Power Kite Forum

Kite and paraglider question

TwoWalks - 23-8-2006 at 11:37 AM

If from the subject it does not show ... "I have no experiene with Kites or Paraglider wings." Here is the story:

This next spring, I am going with 5 friends to learn to paraglide. While doing research on the net I stubled across Kiting and Kite carts. It struck me that this would be a fun activity for when things get to ruff for Paragliding. Now the thought has come to mind about learning to kit a paraglider wing. Enough about my brain waves and strange thinking. Question: Is there a kite wing that handles like a paragliding wing that would be good for learning to kite a paraglider wing?

Incase I do not sound like a total retard and someone responds.
Thanks for taking the time
Dee TwoWalks

Tigger - 23-8-2006 at 12:30 PM

Paraglider are designed for flying not pulling, unless you've modified them for speed like the extremist do. You can't do tricks. Blade's are very simular to paraglider except there designed to pull. Although you can get some lift from a Blade the glide ratio is way different.

awindofchange - 23-8-2006 at 01:10 PM

This question has come up from time to time. I will try to answer as best as possible.

Paraglider wings and kites are as different as cars and horses. Each design has its own demands and properties put into the design that really does not work well for the other.

Paraglider wings are designed with optimum glide to lift ratios and their bridling is structured so that the harness (seat and person) helps form the structure of the kite and keep its shape. Control is done through risers and changing the flap of the wing from side to side or both together. Paraglider wings are also huge is size usually around 30 square meters.

Power kites are designed for ultimate control and speed and although they look similar to paragliders in shape, have very low glide to lift ratio's as compared to gliders. Kites also rely more on the air speed and bridling to hold their shape rather than gravity and a localized weight. Control of a kite is done through angle of attack changes and wing pressures that are more pronounced than the flaps on a glider. Most power kites are much smaller in size and range between 2 to 10 square meters. Because of their smaller sizes and lower lift, kites usually work better in stronger winds and have much better control.

That being said I have seen Brian Schenk from Windzup buggy and board with a glider wing in ultra light winds.

Wil a glider wing work with a buggy? Yes but if the winds pick up it could get very ugly. Even flying in light winds you would still not get near the control and performance you would with a kite under normal circumstances. The same would be true if you tried to use a kite as a glider in the higher winds.

That's some of the basics and hopefully it will give you a better idea as to what each type of wing is and how they perform. Kites cost a ton less than a glider wing. I would be in your best interest and safety to just purchase both. That way you can glide when the winds are right and use the kite when the glider wont work.

Hope this helps.

BTW, get in touch with Brian from Windzup if you need more info on gliders or kites. He is a paraglider instructor and is also the U.S. distributor for Ozone power kites.

TwoWalks - 23-8-2006 at 01:51 PM

Thanks for the replies. There is some very usefull information there that I will be looking at in more depth before pruchasing a kite and cart.

I probably was too wordy and missed the main point of my question: Will or can a Kite help with learning ground control and kiting that would transfer over to Paragliding?

again, Many thanks
TwoWalks

Pablo - 23-8-2006 at 09:12 PM

Now there is a couple vids out of kites being used for paragliders, mainly the Flysurfer 17m Speed, but it's extremely dangerous, done by a professional test pilot mainly to win a bet or something to that nature. The bridal on the kite was also somewhat reworked for the experiment. But kites will glide, look at some of the big air snowkiting vids.

You'd want to be using one of the high quality kites, preferrably somoeone who makes paragliders and kites, lots of the tech goes from one to the other as far as manufacturing goes, better quality control as well.

But by the sounds of it, this is many years down the road, for now, get a kite and start flying, take lessons for the paragliding and keep the two of them seperate until you can do both in your sleep.

jonesing4wind - 24-8-2006 at 07:16 AM

I have never flown or even kited a paraglider. But I work with someone who has and he also skydives regularly. We often talk about the similarities and differences between the tech that goes into each. I think that learning to fly a kite WILL help in kiting a paraglider, but only to a limited extent. The first few hours with a kite you are still learning how the wind affects the kite and where the wind window is. These will no doubt be good to know when kiting a paraglider. But the similarity ends there. As soon as you turn around and start getting lifted in a paraglider, you are in NON KITE territory. So YES, I believe prior kite experience will help in the rudimentary basics of kiting a paraglider, but that experience DOES NOT qualify you for piloting a paraglider without the standard training. (Just a little CYA at the end...)

