Power Kite Forum

New to kiting. Need help choosing a kite.

throughfaith323 - 24-7-2013 at 09:01 AM

Hi all,

The name is Ed and I am brand new to kiting. I live on the East Coast in NJ (Ocean County to be specific) and I want to buy a kite to skimboard with, snowboard, general flying, etc. I did a lot of research on my own and now it is time to get some input from the experienced kiters!

I am 180-190 lbs (6'1"). It snows enough to have fun 1-6 times in the winter here. When I am skimming I plan to ride the shore line, so as long as the winds are on shore, an open cell should be fine...I would prefer a closed cell foil just incase, but if I enjoy this enough i will probably also start looking at inflatable kites.

All in all I am looking for a good kite to get me started. One that will drag me HARD in 10-15mph winds and allow me to jump high in winds greater than 15mph. From what I've read the twister 5.6 has great reviews. I would like a control bar with a safety system too since I plan to skim and snowboard with it. I saw that the Prism tensor offers a nice control bar/handle all in one, but I am at the point where I need advice/input.

Anyway, here are some kites I'm looking at in the classifieds section. I would rather buy used since I am brand new and will probably want to get another kite rather soon:

Apex (400): http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26078
Apex (mint $400): http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=25926

PL Twister ($350): http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26329
PL Twister ($300): http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26246

Flexfoils: http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26065

HQ Beamer ($200): http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26284


I have my eye on the second Apex since it is rather new, has a control bar, is a 5m kite, and has a harness. However, I've read that the twister is an amazing kite AND it is 0.6m larger, but the two above do not have control bars. I wanted to get the forum's input before PMing all these people and leading them on. Another problem I have is all these classified add users only have a few posts, so I do not know if they are trusted forum members.


Any help would be greatly appreciated! I am trying to buy a kite ASAP as I will going on a beach vacation to the Outer Banks (North Carolina). There beaches there are great for stuff like this, and I would like to practice before I go!

Thanks guys/girls!!
Ed

soliver - 24-7-2013 at 10:07 AM

Ok, well here's what I can tell you...

Apex is a depower kite and for depower, 5m is small. Twister is a fixed bridal (FB). You might benefit from researching the difference between the 2, I know it took me a while before I REALLY understood it.

Here's what i can tell you though to get you started... the difference is that the Apex (depower) allows you to adjust the angle of attack (AoA) in flight, which will basically control the amount of power the kite will generate... I don't fly depower kites so I am not the best to discuss that, so I will leave it to one of the other guys. But I can tell you that depower kites generate less power for their respective sizes, and a 5m depower kite is typically referred to as a high wind kite... Meaning it will serve you better in stronger winds.

Twister on the other hand is FB which doesn't give you control over AoA, but will do better in lighter winds. In the 5.6m size the Twister is a little bit of a beast. Yes it is an awesome kite, but I don't feel like its a good beginner kite. It has A LOT of lift and can spank you hard if you don't mind your P's and Q's... I can tell you from experience. I thought it would be ok for me to start with a 5.6m Twister IIr, but it picked me up a few feet off the ground and before I knew what was happening, I was doing an army roll and nearly (re)dislocated my kneecap. To make a long story short, I ended up buying a 3m Beamer V and spent several months flying the poo out of it to learn control. Then I traded the Twister in for something less lifty. I can also tell you that I have read on multiple occasions that the Twister does very poorly on a Bar.

Also it's important to say that both of these kites are intended for land use and don't do water ...so unless you plan on skim boarding where you are keeping the kite over the beach, you may want to consider something made for water (an LEI or ARC).

THIS IS THE IMPORTANT BIT:... The general rule of thumb and what you will see MOST people recommend here is to start with a 3m FB kite. It will teach you good control until you feel ready to move up in size. A that point you can use the 3m as a high wind engine, because as you will learn, there is no 1 kite which will suite all conditions and perform how you want in any given conditions.

It is true that both of the kites (Apex and Twister) are indeed awesome kites, but their sizes are not necessarily conducive to the beginner. I would look more closely at the Beamer or the Peter Lynn Hornet or the PKD buster soulfly. All of these are great starter kites that will help you to learn control, then you can move up into the arena of depower or larger FB's or possibly water kites.

I might be wrong about the Apex because as I said I don't fly depower kites, but I believe most people recommend that if you START with depower kites (which some people do) it is best to start with a 7m, but I'm really not sure about that.... A 3m FB kite will definitely drag you for sure in the right winds.

I hope this helps and was not too rambling ;)

Edit... Just looked at the lot of Flexifoils,... The 2.5m or 3.5m Rage might be a good start too. Or Even that 4m Beamer too...

abkayak - 24-7-2013 at 10:18 AM

skim board and starting to kite is not a good mix...you gotta log some good hrs and gain experience and good kite control before risking your head and ankles...plan on the kite alone for a while don’t push it along too quick.. that said that i think beamer would be a good kite to sort things out..not a bar but cheap enough and your right, plan on more kites..lots..welcome to PKF

Bladerunner - 24-7-2013 at 05:04 PM

The folks above are right on.

