lower the tailgate of the truck. tdmc96 came up with a great idea with the clamp system he now has. With that idea of using those type of clamps would work well but for me the addition of the 3rd bug messes things up as far as simplicity and function of the access to lowering the tailgate.
The part that makes this questionable is the fact that it will only be supported by the 2' receiver and nothing else to steady the load, like a couple of straps from the top of the bugs to the truck to keep it from swaying and bouncing.
Here in Washington State, anything that extends 4' past the bumper needs to be flagged or have tail lights installed. This isn't a problem adding 300lbs to the hitch up close like the way a trailer is attached with a class 4 or 5 hitch. The problem is 300lbs weight 4' from the bumper, with out some type of stabilization.

Anyone have a 3 bug rack off the back of the rig? I have a trailer so that isn't an option.

awindofchange - 22-10-2012 at 12:14 PM

The problem you run into is the weight. By extending the bug's back 4', the actual weight the hitch sees is almost 5 times the actual weight of the buggies because of the leverage. With a quick calculation - if you put a 200 pound load on the back of a 4' extension that is mounted appx. 1 foot behind the rear wheels, the total tongue weight would be over 1000 lbs. and the total load seen on the rear wheels would be nearly 1800 pounds. If it is 2 ft behind the rear wheels, the total load on the rear could be equal to over 2600 lbs. If you extended the rear hitch another 3-4 ft, you could probably lift your trucks front wheels with just 200 lbs of buggies. :)

bigkid - 22-10-2012 at 01:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange
The problem you run into is the weight. By extending the bug's back 4', the actual weight the hitch sees is almost 5 times the actual weight of the buggies because of the leverage. With a quick calculation - if you put a 200 pound load on the back of a 4' extension that is mounted appx. 1 foot behind the rear wheels, the total tongue weight would be over 1000 lbs. and the total load seen on the rear wheels would be nearly 1800 pounds. If it is 2 ft behind the rear wheels, the total load on the rear could be equal to over 2600 lbs. If you extended the rear hitch another 3-4 ft, you could probably lift your trucks front wheels with just 200 lbs of buggies. :)

Are you sure? I think your adding machine is in need of a few new batteries. Or mine is broke. My calculations only worked out to just over 320lbs at 4' with the truck standing still. Granted when I drive the down force and side force are a bit more like 1000bls, but lift the front tires? You'll have to show me that one.:lol:

The 1st bug axle will be 11" from the bumper, and the 2nd bug axle will be 16" from the 1st. The 3rd axle will be 14" from the 2nd axle. With each bug weight averaging at 75lbs, the only concern I have is the sway factor of the material.
I have a 2 buggy, rack now so an extra 15" isn't that big of a problem, just adding the swing arm in is the part that will be interesting.

awindofchange - 22-10-2012 at 01:57 PM

Jeff, perhaps I am not seeing the same, I was assuming that you would start stacking the buggies at 4' past the rear bumper, giving an overall length with three buggies at appx. 7 ft (4 ft extension and appx. 12" per buggy). To lift the front wheels, I was saying an 'additional' 3-4 ft beyond the originally stated 4' extension. This would of course depend on the type of truck you had, a suburban would be much harder to lift than a Nissan. Estimating that the rear hitch is appx. 3ft from the rear wheels and with an 8ft extension out of the back of the truck, and bouncing 200lbs off of it, you could bounce the front wheels off the ground. Calculating the lever/weight ratio, you should be able to lift 3200 lbs of load with a 200lb force at 11 ft of leverage, wheelbase would be the determining factor on whether or not the wheels would actually come up. Obviously you are not putting the buggies 7-8 ft behind the hitch so this may not be an issue at all, but it should be considered when extending the weight behind the truck any distances. Going over bumps and dips could increase the downforce by a factor of 4 or even more which could be a serious issue on a smaller sized truck or could exceed the rated load of the hitch.

