Power Kite Forum

What Type of Kite is required to get air?

SFKITER - 22-2-2013 at 11:58 PM

Hello I am interested in doing this sport and was wondering what type of kite is needed to get air?

Is a kite like the Beamer 5.0M going to lift me up?

Since the Beamer uses Quad sticks can I attach a Harness?


Is the Tensor 5.0M big enough in dual line mode?

Is the HQ Apex 7.5M a typical kite that should be used for this sport?

Is a normal Kite Harness http://www.powerkitesdirect.com/hq-kite-harness/
What about a HQ Scout 4.0M?


sorry guys I have a lot of questions. Im really interested in attempting to learn how to do this it looks fascinating and insanely fun.

SFKITER - 23-2-2013 at 12:14 AM

oh #@%$#! sorry I just noticed the first thread about the forum rules about the wrong threads in this forum.... my bad if a MOD could move this to the right forum that would be greatly appreciated...

stetson05 - 23-2-2013 at 12:16 AM

most will recommend at least a 5m kite. Smaller kites will definitely lift you but they might drop you too. Jumping can be done without a harness with a pendulum jump or other methods. Be advised that jumping increases risk. I am sure you realize that but just a disclaimer.

Bladerunner - 23-2-2013 at 09:09 AM

1- Big air is best obtained with lower aspect kites at the top end of their wind range. The larger the caopy the more chance of float.
2- ANY kite can lift you up in the right situation. NOT every kite will float you back down.The 5m Beamer is a low lift kite so it would take a bit more effort or wind.
3- you can attach a " strop " to the top of your " Handles " to hook into your " spreader bar " on your " harness" . So many crazy terms !
4- see 2
5- 7.5 Apexx is a nice stable high wind kite. Better suited to avoiding lift. 10m is a better size for jumping . It all has to do with the wind speed. see 2
6- that is a normal " seat " harness . Waist harness is also common but prefered on water.
7- see 2

If you want a foil kite with float look at kite companies that are paraglider companies 1st ! Flysurfer, Ozone , Gin, SC and a few more.

If you haven't already read everything Angus put together on www.coastalwindsports you should. He says everything I would want to in a far better way !

shaggs2riches - 23-2-2013 at 04:34 PM

If you haven't already, I would recommend looking into lessons. You can certainly learn on your own as a large amount of people do. The lessons will help you advance much faster through the beginner stages, and give you a chance to find which type of kite suits you before buying. Otherwise it is a nice idea to look for a trainer kite 2-4m in size. It might seem like a waste of money to buy a small kite, then have to get a bigger kite later, but believe me, if you get hooked, you will have plenty of kites along the way. There is a large list of manufactures, most of them make quality trainers. HQ, Ozone, Peter Lynn, Gin, and Flysurfer are some of the more popular names around here. Jumping is a skill that requires a bit of experience before you are ready to attempt it. A good jumping will also behave different than a kite orientated for beginners. A good beginner kite is stable and forgiving, slower in the air. Good luck welcome to the sport and to the forum. You've found a good resource here full of great people willing to help you out.

Shaggs

EDIT Sorry I missed that you already have a quiver of kites my bad

Bigbear97e - 23-2-2013 at 09:50 PM

You have a decent kite quiver already so hopefully this is understood . . . Please get safety gear . . Absolute minimum is helmet and leather gloves . . Even static fly, I add elbow pads . . . In my buggy I add motocross body armor front and back + knee/shin pads . . I am 6'1" - 250 and I had my ace 4.5 pull me through the air like superman and force feed me some football field . . . Have tons of fun and be sensible . . . And like Bladerunner says - "see #2" . . . Good winds

SFKITER - 24-2-2013 at 02:14 AM

yea I will have the protection to wear for when I do attempt to do this. I need to get a waist harness still

RedSky - 24-2-2013 at 08:43 AM

I think you should use a seat harness. The hook on the waist harness might be too high and the quad handles too close to you for good control.

Remember that Kite killers are rendered useless with the harness. Should you let go of the handles you still remain fully powered up!!

You will need to hold the handles a bit further down for more brake leverage. Depower is waaay safer. If you're going to use a harness then consider depower on a bar.

Don't try to jump in gusty winds. Small manageable gusts are ok if you have the skills. Again depower smooths out the smaller gusts.

