I am asking for the truth to be said. I am a big kid and getting chewed out is something that is part of my life.
If I deserve it, fine.
If I don't deserve it, I am fine with that also.
I say things that pass by those that have no ability to understand and on the flip side of that, things that cut to the heart of those that have a
heart. I am not out to PO anyone, just the opposite.
"I can do anything I want, it doesn't effect you in the least way, just pretend I don't exist." I have heard those words and seen the results. I get
very tired of those that force me to deal with stuff that I did not want to be part of. Thats life. If I can say something to make you stop and think
for 1 tiny second, than you are the winner, not me. You thought for a second and thats a good thing.
No names are needed and you can vote incognito.cheezycheese - 11-2-2013 at 01:57 PM
Geez, what a P.I.T.A. I've never know a bigger one !!! But, you're alright in my book... Keep doin what you're doing. Life is like a Waltz, every now
and then you may step on someone's toes. If it wasn't intentional keep moving...
I vote no..!!cheezycheese - 11-2-2013 at 02:06 PM
Besides, nobody really uses the search function like they should. How many times can you answer the "gee, what first kite should I get..."
question...? I have been on other forums where you will get reamed for not a least doing a little research in your topic before asking a question. And
that reaming comes EvEry time. This forum is very tolerant of things like that. If every now and again there is a flare up its a small price to pay.rocfighter - 11-2-2013 at 02:06 PM
OK I voted. But unlike Cheezy I'm not saying which way I voted.erratic winds - 11-2-2013 at 02:10 PM
I think those that have experience will scream/shout loudly to try and prevent others from earning that experience. (Don't they say good judgement is
something you don't get til you earn it with experience?)
I can see both sides of it.
I see that Jeff/BigKidKites has had a life-changing event while doing part of the sport that has brought us all here, and that he greatly wishes that
no-one ever suffers the way he has and does.
I also see that this desire to protect us from this experience may make him over-react to some who wish to gain more information, like the thread that
spurred this post. That user appeared to want to know "What is everything that went wrong" and some posts were very "BAD. BAD. BAD DOG, NO. BAD.",
which doesn't help gain understanding.
TO ANYONE WHO IS AFRAID OF ASKING A QUESTION: like a user said in that other thread....ASK. You might not like the answer, but not having the answer
isn't going to help you.
"Oh, but that guy won't affect me!" Well, when someone gets your favorite spot banned, yeah, that crazy fool does affect you. We must be custodians
of our group and our environment if we wish to keep using them. I certainly know I don't have the best rep at some local spots because of how often I
remind people of the rules...(wear a $%^&$%&$% HELMET), but I don't care, because I want to keep riding there after all others have
quit/broken/retired.
too long didn't read version = please continue to be loud jeff, but ensure that someone is asking a dumb question before you truly unload on them.
Me? Personally? His story moved me from "personal protective equipment is a good idea" to "ALL THE ARMOR, ALL THE TIME".joedy - 11-2-2013 at 02:18 PM
There's a difference from being critical and being an ass; some folks just have a harder time understanding the disparity.
We were all new at this once and Newbies are always going to ask the same questions over and over. There's no sense in speaking so harshly that we
turn them away. All they will end up doing is hurting themselves, someone else or getting a location banned from the sport.
Yeah, I've made some bad mistakes and got some bruises and some lasting scars. I've been fortunate enough to have escaped serious injury, but I still
take the time to mentor new flyers with a sense of guidance instead of belittling them and making them feel stupid for asking questions in the first
place.
-joedyelfasa - 11-2-2013 at 02:47 PM
I wouldn't say so.
One of the points of a public forum like this is to express your opinion, and listen to others. There's not much point coming here if your not willing
to deal with either of those points...
TimBEC - 11-2-2013 at 03:08 PM
^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
opps sorry wrong post
If we always say how our forum is like family.. Then you should be able to say what you want...like it or not...and then continue being family!
BiG KiD...I've never met you, but from the fun games you play, to the generous prize give aways, and the knowledge I've gained from your previous
posts...I would vote.... "NO" too...