I am not saying that this can't be done, just wanted to raise awareness to this possible issues. I am pretty sure you would know what you were doing and have no doubt you could build it strong enough to hold the weight, but wasn't sure if you were aware of what that weight would do to the vehicle. Just moving the load back 1 ft could have a serious effect on how the truck drives and could double the amount of downforce or stress the hitch could see.

bigkid - 22-10-2012 at 02:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange
Jeff, perhaps I am not seeing the same, I was assuming that you would start stacking the buggies at 4' past the rear bumper, giving an overall length with three buggies at appx. 7 ft (4 ft extension and appx. 12" per buggy).

Who in the world would build a rack and leave 4' between the 1st buggy and the bumper? I went back and read my original post, didnt think I was an air head.
Just to clear the air, my truck weighs in at 9789lbs (03 Ram, Diesel, quad cab, long bed, 4x4, 1 ton), and the hitch is a class 5, and the rear has air bags.
Dont think weight is going to be an issue as I stated earlier even if I went 15' from the axle, only concerned is with load wobble from side to side. But I think I have that covered now that I think about it. I have had 3 buggies on the 2 buggy rack before, just would like to be able to space them out a bit for loading convenience.

I was just wondering if anyone has ever built a 3 place buggy rack.
It cant be any harder than building tow trucks for a living when I was younger.

WELDNGOD - 22-10-2012 at 03:47 PM

Jeff ,I built my dual rack,and it sticks out a bit(32-34 in. can't remember exactly) I carry a 217lb load on it and have driven to WW 5-6 times now. No probs,other than it costs me $10 extra at the ferry, cause I'm over 20 ft. I stopped sway by using a nylon strap. Get it lifted and tight without the bugggies on it, then when the bugs are on it ,it is solid.

I used sch 40 pipe, 2"x3"x1/4" angle ,and 2"x2"x1/4" 316L stainless square tubing. You could make it a lil longer, and I doubt you would have trouble

buggy rack1.jpg - 183kB

WELDNGOD - 22-10-2012 at 03:53 PM

the strap tieback

buggy rack2.jpg - 152kB

soliver - 22-10-2012 at 04:30 PM

WG, that's a pretty sweet rig,... I like it!

Jeff, have you considered car-topping them, or some combination of car topping and the trailer hitch rig?... Todd has some kind of set up where it looks like he can get 2 bugs on top of what looks like a civic (or some equitably small sedan),... or at least I've seen it in one of his vids...

or are you trying to eliminate that necessity with the trailer hitch rig?... just a thought.

I came up with a really simple car-topper rig for my bug to get it on top of my wife's cross-over. All it is is 2 pieces of square tube welded to 2 pieces of flat bar to make big rectangle that the wheels sit down in since they hang over the sides of her car... as such:



I know it's not what you're thinking, but it might be another route worth thinking about.

WIllardTheGrey - 22-10-2012 at 05:56 PM

I think the thing Jeff is asking for are thoughts on a swing away design. Like so, but for buggys.


WELDNGOD - 22-10-2012 at 08:01 PM

If you can draw it ,I can build it. But ,you better bring money....

awindofchange - 22-10-2012 at 08:48 PM

Sorry Jeff, You mentioned being able to lower the gate and then mentioned 4' limits, I only assumed. Sorry for my input, you obviously have it under control...was only trying to help.

bigkid - 23-10-2012 at 03:10 AM

Kent, I do appreciate the input, thanks.

The swing rack that Wilard showed is the idea I have been playing with. With the rack out to the side, one buggy goes on and is fastened on. When the rack is swung back to the travel state, the 2nd and 3rd is fastened on. I find that how ever I load the buggies, the one I want is the one on the bottom or the 1st one on the rack.

soliver, I am tired of the roof thing, besides I took off the lumber rack that I had on the truck for the last 10 years. Removing the lumber rack gave me back 5.8mpg @ 70 when on the freeway. I like 22mpg on the freeway, when I hook up the trailer it goes to 12mph @ 70mph, if I stay under 60 the mpg goes all the way up to 14.

With the buggies on the back the mileage is only reduced a couple of mpg.