Find somewhere with clean winds, don't go out alone, keep within the kites wind range, expect the unexpected, watch your downwind and have fun.

Bladerunner - 24-2-2013 at 09:46 AM

+ 1 for seat harness.

Waist harnesses tend to ride up. Folks on water like the waist harness . They keep the kite lower + don't like the added bulk swimming.

On land we tend to keep the kite higher.

Don't even consider jumping until you can fly the kite " blind " That is, know where the kite is and how to correct it without even looking. You need to be spotting your landing at the same time you are redirecting the kite.

None of the kites in your quiver are exactly good jumping kites ?

SFKITER - 24-2-2013 at 10:22 AM

Oh really a seat harness is what I need to use for the mountain board on land? Thanks that I already have then! and bladerunner are those kites good for jumping or not thats why im asking lmao

Bladerunner - 24-2-2013 at 02:03 PM

Unfortunately not so much.

Both the Beamer and Tensor are low lift kites.

While I did a bit of jumping with my 5m ace ( a lifty kite ) if I didn't keep it moving and tension on the lines it would collapse and drop me. 5m is generally considered the smallest size to jump with. Even 5m isn't a lot of canopy to float you. The most lifty 5m kite is the 4.9m Blade and it's nickname is " the widow maker " . People seem to like the 6.5m Blade for jumping.

A am still FAR from a jumping bean . My timing on redirect is still questionable. I struggled and still do getting consistant jumps with fixed bridle kites. 5m was too small for my bad timing and my 9m Blade is too slow to redirect with my puny jumps.

I had similar issues with my 7m / 13m Flysurfer quiver. 7m needs so much wind it scares me. The 13m Psycho was great but I was still slow with my redirect. I had my breakthrough using my 15m Synergy. Responsive enough I can boost as big as I like and yet forgiving enough that I can totally blow it and not have the kite spank me for my mistakes. Even today I feel I can only say I am consistant and safe jumping with my 15m Syn.

Jumping has a whole lot ( 99% ) to do with kite control. Somebody skilled at jumping could do so with a Beamer and a Tensor but they aren't exactly designed to do that job.

I have seen a fellow boost BIG on my 3m Brooza but it was in winds that I wasn't at all willing to fly the kite in. The larger the kite, the lower the wind speed you need to jump. Learning to jump in nuking winds isn't smart .....

RedSky - 24-2-2013 at 06:47 PM

+1 for the Flexifoil Blade

SFKITER - 24-2-2013 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
Unfortunately not so much.

Both the Beamer and Tensor are low lift kites.

While I did a bit of jumping with my 5m ace ( a lifty kite ) if I didn't keep it moving and tension on the lines it would collapse and drop me. 5m is generally considered the smallest size to jump with. Even 5m isn't a lot of canopy to float you. The most lifty 5m kite is the 4.9m Blade and it's nickname is " the widow maker " . People seem to like the 6.5m Blade for jumping.

A am still FAR from a jumping bean . My timing on redirect is still questionable. I struggled and still do getting consistant jumps with fixed bridle kites. 5m was too small for my bad timing and my 9m Blade is too slow to redirect with my puny jumps.

I had similar issues with my 7m / 13m Flysurfer quiver. 7m needs so much wind it scares me. The 13m Psycho was great but I was still slow with my redirect. I had my breakthrough using my 15m Synergy. Responsive enough I can boost as big as I like and yet forgiving enough that I can totally blow it and not have the kite spank me for my mistakes. Even today I feel I can only say I am consistant and safe jumping with my 15m Syn.

Jumping has a whole lot ( 99% ) to do with kite control. Somebody skilled at jumping could do so with a Beamer and a Tensor but they aren't exactly designed to do that job.

I have seen a fellow boost BIG on my 3m Brooza but it was in winds that I wasn't at all willing to fly the kite in. The larger the kite, the lower the wind speed you need to jump. Learning to jump in nuking winds isn't smart .....



dang thanks for the excellent info man. Im taking everything you said into consideration. So on my first try out im going to most likely try out the Tensor 5.0M first and see how I like that and how responsive I am to that kite and being on a board. See if I can get any sort of lift. Nothing crazy im not looking to get massive air just wanna see what it can do.