The tried and true method for learning is to buy a 3m or so kite then putting in the time flying and setting memory reflexes. It's hard enough to think about 1 thing at a time so you are far better off getting to know your kite so well that you can fly it without even looking at it before trying to skim or jump. While the 3m has lots of power it is a nice size for becoming master . It's only once you are controlling the kite that you are learning. Start with too big a kite and you will spend your time defending yourself from it and never really mastering how to fly it. Different folks learn at different rates but about 50 hours under the trainer should have you ready to for the next step if you are on your own. So you will be looking for that second kite pretty shortly after you start flying.

Go in knowing you will want to compliment the 3m FB with another kite. You will get a much better feel for what you want that next kite to be once you are master of the 3m.

I agree that the Twister is a DOG on a bar. Very different with handles. 5.6 Twister is NOT a good place to start !

Go to www.coastalwindsports.com Angus explains all sorts of stuff very well including the difference between fixed bridle and depower.

3shot - 24-7-2013 at 06:41 PM

Hey there Ed. When are you going to the OBX? I'll be there the week of the 23rd in August with all my gear minus the buggy :(
If by strange luck you are there that week, you can try some of my stuff out.

Like others have said, a good 3m FB will always have a place in your "go to" kite quiver.

Welcome to the crazy addiction, and say good-by to all the extra pizza and movies money, etc. LOL

throughfaith323 - 24-7-2013 at 07:27 PM

WOW thanks for all the great replys guys! I'm gonna take your advice and go with a Fixed Bridle kite that is 3<=m<=5. I'm liking the price of the HQ Beamer IV 4.0...$245 shipped for a brand new one as long as the last once didn't sell. It comes with kite killers too! Does anyone have a reason why this isn't a good first option?

3shot - thanks for the offer! I will be there August 24-31. We usually stay near the kitty hawk kite store by the Rodanthe Pier. Where you staying? That would be amazing to meet up. I hope you didn't mean the week before the 23rd?

3shot - 24-7-2013 at 08:01 PM

Awe shucks. Yeah, from the 17th -24th. We stay up in Kitty Hawk on the ocean front across from the Wright monument.

soliver - 24-7-2013 at 09:36 PM

4m is a decent place to start,... We often say 3m is the best place to start because (like Bladerunner said) you learn to control the kite, not guard yourself from it. If you want to start off with a 4m that's fine, just be more cautious starting out with it.

Bladerunner - 25-7-2013 at 05:26 AM

Beamer is a nice tame kite. Going 4m wouldn't be bad unless you are a light weight. I know of lots of folks who learned on that model.

Beginners like kite killers. They will allow you to let go without issues. Always the safest choice at 1st.

lives2fly - 25-7-2013 at 08:36 AM

Welcome to Kite flying!

If you do end up getting a Twister for snowboarding when the winter comes and you want to use a bar - don't get the Peter Lynn one because its too short unless they have changed this on the 2013 models. It flies really well on a long bar - I use the Flexifoil Traction Extreme which also has the bonus of a kitesurf style push-away safety release.

throughfaith323 - 25-7-2013 at 08:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot  
Awe shucks. Yeah, from the 17th -24th. We stay up in Kitty Hawk on the ocean front across from the Wright monument.


dang..that was almost perfect! Thank you for the offer thoguh! I bet that sand mountain is pretty dang sweet with a kite.

throughfaith323 - 25-7-2013 at 09:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
Beamer is a nice tame kite. Going 4m wouldn't be bad unless you are a light weight. I know of lots of folks who learned on that model.

Beginners like kite killers. They will allow you to let go without issues. Always the safest choice at 1st.



How tame are we talking? Will it pull hard on the lucky days I get 15mph winds or more? Most days are 5-10mph (leaning closer to 5mph), so I'm sure I'll be able to get plenty of hours in lite wind conditions, but I was hoping this would be a decently powerful kite when the winds pick up?

So do veterans fly without the kite killers? If I was jumping and stuff like that I would think you would want them incase you need to free your hands for landing lol.

Quote:
Welcome to Kite flying!

If you do end up getting a Twister for snowboarding when the winter comes and you want to use a bar - don't get the Peter Lynn one because its too short unless they have changed this on the 2013 models. It flies really well on a long bar - I use the Flexifoil Traction Extreme which also has the bonus of a kitesurf style push-away safety release.


