Power Kite Forum

bridle replacement

bigkid - 15-2-2013 at 10:23 AM

Thought I would touch on a subject that I was aware of but didn't think much about.

One of my jobs for PKD is fixing/repairing kites, lines, and handles, along with a few other things.

I just spent 6 hours removing the entire bridle of a Combat 8.6m and replacing it with a new set of lines. Everything but the brake lines are new and improved material. I left the brake lines because it really has no bearing on the flying aspect of the kite, just the landing and turning. I have the rest of the material to do the brakes if need be but for now, we will see.
I set up a board and installed a bunch of hooks in the same configure as the kite, and added a second set of hooks next to each one, I then hung the new lines on the hooks according to the lay out and then began to remove the ones off the kite and hung them on the board next to the new corresponding lines.
Now, working on a 4'x8' table with a 8.6m kite is a bit small and I needed to figure a system to make things a bit easier.

Long story short, the new bridle is now on the kite and it looks great. I will try it out tomorrow and see how I did.

My point that I wanted to share is the fact that it took me 6 hours and a couple of short breaks to get the power lines removed and replaced. How much is my time worth? The job was done to the precise degree that a high end kite demands. So, now I am thinking about the person who cut the material and sewed it together. The person who cut and made each bridle line, and installed it on the kite. Now the cost of a high end kite is going to be more than the cheaper models because of the extra work in the design, the areas of reinforcement, and the quality of the material, and the time to put it all together.
I have had a kite or too that has had a problem of some sort that was so obviously overlooked, I asked myself if the person was at break before they finished the kite.
Well, folks, I have a greater degree of appreciation for the ability of those that sew for a living. those that are on a factory assembly line producing the wonderful toys I have the joy of playing with. I will continue to fix the odd things that come up from time to time on the products that come from all the kite companies, I will now relay the response to the appropriate person at each company, to let them know how much I appreciate the work they do. Not to say that some are not thinking about much more than money, but there are those that take pride in what they do and what they produce. Those that show pride in their work, need to be acknowledged from time to time.
2 people that come to mind that we all know here on the forum is Popeye and Kieron.

I need to make a call and tell a few people that I do not envy them in the least bit, but I am grateful for the work they do. I hope they are paid well, because I did the bridle replacement for free, I couldn't justify charging my hourly rate for the replacement. Heck, I wouldn't pay me either.


And before I forget, I think the sewn bridle lines and knotted lines are going to be a thing of the past with the introduction of some of the new line materials and some old technology.:smug:

awindofchange - 15-2-2013 at 12:11 PM

Replacing bridles is a very tedious job. I have done many re-bridling jobs and they are not high on my fun list!!!

If you think your PKD was a task.....let me invite you over next time I have to re-bridle a Skytiger Hi 80. LOL It takes me about 3 days to do one and it isn't cheap!!!

Ozone makes one of the easier bridles to change. They sell complete replacement bridles so you don't have to spend hours sewing bridle ends which is nice.

One of the issues you have with re-bridling kites is that the bridle and the kite stretches out over time, because of this it is not recommended to use the existing bridle as a template and instead, you need to get the original specs from the manufacturer to get the bridle back to it's correct settings. Because the sail stretches out over time, replacing the bridle never brings the kite back to factory new condition - but if it gets to that point it is usually a huge improvement over what it was.

What is this new material that doesn't need knots or sewing?

bigkid - 15-2-2013 at 03:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange
What is this new material that doesn't need knots or sewing?


If the kite wasnt packed into the RV, I would take a pic of it. I will get one this weekend and show it if not sooner...
It's one of those PKD ideas that eliminates the bridle from catching on itself. Kind of a no brainer idea.

indigo_wolf - 15-2-2013 at 05:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange
you need to get the original specs from the manufacturer to get the bridle back to it's correct settings.


One of the reasons why I wish more manufacturers would include bridle weights and segment lengths in their PDF manuals or as a PDF addendum.

ATB,
Sam

Bladerunner - 15-2-2013 at 05:44 PM

You should make a point of getting to know the folks from Conceptair when at WBB. They have remained small because they do all the work in house . TOP quality work !