Have you flown an Apex 7.5M, Apex 10.0M or a Montana? Does anyone have any recommendations on those kites if they are ok to use. On the tag on HQ it says that they are decent ATB kites. I have a lot of respect in the HQ brand. What about the new kite that is coming out the Matrix I think its called that HQ is releasing soon.

SFKITER - 24-2-2013 at 07:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RedSky
I think you should use a seat harness. The hook on the waist harness might be too high and the quad handles too close to you for good control.

Remember that Kite killers are rendered useless with the harness. Should you let go of the handles you still remain fully powered up!!

You will need to hold the handles a bit further down for more brake leverage. Depower is waaay safer. If you're going to use a harness then consider depower on a bar.

Don't try to jump in gusty winds. Small manageable gusts are ok if you have the skills. Again depower smooths out the smaller gusts.

Find somewhere with clean winds, don't go out alone, keep within the kites wind range, expect the unexpected, watch your downwind and have fun.


oh good think you told me that. I would of let go and still been flying away into the sky lmao

Bladerunner - 25-2-2013 at 05:44 PM

I flew a 7.5 Apex a few years ago at NABX. Loved it in about 20 25 mph winds! Never even thought about jumping Definately go through the motions and try some jumps. You will be able to tell when you are getting it right. You will need to try it in some pretty strong winds with the kites you have.
with it.

The Apex isn't designed as a lifty kite. It trades lift for a stabie nature making it a nice freindly kite to fly. It is a good kite for riding ATB but not the one they would suggest for juming on ATB. The Matrix is lifty. Montana is also more lifty than Apex.


The trouble so often in this sport is that one kite doesn't do it all. You need a low aspect ( like your beamers and Tensors ) kite for it's stability when starting out. Smallish in size. Unfortunately the best qualities for jumping are sort of the opposite. You want a high aspect largish kite. It is easier / safer to jump in moderate winds with a rather large kite that it is to learn jumping with a smaller kite in the strong winds required to do so.

By the time the wind is strong enough to pull off decent jumps with my smaller kites ( 7m Pulse , 10m Syn' ) I am intimidated by the winds and afraid to really send it ? My 15m Syn allows me to jump in 15 - 20mph winds and I feel most comfortable / safe in that range.

I would suggest not stressing about jumping right now. Get your turns and switch riding down on the ATB. Riding is only a small part of jumping but being sure of yourself will be a huge advantage when jumping comes. Jumping should be considered an advanced move. Something you only do once you are master of your kite and board.

Proletariat - 25-2-2013 at 10:04 PM

A blade will eat you and then clinically examine your blood type with no remorse. Jumping with depower is safer, in my opinion. If nothing else, at least you get to choose the timing of a jump on a depower.

Plus, AoA lifty feels completely different than Bernoulli lifty. Once you're lofted using just the foil effect, you can only redirect, loft more or fall. With a depower, at least you can adjust on the fly a little. I mean, you still have to not be stupid, but if you're dropping like a rock, sometimes you can pull in the bar, power up the kite and fall a little more slowly.

SFKITER - 27-2-2013 at 01:28 PM

Ok thanks guys keep informing me on what ever info you have please. Thank you Bladerunner and Proletariat.

So you would both agree that a DePower Kite is the way to go correct? - Apex 7.5 or Montana Kite?

Would you both agree that starting off using a 2.0M Beamer would be suffice? or should I start with the 5.0 Beamer?

Would an HQ Scout 3.0M be better to start with or a HQ Rush Pro?

Where would the Tensor fall into this category?

And then would the HQ Matrix be the kite to use for jumping once I am good?

Sorry so many questions.

If you guys could please order those kites in order of beginner to advanced that would be great! In order of learning how to control and maneuver on the board before I eventually reach jumping capability. Please and Thank You!

abkayak - 27-2-2013 at 01:41 PM

careful what you wish for......i never worry about jumping...i always worry about landing

SFKITER - 27-2-2013 at 01:41 PM

oh yea im 135lbs in excellent shape. So Im pretty sure I dont need a huge kite lol

Bladerunner - 27-2-2013 at 09:01 PM

I am a little confused . Do you own the kites in your signature?

I don't have any 1st hand experience with Tensor but I think it is a low lift kite. Same with the Beamers. Even the Apex 7.5m is low lift .

They are all great kites for learning. The size you use will depend on the wind speed . The 3m will be most versitile at 1st. You will be able to handle each kite in stronger winds as your skills + confidence progress.

