Power Kite Forum

Why are 4 line FB kites so popular for buggies?

Slappysan - 22-7-2013 at 02:07 PM

Why are 4 line fixed bridal kites so popular for buggies? (vs. 4 line depower kites)

WELDNGOD - 22-7-2013 at 02:24 PM

More efficient kite. And you have better control...

elfasa - 22-7-2013 at 02:36 PM

And cheaper per kite (generally)
I prefer depowers personally, and there are many others that do too.

Slappysan - 22-7-2013 at 03:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD  
More efficient kite. And you have better control...


What about it gives you better control?

Even though you have a more efficient kite (or equally efficient to the ideal trimmed depower) doesn't the lack of range suck? Seems like you need 5 kites to cover what 2 depower kites would.

I've never actually flown 4 line FB, only 2 line FB and 4 line depowers.

djinnzfree - 22-7-2013 at 03:48 PM

You should try more than one time both system and make your own idea.

Michael Gaylan - 22-7-2013 at 04:06 PM

I haven't flown a depower yet, so I have nothing to compare the differences with. But I know how much control I can have with 4 line and handles for a FB in a buggy. Each will always define their own unique style of flying/riding, just as each will develop their own "style" - they will also fill their own quiver to compliment their abilities/talents and always limited to their own financial limits. There's no certain recipe that will satisfy everyone's taste all the time.

:crazy:

Bladerunner - 22-7-2013 at 04:36 PM

This is a reasonable question.

The folks riding buggy around me primarily have better control because they will be flying much , much smaller kites than I am in the same winds.

I might suggest that the fact you can fly unhooked and get the same performance is an advantage but many serious FB buggy riders ride captive so that isn't the complete answer.

I and many others are very happy riding buggy and depower. Beamer Bob, Ziggy, Mark and a few others I can think of have posted some very impressive results on depower? It really becomes a matter of personal choice.

I think in a whole lot of cases folks start out on FB , build a quiver of them and resist the change? When they do their FB skills are superior and they don't feel they are getting the same feedback that they are used to ? It takes some getting to know your depower to be able to feel it's feedback.

soliver - 22-7-2013 at 07:40 PM

I personally just can't afford depower... Not to mention it seems like depower requires more set up (ie inflate the kite, more lines, harness etc etc). My kite time is VERY limited, so I'd rather go FB where (since I keep my lines attached) I can set up in 5-10min and break down in 10-15.

Not to mention my local wind sucks buckets and its my understanding the FB always does better in light wind.

abkayak - 22-7-2013 at 08:20 PM

Cause everybody knows fb is better...let the shxx storm begin

lives2fly - 23-7-2013 at 02:05 AM

I like FB with handles in the buggy for the following reasons:

Handles give you more precise control because you can use all 4 lines to control the kite.

FB kites are faster and more responsive than depower in the same wind conditions because they have a better size to power ratio - this is particularly imortant for me because I normally Buggy in light winds.

I find the riding position more natural with handles. I don't like using a bar while I'm almost lying down.

A buggy is so stable that the inability of a FB kite to cope with gusts is not so important.

FB's are fun to fly! they are fast, grunty and maneouvrable and you can really chuck them about the sky.

On a landboard you need something that is a bit more forgiving and can cope with gusts - particularly as a beginner. The slower speed through the air and bigger canopy compliment and encourage good technique and the things that make a FB fun static or in the bug become problems on a landboard.

pokitetrash - 23-7-2013 at 02:50 AM

I'm with Soliver. I like to be able to go out and dump a kite out, shake it out and fly in 5 minutes or less.
I learned on FB, grew into depower and bought a quiver of them then sold them all to get back to basics because of the easy set up and fly factor. Loved flying on a depower though. One thing was flying in a field is restricting so I was never really comfortable getting fully lit on a depower and watching a fence get closer. Its much easier to toss a FB if you get in trouble IMO. Also, if you have flaky winds its much easier to sit with your kite on the ground waiting for a Puff.

elfasa - 23-7-2013 at 04:14 AM

In my opinion, the whole 'FBs have more control' argument is a little pointless.. The difference is negligible in my experience. Unless you are RIGHT at the top of your game, in races or something I doubt the control factor will be an issue. I have never once been flying a depower and thought to myself that I need more control over the kite!They're not the be all and end all, but depower kites also have many notable advantages over FBs.

It's about what works for the individual! Your own personal preference. I'm happy with depowers :) Although they tend to be more expensive per kite, its a bit of a false economy to be honest. I have two depowers, that cover me from 10-38 (ish) mph. To get that kind of coverage from FBs, you'd probably need 5-7 kites I guess. (My depowers cost about £275 each). I like that I can have all the kites with me ll the time, no trouble. I fly one, the other fits in my buggy bag. If I were using FBs Id have to get a mini tent or something, and leave them on the beach, which makes me a bit nervous.

Having said that, if I had the money (After upgrading my depower quiver) I'd love to buy a few new FBs. Couple of blades, couple of Blurrs..