I'm going to take everyone's advice and get a smaller kite for now, but I'll definitely keep this in mind for the winter after I build up my control skills. Thanks for the tip!

abkayak - 25-7-2013 at 09:56 AM

hey 3/4m is gonna be great for you...don’t get hung up that word "tame" maybe it is in 8-10 but wont be in 20+ or even 15mph...think less aggressive it's more PC...Kkillers aren’t required but I don’t feel comfy w/out them, and they keep you from having to chase your kite up the beach if you have to dump it....I like the asap attitude and can tell your thinking about kite #2 already :thumbup::thumbup:

Scudley - 25-7-2013 at 11:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  

Beginners like kite killers. They will allow you to let go without issues. Always the safest choice at 1st.



Are we opening the kite killer debate? Not everyone thinks they are safe. For instance there is no one within five hundred miles of Bladerunner. Mention them at SOBB and everyone will tell you how windhawg lost the end of his finger because of them.

S

Demoknight - 25-7-2013 at 12:14 PM

I had a decent scare on my Tensor 5.0 while wearing kite killers in some pretty nuking winds around 20mph... Though that was my fault though. I was getting some nice floaty jumps, accidentally passed the brake end of one handle through the other handle with the kite heading through the center of the window. I couldn't steer the kite out of the power, got lofted a little less than 10 feet, landed sideways into a tuck and roll, back up to my feet with the kite diving through the power dragging me really quickly through the sand on my hip and feet(think sliding into home plate) towards the sand dune. After my tuck and roll, I had enough sense to let go of the handles to let the killers do their job, but my strop never lost enough tension to fall off the pulley and there was no way in hell I was strong enough to pull it loose while being dragged through the sand like that. It scared the crap out of me for a few seconds, but the kite landed softly on the backside of the dune in the wind shadow, and I came to a stop with my feet buried in the sheer face of the dune. Not a scratch on me. I was lucky, but I learned from it. Not only that I am in the market for a spreader bar quick release, but little things like keeping your brakes far away from each other to avoid the steering malfunction.

Not sure how closely that relates to kite killers since hooking in without a quick release makes them moot, but just sharing an experience that scared the crap out of me at the time that is really funny now that I think about it.

Bladerunner - 25-7-2013 at 04:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Scudley  
Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  

Beginners like kite killers. They will allow you to let go without issues. Always the safest choice at 1st.



Are we opening the kite killer debate? Not everyone thinks they are safe. For instance there is no one within five hundred miles of Bladerunner. Mention them at SOBB and everyone will tell you how windhawg lost the end of his finger because of them.

S


Uh OH , I worded that wrong.

I really meant it is always a safety choice at 1st since you worry less about releasing the kite.

Around here they aren't popular but it really becomes a personal choice. I don't like them but keep a set for those who prefer.

3shot - 25-7-2013 at 06:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by throughfaith323 I bet that sand mountain is pretty dang sweet with a kite.[/rquote  


This sand mountain?
Just something about being the first kite up in the air
:evil:



LOL I just noticed. It looks like the bronze statue is flying a 6" kite :smilegrin:

throughfaith323 - 27-7-2013 at 08:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
hey 3/4m is gonna be great for you...don’t get hung up that word "tame" maybe it is in 8-10 but wont be in 20+ or even 15mph...think less aggressive it's more PC...Kkillers aren’t required but I don’t feel comfy w/out them, and they keep you from having to chase your kite up the beach if you have to dump it....I like the asap attitude and can tell your thinking about kite #2 already :thumbup::thumbup:


Haha you know I am! Thinking about 3, 4, & 5 too! I def agree with not wanting to chase my kite around. We'll see how I feel when I get started.

Also...It's official guys! I will soon be the proud owner of a fixed bridle foil kite!! I went with the HQ Beamer IV (4sq.m). Bought it brand new from A Change of Wind for 237.75 shipped! It was a closeout kite so I got a great deal!

throughfaith323 - 27-7-2013 at 09:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight  
.....but little things like keeping your brakes far away from each other to avoid the steering malfunction.


That sounds like some good advice. Thanks for the heads up!

throughfaith323 - 29-7-2013 at 08:06 AM

what happened to my posts? does this website not support mobile posting or did i screw something up somehow? i'll try to edit them and see if something sticks out to me.

Proletariat - 29-7-2013 at 10:15 AM

Couldn't recommend the Beamer enough, and kite killers are easy to use and usually break anyway if something goes really bad. 4m is great. It'll have plenty of power but not do weird, unpredictable things. Good choice.

Eventually, try out a depower Kite, too. They are a different animal and before you buy a quiver, you should know which type you like better (I speak from experience).

Last, don't take a 4m out on any day where Max windspeed exceeds 15mph. After a while, in a buggy, you can easily use a 4m in 20+ MPH, but not static and learning. Also, your first day should be between 5-10 MPH. Make sure you have plenty if room and don't be afraid to "butt-scud" (slide on your butt being pulled by the kite... its really fun).