Power Kite Forum - Surprise! Flysurfer FLS Sucks?

Surprise! Flysurfer FLS Sucks?

Proletariat - 19-8-2013 at 08:55 PM

So I bought this awesome Pulse 2 from macboy / revpaul and I am trying it out yesterday in relatively sedate winds. I had tested out the safety in about 0mph winds a few times but hadn't really tested it under duress. The wind was about 7-9 mph and steady and I'm just having a blast with the Pulse when the wind picks up to about 15(20) mph.

So I'm flying it around and having a grand old time, and I'm about to pack it up but I decide to give it a really good solid loop before I do and WHAM... it pulls me about 20 feet downwind from an errant gust I never even heard or saw. I was perfectly fine, and the Pulse 2 was very polite about yanking me across the lawn, but I did decide that it was time to put it away, so I yoinked the safety and ... WHAM again... It turns upside down, flies UP into the window and pulls harder than before while spinning around and WHAMing again, eventually coming to a not-so-gentle-rest on the ground -- bouncing around and threatening to relaunch and fool me again.

I thought I had tangled the lines or done something wrong, but it appears to be working as intended, and I believe the FLS on this one is set up bone stock. I can only conclude that a) FLS sucks... or b) I did something wrong. I have an 8m psycho 3 that folds like a dream when I pop the FDS (video below at 6:00), so I was really surprised at how little depower I got out of flipping the safety. Note: I had borrowed a rookie2 from Nick, and it had a similar thing going on. Popping the safety totally even depower 20%, I would guess.

So... is it me or the kite? What am I missing? Why in the world would someone prefer this safety system over something that -- oh, I dunno -- works?

Incidentally, I contacted Flysurfer, and the conversion kite for FLS to FDS is pretty darn cheap ($59). You can bet I'm switching.

erratic winds - 19-8-2013 at 09:05 PM

The Rookie2 of mine is not FLS, it's previous to that tech. Having flown most(wow, I think only not flown 1st gen and brand new after getting a go on a speed3...) vintage of flysurfers, I absolutely love the FDS over the FLS.

On water I *think* the FLS allows for a better floating re-launch, but on land as you and I fly, we need to KILL IT when we go to safety and relaunch before the kite sinks isn't really considered a problem.

You will enjoy the FLS change, I love the way the kites just quietly fold in half and go to ground, most effective safety & reload & relaunch I have found on foil kites. Ozone top hat is a close second, but can be a bit of a pain to reload, and sometimes that pin goes way up the lines....

Proletariat - 19-8-2013 at 09:43 PM

Yeah, I didn't think it was FLS on the Rookie, just a similar effect (you know... where I expected some depower and instead got yanked off my rocker

)

Anyway, I bet you're right. The guys who I've seen that prefer FLS are typically on the aussie sites and ride water.

PHREERIDER - 20-8-2013 at 09:14 AM

the safety on a FS....hmmm. glad it was on there, i guess, FLS /FDS i have really know idea the difference. but time has given me this..

on my P4 12m...i hooked into it for a longtime, but never used it. primarily on the ocean for over for a year and half. it broke finally i took all off. around 3-400 hrs or so

on my pulse2 14m..i hooked into it for a longtime, but never used it. on the ocean for full summer and majority of my atb sessions for over a year and half. it broke at some point and i took it all off. easily 1000+hrs. prolly twice that

i may have, when first got the pulse2, did a dry run on land with the safety and the scaring cluster vLuck that followed i mentally vowed NEVER to do it again.

i not saying they don't do what they are supposed to do , but chances of it unvLucking itself are practically zero...i'm sure on flat lake somewhere in 14mph it may work perfectly at least once for a vid, but the reality is if you need it? use it! and swim, or let it go if its that bad.

OTHERWISE just be confident in using the back lines. its easy, effective and part of the design.

revpaul - 20-8-2013 at 10:36 AM

sorry to hear about your luck.
i had both FLS and FDS safety (on different kites of course) on land.
i can't think of anything you did wrong.
you did not pull the release and keep hold of the bar did you?
other than if one is at extreme (kiting) altitude i don't really know of any situation(s) where one should not pull the release for fear of kite going dog friggin nuts.
i have used the safety release (for testing/excersise/learning and for real) with all my kites including the Pu2 12 and never had issues. (i do prefer FDS though). being that i never had issues with FLS with 12m Pu2 i never bothered to change it over to FDS. i have pulled the pin on the Pu2 12m in very strong winds and it flagged out just fine as expected.
sorry that i'm no help here at all on this one.