LCL or breakaway segments between the bridle and canopy make this job much quicker.

I see that Pansh has copied Flysurfer with these on the Aurora. I think they are a fantastic thing and wonder why other companies don't use them ? Copyright issues ?

B-Roc - 15-2-2013 at 06:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner

LCL or breakaway segments between the bridle and canopy make this job much quicker.

...and wonder why other companies don't use them ? Copyright issues ?


Agreed, but can't see a larksheaded bridle segment being a copyright issue. My guess is that it is an extra work issue to make all those little LCLs.

I also agree with Sam. I can understand kite makers not wanting to just give out their bridle plans as that makes copying them all the more easy but they should make them much more readily accessible. Hats off to FS for doing that.

IKON kites does not used stiched bridles. IIRC they sew the bridle right into the canopy or something to that effect so there are no knots / loops at the attachement points.

bigkid - 16-2-2013 at 12:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by indigo_wolf
Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange
you need to get the original specs from the manufacturer to get the bridle back to it's correct settings.


One of the reasons why I wish more manufactures would include bridle weights and segment lengths in their PDF manuals or as a PDF addendum.

ATB,
Sam

I take that info out of the kite before its sold, but it is available if you buy a PKD kite.

B-Roc - 16-2-2013 at 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bigkid
I take that info out of the kite before its sold, but it is available if you buy a PKD kite.


Do you mean you personally measure it before its used or you take it out so the consumer can't see it?

John Holgate - 16-2-2013 at 02:26 PM

Quote:

I take that info out of the kite before its sold,


If it's with the kite from the factory, why would you take it out?

edit: oh, I think I see what you might mean - you take the measurements from the kite. ooops... I think this now a duplicate post of the one above...

bigkid - 17-2-2013 at 12:50 AM

I remove the data sheet for 2 reasons,
1- most of the people have no clue what it is and throw it away.
2- I keep the info for later problems with the kite, customer, or both. Who made it, who put it together, who was the QC, what batch, what number, etc.
If the new owner wants the info, not a problem.

Had one guy buy a kite and after he "flew it once and it wasnt right from the beginning" I got it back and found he over loaded one side somehow and it wasnt even close to what it was a week earlier, not sure what he ended up doing with his new kite.

B-Roc - 17-2-2013 at 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bigkid
I remove the data sheet for 2 reasons,
1- most of the people have no clue what it is and throw it away.


This is just my $0.02 but I'd suggest you photocopy it and keep one copy for yourself and send one with the kite to the consumer. If PKD includes it, they must think it useful for the owner to have. Not every consumer is incapable of fixing their own kites if given the proper guidance. It seems both a disservice for the majority of the kite makers to not include this and then again for you to remove it for those that do.

bigkid - 18-2-2013 at 12:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by B-Roc
Quote:
Originally posted by bigkid
I remove the data sheet for 2 reasons,
1- most of the people have no clue what it is and throw it away.


This is just my $0.02 but I'd suggest you photocopy it and keep one copy for yourself and send one with the kite to the consumer. If PKD includes it, they must think it useful for the owner to have. Not every consumer is incapable of fixing their own kites if given the proper guidance. It seems both a disservice for the majority of the kite makers to not include this and then again for you to remove it for those that do.

Well I did it again, Should have kept the loose lips in my pocket.
To be honest about the data sheet from the manufacturers point of view, it is information that they would rather not give out. Why? Because it is one of those little differences that make a kite fly or not fly. For those of us that have no clue, the info on these sheets is the stuff that would make Colonel Sanders role over in his grave, giving out the 11 herbs and spice list is not good business no mater who's paying $0.02.
Granted the other stuff is good to have but not all of it. If I was a dealer for PKD, the data sheet would not have been sent to me with the kite.
The next PKD kite you buy, you can request the info and I would be happy to include the stuff that you would benefit from and what would be beneficial for you to have. The rest of it is my info. Next time you buy a new car, ask for the paper package that the dealers get and see what you end up with. At least I am up front about it.