7.5m Apex is a great kite to learn on but not to learn to jump with. When the wind is strong enough ( 15+ kts ) to jump it will be strong enough to really hurt you. It will however be a great kite for high winds as you progress.

I think you are too focused on jumping and trying to combine it with learning. Jumping is something you do AFTER you have mastered your kite skills. The nice stable nature that the kites you have provide is what you will need to give up for lift. The good news is they are great for learning.

SFKITER - 27-2-2013 at 10:17 PM

your absolutly right bladerunner. Im just so excited. but im gonna approach this a lot slower learn how to maneuver on the boards first.

Bladerunner - 27-2-2013 at 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SFKITER
your absolutly right bladerunner. Im just so excited. but im gonna approach this a lot slower learn how to maneuver on the boards first.


You won't regret it.

Everything you learn while learning to ride will be the memory reflexes you need to set for jumping. Believe me just learning to ride will be a huge challenge and thrill. Plenty to take on at 1st. We all dream about big air. The trick is getting the hours in under the kite 1st. Then you will have a better feel for how you are progressing and how lifty a depower you want to start with.

If you can make the trip to Ivanpah ( Vegas ) for NABX it will be the best education you can imagine !

SFKITER - 27-2-2013 at 11:28 PM

I have been admiring the Flysurfer Speed 3 Kites on You Tube those things look amazing lol. I no im dreaming dont worry but should I make that kite be my dream kite!? $2000 seems like a lot of cash to fork out maybe in a year or two I can think about purchasing that puppy, but im sure by then a new model will be out.

Chicagokitejumping - 4-7-2013 at 12:01 PM

That depend of the wind speed ....

ikemiester - 15-7-2013 at 09:19 AM

Honestly dude, you are scaring the crap out of me right now. You haven't even mentioned your kite skills. Learn to fly the kite before even thinking about getting on the board let alone jumping. I've been flying multi line kites for 12 years and power kites for 10; the kites your talking about wanting to try are the kites I fly and can still occasionally spank me. PLEASE, I BEG YOU, learn to fly a kite first. Then SLOWLY put a board with it. Don't even think about jumping until you have mastered those 2 skills which will take a while. As far as kites go, once you have gotten comfortable on the board, I would recommend a Frenzy or Montana (9-10m ish) or one of PL's twinskins (10-14m ish). Learn to fly a depower and then you can start to think about jumping.
I don't want to scare you away from the sport, but I want you to be safe. Kiting is the most fun I have at any point in time. It's better than skydiving, skiing, skating, wakeboarding... anything. Just please be careful, that's all I ask.

Purely Luck - 15-7-2013 at 09:57 AM

A first step may be to look at some good life insurance, health insurance, and short/long term disability insurance.

SFKITER, if you are new to the sport then you are asking the wrong kind of questions.

When you are ready to jump a kite, then you will not have to ask what kind of kite you need.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I do not want to sugar coat the risks here. Learning how to jump a kite is freaky! It can turn from ok to deadly in a heartbeat.

Check out this post Want to kite jump? Are you new to kites? Look here first!

Time for that film PKF'ers?

skimtwashington - 15-7-2013 at 03:57 PM

Film speaks louder than verbal cautions.



Before you think too romantically about the jumping.... don't skip the learning curve of all that comes before..... Not just flying time, reading wind and weather, understanding more than just flying...etc.

Think youre getting it but just in case:







PHREERIDER - 15-7-2013 at 06:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ikemiester  
Honestly dude, you are scaring the crap out of me right now. You haven't even mentioned your kite skills. Learn to fly the kite before even thinking about getting on the board let alone jumping. I've been flying multi line kites for 12 years and power kites for 10; the kites your talking about wanting to try are the kites I fly and can still occasionally spank me. PLEASE, I BEG YOU, learn to fly a kite first. Then SLOWLY put a board with it. Don't even think about jumping until you have mastered those 2 skills which will take a while. As far as kites go, once you have gotten comfortable on the board, I would recommend a Frenzy or Montana (9-10m ish) or one of PL's twinskins (10-14m ish). Learn to fly a depower and then you can start to think about jumping.
I don't want to scare you away from the sport, but I want you to be safe. Kiting is the most fun I have at any point in time. It's better than skydiving, skiing, skating, wakeboarding... anything. Just please be careful, that's all I ask.


word!