Proletariat - 20-8-2013 at 01:17 PM

No problem. Thanks for the tips. I use my safety all the time on all of my kites and it has saved my ass more times than I'm proud to tell you guys. But there is some merit to what Chad says. John also typically just cuts the entire rig loose when things go sideways. Maybe when I get a little better.

I haven't had a chance to muck around with the fls much yet, so I'll take aa closer look when next I'm out. I may have had the lines wrapped or something. That being said, Paul, this kite is in fantastic shape!! Easily the nicest kite I own. Thanks so much for taking good care of it. I'll get this safety thing sorted and I'm positive that this will be my go to kite.

dave brown - 20-8-2013 at 01:47 PM

My 15m Speed2 came with FLS. I used it once... what a nightmare.. What's the point in a safety if the kite becomes more dangerous when you use it. I now have FDS.. having the 5th line sucks but it works.. Nothing worse then a kite going nuts on one line.

Flyfish - 20-8-2013 at 02:13 PM

I hate the term "safety". Just remember that your leash only saves your kite and maybe your girlfriend/future wife sitting on the beach watching you. (I know she's not your wife yet because she'd be over watching you anymore!). My wife done sitting on the beach, so I ride 80% unleashed. Not advocating that, but if there's nobody around its way safer for you. My thoughts are if I have an eject seat in an airplane, I don't want a leash attached to the tail.
Anything can happen but front line works. Flysurfer isn't a dumb company.

revpaul - 20-8-2013 at 02:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Proletariat

No problem. Thanks for the tips. I use my safety all the time on all of my kites and it has saved my ass more times than I'm proud to tell you guys. But there is some merit to what Chad says. John also typically just cuts the entire rig loose when things go sideways. Maybe when I get a little better.

You're welcome and I'm real glad you like it....That was my go to kite (for buggying in summer and skiing in winter. I had just tuned(replaced and adjusted mixers/bridles) that thing and hardly used it since so it still is tuned up nice for gogogo.

Kamikuza - 20-8-2013 at 06:10 PM

The other problem with FLS is when you break pigtails on the side that the FLS is attached to . . . done that twice now :o

Proletariat - 20-8-2013 at 11:50 PM

Yeah, I'm actually pretty psyched. Buying an fds and an infinity 2.0 bar for this sucker. I've been coveting those bars since I first saw 'em. This is now officially my go to kite. Sad to see you getting outta the sport, revpaul, but I sure do love your kite

revpaul - 21-8-2013 at 08:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Proletariat

Yeah, I'm actually pretty psyched. Buying an fds and an infinity 2.0 bar for this sucker. I've been coveting those bars since I first saw 'em. This is now officially my go to kite. Sad to see you getting outta the sport, revpaul, but I sure do love your kite

yep...i looked into the Infinity bar right when it first came out and could not justify price then.
i'm guessing today the price/availability is a lot more 'reasonable'.
Don't be sad for me...I sold my gear but I will not forget how to fly/use it. I can always get more gear any time down the road when kid(s) are ready for it too.
Plus Macboy has tonnes of kite gear and he is easy to get along with

I have kept some foils and all my stunters/Revs.

PHREERIDER - 21-8-2013 at 10:52 AM

infinity 2.0 is nice ...the 1.0 worked great for about 3 months with the cool unwind feature looks like they have the center split worked out. the bearing in the CL is the secret sauce.

all mine have been blown out for some time, the twist is a hassle but i manage to nurse the old junk along...my P4 deserves it

Proletariat - 21-8-2013 at 11:52 AM

Yeah, without the bearing, I find myself keeping a mental count of how many times I've gone clockwise or vice-versa. It's distracting, when I should be concentrating on landing correctly

Proletariat - 25-8-2013 at 10:10 PM

So I figured out what the problem was. Same thing today...I release and it just pulls a little harder while looping and picking up speed. It turns out that the safety line is attached to the front line, and has to go through 2 tiny metal loops for the bar to slide up the line. The safety line and the front line are attached by a tiny knot that was getting hung up on the kiteward loop. When it didn't get hung up, the release worked fine, if a bit tangly... I think until I get upgraded to the FDS, I'll follow Chad's advice and just cut it loose if things go sideways...

Also, I got an email back from Flysurfer USA saying they had an FDS and infinity 2.0 in stock, but then they went radio silent. 2 emails and a voicemail and 2 weeks and no response. Has anyone had success buying stuff from these clowns?

Hell, if their customer service is that bad, maybe I should start courting ozone

Proletariat - 28-8-2013 at 07:13 PM

Got a reply today saying I got filtered by their spam filter. Will call tomorrow for the new bar.