saskalex - 21-12-2012 at 02:51 PM
When I got into kiting I bought a Dakine Storm seat harness. Not bad, but the "leg loops" (aka crotch straps) can be quite uncomfortable. Particularly
when putting your legs in certain positions. I tried an Ocean Rodeo Session harness (waist with removable leg loops) briefly for a while, but it
really crushed my ribs and I didn't like the high attachment point. So I went back to the Storm, which I've been using for my (very limited) kite
skiing for the past six or so years.
I've always thought there must be something better, and I eventually decided to try modding the Storm. My idea, in a nutshell, was to add some webbing
which ran down your legs all the way to your feet (and under your shoe, or something- more on that later). The webbing would be secured to some knee
pads to make sure it follows your knee when you bend your leg. This would stop the harness from riding up, and the crotch straps could be removed
entirely.
I went ahead and tried my mods. I haven't cut out the crotch straps yet, but they definitely are no longer needed. I have them loosened right up, and
they don't take any weight. I've been out on this for two short sessions. I wasn't particularly powered up in either session, but I did get some
decent jumps during the first session and some small one during the second. The harness was very comfortable. Hardly noticed the knee pads around my
knees, there was no weight on the crotch straps, and I didn't even have to tighten the harness up much. You could really wear it quite loose, if you
wanted to.
Right now, I have a some straps that go under my ski boots that the harness ataches too. These straps are fed through ladder lock buckles at the
bottom of the harness, which allows you to put on the harness on, then your boots, then connect the two. It's pretty ugly right now. It will also need
different means of attachment depending on your footwear. Ski and snowboard boots are easy, because they are supportive and don't allow your ankle to
flex much. Still, I think this has real potential for people who just can't find a comfortable harness. It also allows much greater freedom of
movement compared to leg loops.
I'm kind of busy right now, so I don't know how much more experimenting I'll get around to, athough I think this is already quite a functional harness
(for ski/snowboard boots anyways). I just thought I'd post my results so far in case anyone else is interested in trying something like this. If so, I
have a lot more info and tips I could give, just thought I'd see if there was interest first.
Alex
Feyd - 21-12-2012 at 04:44 PM
Makes your butt look fat.:D
Looks like you put some serious effort into this. Good job. =)
saskalex - 22-12-2012 at 01:25 PM
Yup, seat harnesses aren't exactly flattering. At least it will stop showing off your junk if I cut the leg loops out.
I honestly thought there would be some more interest in a design like this. Are people generally happy with the harnesses they use? I had the feeling
that many people found some aspect of their harness uncomfortable or resitricting. Or maybe the complexity of a design like this just isn't worth it.
I hope it's not the ugly green knee pads putting people off! I mostly just used what I had lying around.
zero gee - 22-12-2012 at 01:53 PM
There is the cool factor that is a huge part of kiteboarding. This has none, sorry. Maybe for snow (or land) if it were all incorporated into
snowboard pants it would get more interest??
A local kiter here made his own snowboard pants that had the harness built in a la the Dakine Nitrous shorts.
Snake - 22-12-2012 at 02:34 PM
I agree with zero on it's not for water. I hate having wet clothes on my body. Shorts are bad enough. This would drive me insane. But putinging this
in snow pants is a great idea. The built in knee pads are a bonus. One problem though, it seems like it might restrict leg movement. you can see in
the last 2 pictures that the straps go from tight to loose. If your harness slides up while it is loose, you may not be able to move your legs and
land with straight legs. I'm not trying to discourage you, I just don't want anyone to get hurt.
andy666 - 22-12-2012 at 03:45 PM
Run Forrest. Run. 
I have been using a libre delux harness in the buggy for a few years and it was fine. However once I started jumping the buggy the harness has been
riding up more. I guess because the kite spends a lot of time directly above me rather then out to the side and the libre harness has crapy leg loops.
So I simply added a pair of leg loops from a climbing harness and problem solved. Super comfy and holds the harness in place.
saskalex - 22-12-2012 at 04:03 PM
Coolness factor- didn't see that being a huge problem. Well, I wasn't really thinking of water anyway. I can understand not wanting to walk down a
busy beach looking like a spaceman. As for snowkiting, I really don't think the average snowkiter cares as much- there just aren't that many people
that see you up close. Not where I go, at least. And anyone who already wears a seat harness has surely lost any coolness factor, no?
Like I said, this was mostly with stuff I had lying around the house. With lower profile black knee pads and black webbing, you'd hardly notice it
agaisnt a pair of ski pants. I was hoping to get it under my ski pants (one piece suit, actually, so that tells you how much I care about coolness
factor) but these knee pads are too bulky. With lower profile ones it should go under pants pretty easily.