Sean

TwoWalks - 24-8-2006 at 08:04 AM

Sean thanks for the reply. This does help with my question. I do not plan to fly using the kite and I do plan to take training for Paraglider. According to the paraglider school, the hardest part is learning ground handling and kiting (getting the glider over head and controling). This is the part I was wondering about and your reply say Yes.

Thanks again
TwoWalks


Quote:
Originally posted by jonesing4wind
I have never flown or even kited a paraglider. But I work with someone who has and he also skydives regularly. We often talk about the similarities and differences between the tech that goes into each. I think that learning to fly a kite WILL help in kiting a paraglider, but only to a limited extent. The first few hours with a kite you are still learning how the wind affects the kite and where the wind window is. These will no doubt be good to know when kiting a paraglider. But the similarity ends there. As soon as you turn around and start getting lifted in a paraglider, you are in NON KITE territory. So YES, I believe prior kite experience will help in the rudimentary basics of kiting a paraglider, but that experience DOES NOT qualify you for piloting a paraglider without the standard training. (Just a little CYA at the end...)

Sean

Tigger - 24-8-2006 at 08:14 AM

Quote:
Will or can a Kite help with learning ground control and kiting that would transfer over to Paragliding?



The answerer is basically yes, it would be very similar to learning to ride your bicycle backwards. For instance: If you are in a kite harness, you will be facing the wing. When in a paraglide harness, you are facing away from the wing.

awindofchange - 24-8-2006 at 10:59 AM

I have done both but I must say that my knowledge on the paragliders is very limited. I have done much more kiting than gliding. Ground control on the glider is not going to be anything like ground control of the kite. With the glider you are strapped into the glider through your harness. Harness is the terminology used but what it really is is a complete compression seat & harness assembly that is connected directly to the risers of the glider. You will need to learn which risers you will be operating to control the glider and which ones you need to stay away from. The risers are the lines running from your harness to different parts of the glider. These are usually color coded to make it easier to identify. The training for ground control is needed because you will be facing the glider during setup, this means that all of your risers will be twisted 180 degrees - right hand risers will be on the left side ofyou and left hand risers will be on the right. Your instructor should help you identify where to hold onto the risers, how to pull the glider up overhead and check that all of your risers are clear, how to spin around in your harness (big seat connected to your backside) while the glider is down and then how to launch the glider and then yourself.

Kites are very different because you are facing the kite at all times during flight. Right side goes to the right hand, left side etc... You are usually not connected directly to the bridle of the kite but instead are connected to the flying lines that run from the bridle to your control system wether that would be handles, straps, or a control bar (the bridle is pretty much the same thing as the risers of a glider).

As stated above tho, any knowledge you gain about the wind will definatly help you in both paragliding as well as kiting. I know a lot of paragliders who also enjoy kiting and do both depending on what the wind is doing at the time. The nice thing about kiting is that the kites take up minimal amount of room when packed away and can be left in your car trunk or even stuffed under the seat...which makes it perfect for a quick stop at the park or any other time that the wind is blowing and you want to fly.

TwoWalks - 24-8-2006 at 07:38 PM

Ok sounds like at best it would help but be very confusing as a new person. I think I will go ahead and get with the paraglider school and pre purchase the wing and practice kiting with the wing I will learn on.

again, thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer my question ... When the time comes and I get ready to get a trike and a kite, I will no doubt have many more questions .. until then ... I will continue to read this forum and learn.

TwoWalks

Scanman - 25-8-2006 at 01:13 PM

I met a guy at the park with a 9m Flysurfer Taco, which can be hooked up as a paraglider trainer. I flew it with my landboard, it wasn't too impressive as a kite, but the winds were really unstable that day.