I'm harsh on my own kids sometimes ( age 9 & 11) , but I'm only trying to make them think and be safer...Bigbear97e - 11-2-2013 at 03:38 PM
norocfighter - 11-2-2013 at 03:50 PM
For the record when I voted there was all NO votes. So it was a joke about not saying what I voted. Now there are yes and no votes. So for the
unofficial record. I voted NO I think you speak your mind and some times in an upfront manor. But so do I and I don't find myself to be critical. Or
am I?BeamerBob - 11-2-2013 at 03:54 PM
I thought in the other post, your response was very misplaced. You roasted the guy that asked the question saying you would never want to fly
anywhere around him..... ever...... among other harsh things. I didn't see anything in his post that indicated he needed a reaming at all. He posted
nothing about his opinion or intentions on the matter to warrant being reprimanded or made to feel he is ostracized from our community for asking for
opinions. Where and to whom should he ask the question if not here? Remember, we all started out knowing nothing at all about this.
That being said, I'm standing right beside you when someone is about to hurt themselves or others, or their behavior is going to cause restrictions or
banning of our activity.acampbell - 11-2-2013 at 04:04 PM
I agree with the sentiment that the poster of the thread what could have prevented this accident was asking a fair question about an old video that has been around for years, posted here many times,
and prolly most of us have seen. There is a lot of these kind of "jackass" vids out there.
Think about all the times that newbies have come here (most welcome) and asked about kite jumping, whereupon a lot of us here go "awe jeeze, here we
go again" and roll up our sleeves to type out a thoughtful response that includes a balance of encouragement and caution. I for one have a library of
.txt files with answers to FAQ's that I can cut and paste from in order to ease my clumsy typing.
On the other hand, Jeff, I know that you have a unique perspective and therefore maybe more sensitive to the topic than most here. But as dealers
anyway, perhaps more than others*, I feel we have an obligation to welcome all legitimate questions and to be patient with those that ask fair
questions about a lot of crap and cautionary tales that are out there.
*I do not think we always know better than others, but we need to culture the newcomers and not discourage them.zalex820 - 11-2-2013 at 04:48 PM
Big kid ill be %100 honest with you. I signed up on this forum for information and possibly making a few friends and most of you guys have been very
helpful. I know you guys saved me a trip to the hospital already. I was going to fly one day and it was windy as hell and I thought I probably
shouldn't fly due to lack of experience. Once I got to the field I remembered someone telling me to put that kite away and forget I have it for a
while.i then turned around and went home. And I thank all of you for trying to help. On the flip side I asked a simple question and got chewed out by
a fellow member.i wont mention names theres no need for it. But I guess it is what it is and not everyone can get along and I'm fine with that. I
don't mind being told not to do something but that could have been worded very differently. I'm not the type of person to let that kind of stuff phase
me but I'm sure it would other people and discourage them from this forum and kiting. I know I'm a "newbie " and not known here yet but the reason I'm
here is to learn from the best and not hurt myself or anyone else. When I seen that comment from you in " what could have prevented this accident"
first thing I thought was holy $@&? I would not want to even meet you let alone fly with you because I will probably get criticized. That was a
bit harsh and shouldn't have been answered like that. Sorry for writing so much but maybe this will shine some light on your question.sand flea - 11-2-2013 at 05:58 PM
It's a public forum.
It's cool Jeff.shaggs2riches - 11-2-2013 at 06:43 PM
I think you can reserve the right to be as harsh as you like. Seeing what you have gone through based off of bad situation that even with experience
you couldn't have foreseen happening. Sure sometimes maybe that harshness is in the wrong place at the wrong time. But being straight forward and
blunt gets your point across and probably saved one or two people a trip to the hospital. Keep doing what you are doing because its working.ChrisH - 11-2-2013 at 06:43 PM
Hmmm, you've seen me buggy without a helmet a few times, as well as others, and never said anything. You've never been that way out at the beach when
people are being "unsafe". You seem to have a stronger opinion here on the forum but I wouldn't say you're overly critical. I think that you just
really care about people's well being and don't want bad things to happen to them. For people that don't know you, you might come off on the rude side
of things. For those of us who have hung out with you in person, we know you mean well. Just being honest here.lucky_13 - 11-2-2013 at 07:34 PM
Jeff, you seem to want to help the sport out with all the give aways and games you do for every one. I think it's an awesome thing. Some might think
its harsh but, if they read your past post they will understand were you are coming from and its tough love. Sure, you cold have candy coated it and
maybe it would of been heard . But one thing is for sure, anyone just starting out in the sport when they read your comment, they will be sure to
think twice before they kite jump. Some people need a good hard kick in the crack so they will not end up on you tube. As for Generotti, I dont think
he was thinking of doing that. His i.d. shows he has been a member since 2010 . Anyway you look at it Jeff, I know a lot of new kiters will not try
jumping because of how you stated your comment. And for that, I give you props! It would be an honor to fly with you and any other O.G.'s who has the
guts to stand up for what they believe in . I vote no bro keep on doing what you do !!!crazyherb - 11-2-2013 at 07:34 PM
If being critical keeps me...., you, or any other member of this forum out of intensive care unit. Then, by all means, keep being critical.... I value
your experience and comments...keep rocking the boat!! I like waves... :singing:BeamerBob - 11-2-2013 at 08:00 PM
I consider Jeff a friend and we talk off forum from time to time, but I'm not sure I understand some of these posts. Just for clarification, what did
the original poster in this thread do to deserve the response he got? What was he about to do to harm himself or others? The very nature of the question he asked
indicated he figured multiple things were wrong with the situation and was asking what more experienced fliers thought they were so he could learn
from us.4mylifetime - 11-2-2013 at 08:11 PM
One thing we all have to remember is that we all were newbies at one point.