I have a lite Aluminum Canopy so putting anything on or attached to is out of the question. I have a 2 buggy rack I got from Todd and cut and welded and cut and added and cut and welded and welded and cut. Works great but I want it to Swing Baby, you know what they say,"2's company, 3 is just right".:rolleyes:

As WG said "If you can draw it ,I can build it. But ,you better bring money.... " I am hoping to not spend a ton of $$ to get this made, looks like a bit of R$D is ahead of me. :lol:

soliver - 23-10-2012 at 05:02 PM

I thought that might be the case,... It was just a thought :)

What about creating a T from the trailer hitch that sits close to the bumper with a heavy duty pivot on one side attached to a 3 mount rack like what WG showed above. The other side could have some sort of pin that would drop in place to keep it from swinging when you didn't want it to... Whatever upright you had for "tying off" the top (front ends of the bugs) would go between the front and 2nd bug like you want... You could strap it down like WG did for extra stability.

Maybe i'll just email you a doodle ...

csa_deadon - 23-10-2012 at 10:52 PM

Jeff, the class V hitch should be more then enough. What you need to take into consideration, is where you are tying down for stabilization.

With that much weight so close to the hitch, if you tie off to your bed you will eventually break something. remember most pickup beds "float" ie you hit a bump, truck flexes one direction and the bed flexes the other.

Best solution I saw at SOBB this year. Hitch mounted dual buggy rack, that had a second support welded to the receiver frame. That was rock solid, no wiggling at all. I believe it lives in your neck of the woods, at least it lives in Washington. Just look for the red jeep.

bigkid - 24-10-2012 at 08:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by csa_deadon
Hitch mounted dual buggy rack, that had a second support welded to the receiver frame.

Thats what I was thinking, just need to fab it to fit both the truck and RV. Won't need much, just a second point for stabilization.
Been playing around with my 2-bug rack and some 2x4's and then made up a scale model to work out the swing. With the Bigfoots and the swing, (enough to clear the tailgate), I think I have it figured out. More than likely the new wheels for the Sysmic wont fit the rack, Hmmm.
I can offset the bugs to shorten the overall length by a foot or so.

Basically going to have to spend the day with a bunch of buggys, welder, saws, grinders, channel steal, angle iron, square stock, and a cool liquid of some type, to make this work. Might not even come close to the drawing I have, but it will be stupendous.:lol:

bigkid - 16-3-2013 at 10:37 PM

Now that I dont have anytime, and my new bumpers are on, I have started my 3 buggy rack. Between rain storms and phone calls, I now have part of my new rack together. but far from ready to head down the road.

buggy rack (250x188).jpg - 57kB

Scudley - 16-3-2013 at 11:13 PM

Sssssh, there are people here who could use a physics tutor.
S

bigkid - 17-3-2013 at 02:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Scudley
Sssssh, there are people here who could use a physics tutor.
S

Anyone I know? Or is it a Canadian thing?:smilegrin:

BigMikesKites - 17-3-2013 at 04:34 AM

At that point Jeff, I might consider (and have) a small landscapers trailer. You can weld a top on it as well and put a lock on the gate. Just unhitch it when you need to get in the back. Seems a lot less work. let the trailer support the weight.

Scudley - 17-3-2013 at 05:43 AM

Jeff, I don't know if it is a Canadian thing or not. Do American levers not make mechanical advantage in proportion to the ratio of distances from the fulcrum? I went to engineering school in metric, maybe levers don't work that way in SAE.

S

bigkid - 17-3-2013 at 01:05 PM

Like I said, the rack is only started and has yet to be finished, I need to add the swing arm, the clamp system, and a bit of padding. May even change the mount area for the receiver. And of course paint.
As for the trailer idea, my truck is too long to park in any of the parking spaces without hanging out into the traffic, a trailer is not desired. I have 3 trailers as it is, and a landscape trailer is one that I have already.

As for the extra 12 inches of length, and the extra 80 lbs the 3rd buggy will add, I think the plastic 18 lb bumper I removed and replaced it with a 457lb steal bumper with a winch will help to keep the rear wheels on the ground. The new bumper seems to keep the rear wheels from touching the ground most of the time. HaHaHaHaHaHa

front bumper.jpg - 59kB