Try a few kites out, and see what works for you ! :D
Tim

Slappysan - 23-7-2013 at 11:55 AM

Thanks for all the info.

One thing I'd like to point out is the difference between 5 min setup isn't about FB vs. depower, it's about foil vs. LEI. I have a foil depower and I never take the bar off. Just unroll and fly.

WELDNGOD - 23-7-2013 at 12:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by elfasa  
Unless you are RIGHT at the top of your game, in races or something I doubt the control factor will be an issue. I have never once been flying a depower and thought to myself that I need more control over the kite!They're not the be all and end all, but depower kites also have many notable advantages over FBs
Tim


http://vimeo.com/22727231 Without an FB ,I could not have pulled this off! @ 1:30 you'll see me coming head on into 2 guys who wouldn't give me any beach at all. I had to juke that 2.5m Rage in between their kites and maneuver to avoid collision. Here is the unedited short clip
http://vimeo.com/22603714 Nuff said??? LOL WG

elfasa - 23-7-2013 at 01:58 PM

So by 'control' you mean 'turning speed' ?

I have a bigger beach than that, so I guess hadn't identified that particular issue as a problem..

BeamerBob - 23-7-2013 at 02:01 PM

It's all about what works for you at your location in your conditions. I have lots of time flying both. My winds and buggy speeds can be quite variable. Having the larger range of a de power is valuable to me in variable conditions. I can fly my 12 m phantom II from 10 mph winds up to about 28. For many buggiers that covers almost the entire range they ever ride in. I could fly the 9 m in winds from about 15 to 35 mph or so.

Both style kites permit me to do upwind turns, downturns, and even suicide gibes. If you want depower and easy launch and setup, then choose the HQ Montanas. Chris and I were flying 7m Montanas at nabx this year when a game of buggy tag broke out. The Montanas had a turning speed advantage over the arcs that came in handy. The Montana offers the flingability of a fixed bridle, the stability of a larger kite, and isn't any more difficult to launch than a fixed bridle kite.

For smoother winds, I have Vapors, Toxics and Beamers. I don't pick my kite till I get out of the car and feel what the wind is offering that day. I take all the kites every time so I have the best tool for the day. You are cheating yourself to eliminate fixed bridle or depower kites from your choices.

MeatÐriver - 23-7-2013 at 02:30 PM

Turn speed, less mass, 4 lines which can all be simultaneously manipulated completely individually. I think all these add up to more control. Might not always need it, but it's there when you do.It seems the greatest advantage with a depower is the ability to handle changes in the wind on the fly, which advantage is negated for me having the steady/smooth winds we have out here. Never flown a depower, though I would really like to mainly just because its a different style and I just like all kites.

markite - 23-7-2013 at 02:52 PM

I think we discussed this same thing within the last couple of months .... I'll recap a few things from my perspective and location. We are inland by the great lakes and extremely rare that we get a steady wind day - when it's higher wind it will always be gusty and then because we only have a couple of beaches to use spring and fall the direction of that wind can be onshore, cross on, sideshore (is this getting you crazy yet Jeff) and with a curve to the beach part way will likely be upwind and part downwind etc.
We used to ride fixed bridle all the time and I still do for certain sizes and conditions but overall a de-powerable gives us a range of power to use in variable winds, it really extends the riding time with less harness strain or not needing to change kite sizes etc. But so much also depends on how you ride - if you like to ride full out on a depowerable you might find yourself at the the upper end of the pack of riders easily passing fixed bridle flyers that don't push it to the limits and are comfortable fast and vice versa.
At JIBE this year there were a number of people with fast f.b. kites but there were parts of the beach that were giving problems when the winds were a bit patchy coming over the dunes. I heard a couple of people mention how gusty and patchy the winds were on the east coast compared to west but coming from Ontario i kept thinking man these winds are smooth and easy.
I think if you are into close quarter flying and want to be constantly zigzagging and adjusting kite position forward/sideways/back then a fixed bridle is the cats ass - but I've also flown many times playing around with depowerable in close quarters and having a blast with Bobby, Chris, Dean, Phil, Ziggy, Steve just to name a few.
Often when we get a chance to buggy somewhere with room and good winds I know a small handful of depowerable riders that launch the kite and ride all day because it's just so easy.
I've seen it many times when guys riding f.b. will come up to certain people riding depowerable and can't understand how they can go so fast in some places - so rider skill also comes into play.
if I'm going to a small field to play around or very light wind I'll grab a f.b. to throw out and go - but setting up a depowerable can also be just as easy - the foils like Montana or Lynx or Frenzy etc are usually unroll and go - the arcs aren't really that much different depending on learning your set up management.
In some places you'll only see f.b. with buggies and then in other places (like around here) it's the minority on f.b. and usually learning or waiting until the can afford a de-powerable - but that is more to do with location and conditions.
If I'm playing around in a buggy I do like handles more when it comes to spinning the buggy around and leaning back and forward but the bar works too just a few things feel easier with handles. When straight forward speed riding and distance, the bar is great, set it and go, one handed, not the side strain etc - you go with whatever makes you smile.