What seems like a dumb question to some (or asked again and again) but to that someone who is new, has just taken their first lesson, and has not
gained experience, may be a sincere question to them - hence why they are asking the question. It also might be their first week on the forum...
I posted a question when I first joined over a year and a half ago and was told sarcastically "why did I not search first" before I asked the
question. First of all, being new to these "forums" I had no idea how to even do that. And second, even now, for example, type in "best first kite to
buy" and it returns "no matches were found" - not exactly an easy function to figure out how to use.
When I first read your answer to the writers question I thought, Holy crap buddy, a little too direct.
I am not aware of your history and your passion behind your response. I'm sure it is well founded.
Sometimes we need to just read and ignore posts.
I think we all need to constantly help those learning - those asking questions or assisting on the beach, however we can, which in turn those actions
will truly protect our sport in the long run. Often when someone tells someone not to do something without an explanation and the person does not
understand - don't a lot not just go away somewhere else and do it anyway! (getting hurt, hurting others, or damaging something, or god forbid -
banning access)
This sport was not easy to learn until it "all comes together" - then it seems easy. And how many mistakes did we all make and learn from before that
happened? I know I made some and I continue to make some while I am still learning.....shaggs2riches - 11-2-2013 at 08:51 PM
I had not read that post prior to this. There were some pretty blunt words said there for sure. I stand by though that generally speaking, a lot of
the bluntness is most of the time acceptable enough to get a good point across. Attacking someone isn't nice coming from anyone though, so I could
understand the concern. I think a bad couple years of some of the toughest pain and a whole lot of drugs to numb it, might make many people a tad
harsher than normal. Not relating to the other thread busines, I think a lot of what bigkid says and means is meant to be taken as a stern warning to
pay close attention, so you can end every session driving home in the same condition you started. It's too bad that the Internet makes it tough to
read people's personality, which can leave a bad impression if something is taken the wrong way.bigkid - 11-2-2013 at 09:54 PM
I could type all day and talk till I'm blue in the face, and it would change nothing.
I said what I said because he has been a member for 2+ years. He asked, "What is he doing wrong, and how can accidents like this be prevented other
than staying out of high winds with a lack of experience?" Really? What is he doing wrong?
If I would have had the chance to be at the field the moment the kid went for his ride, I would have gone into First Responder mode. All the while
taking care of the problem and making sure that the situation is secured and the kid is put in the hands of those that are paid to help. And all the
while I would have been thinking that this could have been prevented and I would have asked the questions along the way about his pain, comfort, and
needs. And at some point he would have known with out a doubt, he screwed up big time.
Maybe I'm getting old, or the kids are getting younger, but is it that hard to see what went wrong? Are we so out of touch that we take it for granted
that others are in charge of our well being? Don't we have some common cents, at least a penny?
Maybe I was hard on the guy with my answer, Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut.
Problem is, that if you don't agree with the things that others do or say, and you do not voice your concern, guess what? You are in agreement with
them. If you don't speak up about a crime you saw happen, you are the crooks best friend.