You are right about some of the info that should be included with a new kite, but remember that it will cost extra. the more they give, the more you pay. Some kite companies don't even send out instruction manuals let alone bridle information specifications. :rolleyes:

John Holgate - 18-2-2013 at 01:51 AM

Quote:

If I was a dealer for PKD, the data sheet would not have been sent to me with the kite.



Quote:

The rest of it is my info


Sorry if I'm a bit of a dumbo....but if you're not a dealer, then I would assume that all info included with the kite belongs to the customer. Why do you think it's yours if you're not a dealer?

And if PKD would rather not give it out, then why on earth do they? (although that's probably a question for them). I've never got bridle plans from Ozone, PL, or HQ with the kite - although I've never asked if anything was taken out of the bag.....maybe I should!

bigkid - 18-2-2013 at 08:14 AM

John,
I am a distributor for PKD. I order things and have items made specifically for use here in the US along with the regular items PKD makes.
If you wanted to be a dealer for PKD in Australia, you would have to talk to Briskites, who is the distributor in Australia. I do not know how they operate with there distributorship, but I would guess it is somewhat as mine. They may have a different agreement with PKD as with any other distributor. Basically, any PKD Kite business done in North America, is decided by Big Kid Kites. There is a lot more to this end of things but that's business.
You, as a consumer, buy kites from a dealer. The dealer buys kites from the distributor. The distributor buys kites from the manufacturer, PKD. Each distributor has an area they are responsible for. They set the rules, prices, dealerships, supply, what ever they want, how ever they want, if they want, and when they want, or with who they want. Or they can flood the area with a bazillion dealers and hold them to a 23 page contract, with death being the end result if they step out of line. Or even doing business for themselves, screwing who ever they want or giving stuff away to the select few. OK?

If anyone wants to be a dealer, they have to ask the distributor for that position. If they are granted their request, the dealer now has to follow the rules set up by the distributor.
There are only a few dealers here. One of them is Angus at Coastal Wind Sports, and another is Blaine and Brayden at PKD kites USA, (who is owned, operated and run by my grandsons). If you contact me for information, sales, orders, or anything else, It will be sent off to one of those 2 places for them to complete the deal, not me. I want the dealers to get the business. I do not have Reps for PKD, except the dealers and those that are team riders. No behind the back dealings or special deals out of my trunk under a bridge somewhere undercutting everyone and anyone who comes along. My dealers get first shot at the deals that come to me.
I do business a bit different in that the dealer is more important than anything else. They make the sales, not me. If the return address is from Big Kid Kites, that only means it is where it came from, not who did the sale.



Now with the stuff that comes to me from PKD is not the end product. Things are added or changed to fit this market at the request of the dealers. You, the consumer gets the end product that the dealer sells.
I can only speculate as to the other kite companies ways of doing business.:rolleyes:

If you want to have the bridle info included with the kites, OK. You need to tell the dealers, and they will tell me.(unless you live outside my area)
I hope that clears thing up.

John Holgate - 18-2-2013 at 02:15 PM

Quote:

I hope that clears thing up.


Sure does. Thanks Jeff.

bigkid - 19-2-2013 at 10:13 AM

this the new and the old

bridle 3.jpg - 30kB

B-Roc - 19-2-2013 at 06:19 PM

So basically its a spliced eye instread of a sewn eye from the looks of things, is that correct?

bigkid - 20-2-2013 at 08:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by B-Roc
So basically its a spliced eye instread of a sewn eye from the looks of things, is that correct?

Yep. The bridle lines that are connected to the kites are the thinnest material. The sections the collect others and are at the point of connecting to the kite line itself are a bit bigger in diameter and a different color.
To add to the story some of the lines, as in the picture are sewn. Can you tell if both of these are sewn, or just the old style?

B-Roc - 20-2-2013 at 08:21 PM

I can only tell that the old style is sewn from the pictures but since the spliced line is softer that will naturally hide the stiching more easily. I like the spliced lines. My custom Yeti has spliced bridle lines like that. Very clean.