Snake- leg movement is far less restricted than it is with leg loops. And no nut crunching, either. The key is in putting the "joints" in the webbing
at the right spots. When set right, it remains under virtually constant tension throught your whole range of motion. If you really are comparing the
last two photos, the last one was just to show how it comes apart at the bottom ladder lock buckles. It will never do that under normal operation.
The whole idea of this harness was to transfer the pull (when the kite is above you) right down to your feet, instead of your crotch or your ribs. I'm
very happy with the comfort and range of motion so far. It wasn't a very robust build, so if I do a version 2 that might actually last, I might see if
I can make it little less conspicuous.
Alex
saskalex - 22-12-2012 at 04:06 PM
Andy- I'd be interested if you have any pictues of your harness. When you buggy jump, your hips are still quite bent, are they not? When you're bent
at the hips it's easier to make comfortable leg loops. Standing up straighter, they ride up and the weight goes on your crotch.
carltb - 22-12-2012 at 05:32 PM
the snowboard pants sounds like a good idea. you could saw webbing down the legs and end it in a stirup. then have some buckles at the top to attach
it to your harness. my friends who snow kite regular have waist harnesses but also wear a climbing harness and attach it to the spreader bar.
B-Roc - 22-12-2012 at 08:25 PM
I admire your ingenuity and your attempt to make a good thing better. I don't like the way my seat harness pinches the left side of my groin if I'm
jumping a lot - it gets really painful and I can't seem to adjust that problem away (might have to do with my anatomy as my right groin is fine but
the left is really painful.
But while I admire the ingenuity I can't see myself boarding with that type of setup as it just looks REAL busy. I do like the idea of incorporating
the knee pads especially if the harness keeps them in place as mine tend to slip down my legs.
Your idea is great and rev 1 is super for what it is. I just think it needs a little more streamlining or to be built into a pair of pants for it to
be widely adopted.
saskalex - 22-12-2012 at 10:11 PM
B-Roc, do you landboard or snowboard? I don't know why, but I think on top of a pair of snow pants, it won't matter much if it's busy (with black
webbing, anyways, and assuming it's made so nothing gets caught or tangled easily). Summer, yeah, I can see that being different. Especially with
shorts on. And the means of attachment to your feet would be more difficult- you'd need to allow ankle flexing without changing the length of the
webbing path.
The knee pads do stay in place extremely well though, and you don't even need any straps going behind your leg. I've never tried overly good knee
pads, but I've always found the straps to be annoying.
andy666 - 23-12-2012 at 02:58 AM
Here are a few pics of my libre delux seat harness with black diamond climbing harness leg loops.
The problem i found with the delux harness is that all the load bearing webbing runs around the outside of the legs. This means that there is nothing
to hold the front of the harness down and stop it from riding up.
The climbing harness leg loops hold the front of the harness down and spread the load evenly around the leg.
Yes i use the harness in a buggy, so it is naturally less inclined to ride up. But even when launching, landing and mucking around static flying the
harness is a LOT more comfy.
zracek - 23-12-2012 at 07:09 AM
That harness will solve your problem (crotch straps)
Ziggy.
http://peterlynn.com/products/accessories/harnesses/peter-ly...
herc - 23-12-2012 at 07:44 AM
saskalex, very good ! i had the same idea for a long time, but never prototyped it.
i am more into paragliding lately. in paragliding, one often does extensive "groundhandling" sessions, kiting your paraglider on the ground to get a
feel for its reactions, to train launching and collapse recovere etc.
with the usual paragliding harnesses, this also involves a lot of nut cracking experiences - because essentially a paragliding harness is not that
much different from a kiting seat harness (also two separate leg loops. the even worse "get-up" type harness is even worse-here the leg loops go
straight over your genetic database...)
so - your idea and implementation needs further refinement, i would love to see it going to perfection. go on ! good work !
p.s. here is a cross-over harness, that might be interesting for some kiting guys:
http://www.korteldesign.com/spip/?Karver,144
it is the same harness that is used by sylvain for crossover kite flying and sand+watersurfing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSsKAzyKzhc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVUpGL9xQQ8
this harness has big leg loops similiar to a climbing harness, that does not slide up too much, if you bend the knees enough. but additional retainers
like you did could help to avoid any stresses on the only important male part.
elnica - 24-12-2012 at 07:25 AM
kiting involves a lot of gear and time setting up. It seems like this would just add to the complexity and I don't see the added value to make up for
it.
If you find a niche to fill with the harness that makes up for the added complexity, the product could work.
Also, one of those straps goes OVER the knee pad, what happens when you fall a few times and it rips?