And for Chris, about your helmet, I asked "don't you wear a helmet?" you smiled at me and sped off in the buggy. OK, that's your choice. I don't hate
anyone, or go out of my way to rain on their parade. I end the conversation with a question such as, "what type of flowers would you like me to bring
to the funeral?" A smile and a chuckle to boot, they got the point, I get to buggy with them again.
I can't watch Funniest Home Video's or Wacked out Sports, because it turns my stomach. I have had to leave after a helping a buggier that broke a few
ribs from an OBE. Good thing the sand was soft enough to dig a hole with my foot and after leaving my cookies in the hole cover it up. Same thing
with the video of the kid going air born, did not see the ending. I lived it, felt it, heard the snap, crackle, and pop. Every time.
generotti, if you are able to make it to NABX, look me up, I would like to meet you and have a cold one while we talk. I would love to get to know
you. If not NABX, how about WW or Jibe? That goes for anyone, anytime, anywhere. I don't hold anything against those of you that disagree with me,
any more than those that told me after my accident, that I need to learn how to fly my kite before I get in the buggy again. Funny how so many people
knew what happened when they weren't there. Only one person saw what happened, and dozens of others told me what I did wrong.
I will word my responses a bit different from now on. Don't think for a moment I will sugar coat it and ask for your forgiveness for being a pain in
your back side. Take note my friends, I can be a real pain at times, and I can be the nicest guy around. Take it with a grain of salt, and live to
complain about it later to my face. I will be glad to hear you chew me out. I wont be so glad to visit you for the last time.nocando - 11-2-2013 at 11:10 PM
I voted
Big Kid is a straight shooter wouldnt want it any other way
Just sayin.
:saint::saint::saint::saint::saint:bigE123 - 12-2-2013 at 05:50 AM
Don't be too harsh on yourself bigKid, I think that post was a poor attempt at a joke. If it was meant as a serious post then he deserved everything
he got. Powerkiting is deemed an extreme sport due to the potential dangers involved, get it wrong or take liberties it's only going to end one way.
Now we all can get it wrong at some point, but with experience and protection we can limit the outcome, take the p!ss and ignore advice now that is
something else. We will all ultimately pay the price with restrictions to the sport.
Swedish Neutral mediator Sven here....
skimtwashington - 12-2-2013 at 07:15 AM
Criticism and counter opinions are great...especially from a knowledgable source. Great learning.
I don't know the intent of the original question that begat this related thread based on one response. As one person said, "..you answered your own
question..".
Too critical of someone who asked a question? Is that what's being asked now in this thread?
I think when someone watches something(said film) and it creates anxiety- or they have some difficulty logically or emotionally( more so) to fully
comprehend it...awkward questions(or not awkward ) may come up. They may be old, visited, tired questions, or incisive thought provoking ones. Trying
to understand how something horrific can happen...and be prevented..might be happening....?
The responses can also by quite diverging and just as awkward.
The only awkward response is if it gets personal to the one who asks the question..and doesn't address the question itself.
You might ask who thought this was a stupid question? That may be quite telling to the opinion you're seeking. Not the first or last time a
question has shifted focus from the question, to the person asking it, by others on any forum.
The surrounding statements of any question paint an opinion of the' inquisitor' to there own question. Critical opinion , opposition, agreemeement may
certainly follow.
But I only heard a question.
How much can we derive from just the original question? All I can derive is that he thinks-for jumpers- avoiding high wind and/or having required
experience is a rule. Can't know if he ever plans to jump..in any wind.... or be out in a high wind...or whatever from the question.
So... one might ask was the response,"...the fact that you have to ask is nothing more than the simple proof that you are not, should not, and will
never be, a person I would want to fly with, around, or in the same town with.", too critical....too personal?.....Was this the stateement that "am I
too critical " was based on? Ultimately- with or without others opinions- you will answer this yourself, and have already started.
Do you see a bit of anxiety in the inquisitor and responder both? Do you see good intent in both-despite if there was any lack of presentation? Do you
see a happy ending ? I already see a hand extended...humility..and a
beer on tap!
BTW: Although we are neutral here in Sweden and I give no personal opinions here in this thread....I have to break that rule to say we are against
anything Rocfighter has ever said on this forum!...:wink2:cheezycheese - 12-2-2013 at 07:23 AM
^^^^^^Bladerunner - 12-2-2013 at 07:53 AM
Your contribution to this forum and power kiting in general is extremely valuable. I don't think many are more passionate about the sport than you.
A big part of this forums purpose is to bring folks into the sport safely. It is great that you promote it .
I just don't feel that being critical of members for asking nieve questions about safety makes them feel confident to ask another question . The whole
sport is so overwelming at 1st that we forget how unclear things can be.snowspider - 12-2-2013 at 08:43 AM
To answer the question "Am I too critical" , no , this is a forum of thoughts , opinions , ideas, critical can be expected. Are you a little harsh ,
yea , sometimes , but you almost always come back to say "that may have been harsh but I still stand by its intent". Some times your a little BAM in
your face, oh well ,thats you , its not bad its just BAM. Information , thoughts , opinions from those who have "been there done that" are the solid
substance of this forum , who would want it any other way! I just read the original post and response , OH THAT IS HARSH. I guess
, if you can , when you get that "why you dumb*ss" feeling you count to 5 (10 is way too long, I start to feel stupid after 5) then you can start in
on him with a little more peace and clarity.abkayak - 12-2-2013 at 08:54 AM
can i vote twice??thanson2001ok - 12-2-2013 at 09:01 AM
There is probably one thing that every serious pilot on this forum agrees with, the need to fly safely. The reasons are numerous.
How to fly safely is an important topic that should be addressed honestly here. I bet we all agree with this too.
So, how do we communicate effectively to those that need the advice, and at times those that need rebuke? I contend that a firmly placed head butt is
NOT the best way to get the message across, regardless of whether we are trying to save the inquiring pilot, our sport or the world. At least not at
first.
Look, a lot of people come to PKF to seek advice. And we want them to continue to do so, right? So, draft a response to questions about irresponsible
and/or unsafe flying. Be honest. And then, scrub all the emotion and personal jabs out of it before you post it.
Flaming someone pushes them away from the advice they so desperately need. So, in the end our well-intended and impassioned head butt is counter
productive.
Jeff, your messages are almost always on target. My advice is if you truly want to make a positive impact on people and the sport, take the edge off.
At least the first time....
And if people won't listen, well, I suggest we all head butt the *&^@# knucklehead and monkey pile! Suds after thuds - 12-2-2013 at 09:15 AM
call it like you see it Jeff, maybe a little less venom, but when things get you riled, poison can be hard not to spit. And once one has read about
your history, it#s understandable where the feelings are coming from
no voteProletariat - 13-2-2013 at 02:34 PM
Hey bigkid, "too" has two O's. Sheesh... totally too critical
From my experience with ya, I've only ever received a straight answer with no BS. You always cut right to the heart of the matter, even it's not
necessarily what I wanted to hear. Sometimes I've read some stuff that's like, "don't be a moron, moron," which is probably a little harsh for the
general populace, but I can't say I wasn't thinking the same thing .
Also, regarding the search function, it's not very good. I search all the time before I post and rarely receive results that I know for a fact are
out there. I really appreciate everyone being so tolerant of repeated questions (within reason, obviously). If you really wanna see "too critical,"
go to a linux forum and ask a question without searching. The black-tshirt, ponytail guys will make you feel like a child.bigkid - 13-2-2013 at 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Proletariat
From Also, regarding the search function, it's not very good. I search all the time before I post and rarely receive results that I know for a fact
are out there.
I was thinking the same thing, maybe a section called info, or info, or even info, or something like that tooooooooooo :-)alasdair macleod - 13-2-2013 at 04:56 PM
Hell no your not!!!!!!!!!!!!!ChrisH - 13-2-2013 at 07:47 PM
Jeff, I honestly don't recall you saying that but that doesn't mean you didn't say it. I'm sure you did. I do wear a helmet now, every time I buggy.
If I ever get a bunch of money I'd like to get more protective gear as well.
Regarding the search function, it sucks butt. I think this forum needs a tune-up in general as there are a few things that don't function properly and
haven't since I joined the forum in 2010. They have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum and never fixed because there's always a workaround. I have
a type A personality, I don't like workarounds, but I like this forum so much I'm willing to deal with it. acampbell - 14-2-2013 at 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Proletariat
Also, regarding the search function, it's not very good. I search all the time before I post and rarely receive results that I know for a fact are
out there.
Yeah the PKF Search feature is basically non-functional, but if you do a Google search on key words for your topic and include "PKF" or "Power Kite
Forum" with your key words, you will get what you are looking for most of the time.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I already see a hand extended...humility..and a
beer on tap!