hi
i fly stunt kite for about 3 yrs,i want to try powerkites ,i have looked round on youtube and asked guys at powerkite store, and i was going to buy a
HQ beamer v 4 meter. My question is i really like the look and design of HQ toxic 5 meter i know this is a buggy kite ,would it be too powerful for
static flying only ,i only want to buy one kite i dont want to upgrade in 6 months time .Any help would be much appreciated .
Mikeerratic winds - 12-10-2013 at 12:48 PM
Well, it's a lot of kite to fly static, and like most big kites comes more alive in movement rather than static fly. If you are confident in your
stunt knowledge, you could try it, as long as you are very cautious! The beamer V 4m is a great kite that will provide a lot of fun. The Toxic is a
bit more aggressive so you're getting more power than just a 1m upgrade!
Have fun and be safe!zapper - 12-10-2013 at 01:03 PM
thanks for reply i thought that was the case , i fly a 2.7 meter stunt kite i would say i am about of intermediate skill , what i dont want is for the
powerkite to be such hard work i would not use it ,i was just being shallow and really liked the look of it .John Holgate - 12-10-2013 at 02:51 PM
You may find there is a rather large difference between your 2.7m stunt kite and a 3m power kite. If you're a big guy and fly in light winds, the 5m
may be ok. But I think you'd get a lot more use and have a far more versatile kite with a 3m. Which will easily give you a great workout in moderate
winds. Keep in mind, the bigger the kite, the slower they are - personally, I think 2 - 3m kites are more fun to static fly than the larger ones. Bladerunner - 12-10-2013 at 06:00 PM
John is correct . You will be amazed at the power a 3m kite will produce when the wind picks up. You can fly a 3m kite in very low winds and into very
high winds.
A 5m kite will be too much power in moderate winds and too slow for fun static flying. Even a 4m slows down and limits the top wind you can fly in.
There is no such thing as a single kite that will do it all but a 3m kite will fly in the widest range of winds . zapper - 12-10-2013 at 10:04 PM
thanks to all who helped me out on this on ,i think i know your right i just had my heart set on toxic 5 ,i might compromise and get the beamer v 4
meter .like i said i dont want to have to buy another kite in a couple of weeks i have to hide my stunt kites i buy from my wife (ha ha)i dont think
she would be happy me buying more than 1 powerkite this yearJohn Holgate - 13-10-2013 at 02:59 AM
I think you'll find the Toxic 3m will pull nearly as hard and be a fair bit quicker than the Beamer 4m. I've had a Beamer IV 4m - certainly a good
kite but not what I'd call 'thrilling' to fly. It was sold to buy something faster and more lively...... go for the Toxic 3m (or 4m - but I'm sure
you'll get more use out of the 3m) Or a Peter Lynn twister 3 or 4.1m. They're kites you'll keep and use whereas the Beamer is more likely to be
upgraded....hiaguy - 13-10-2013 at 05:46 AM
There's anoher "math" that needs to come into play as you consider your first kite.
Your 2.7m stunt kite is measured tip-to-tip - traction kites are measured in square meters and are designed to use their size differently. Unless you
have an extremely aggressive stunt kite, I don't think it will develop as much pull as a 3meter foil in light winds. 5m will be quite a handful and
won't give you the wind range to have fun as often as a smaller foil. MDK - 13-10-2013 at 08:51 AM
Look at the PKD Busters, great quality, nice design, and a great price! Then you can tell your wife how much $ you saved, what? It works for them Bladerunner - 13-10-2013 at 09:13 AM
John is right again.
Small kites fly in light winds well because they are fast and create their own apparent wind. At the same time you can hold on to them in very high
winds. around 3m kites have that perfect combination of speed and power. They act like a grown up kite. Smaller and they act like bumble bees. They
give small spurts of power as the zip through the window. Larger and they start to fly slow reducing the usable bottom and top ends + overpowering
you. Owning only 1 kite that is too large will encourage you to take it out in too much wind. We go to larger canopies because we are using our kites
as engines. That is very different than static flying.
All kites are not created equal. The 4 Beamer is a introduction kite and exactly the type of kite people sell off if they are looking for higher
performance. A 3m kite with a fast profile will deliver more power than a 4m Beamer. Speed equals power ! The trade off is that the higher
performance 3m will be less forgiving of mistakes. Harder to fly at 1st + in gusty winds. zapper - 13-10-2013 at 10:22 AM
wow now i have to do some thinking ,decision day tomorrowWELDNGOD - 13-10-2013 at 11:36 AM
The trade off is that the higher performance 3m will be less forgiving of mistakes. Harder to fly at 1st + in gusty winds.
The other down side is that most higher aspect ratio kites don't like the"edge of the window", unless it is a moving window,as when buggying. I
second looking into the PKD Buster soulfly.
Here is some videos I made ,we are buggying with a 1.5m and a 2.2m PKD Buster soulfly !
welcome to the addiction!
Buy a 3m kite...if u can only have 1 kite...everybody .imolives2fly - 14-10-2013 at 04:12 AM
Flexifoil Rage 3.5m! As everyone has said if you want one kite to fly static a 3-4m one will get you out in the widest variety of conditions. I just
thought I would throw another option out there for you.
Let us know what you gotSFKITER - 14-10-2013 at 07:03 PM
The 5M Toxic is a lot of kite but it sure is a load of fun lmao!zapper - 16-10-2013 at 12:03 PM
what would everyone's opinion on a 4.0 hq toxic for static flying only ,mainly inland on fields in flat lincolnshire UK Demoknight - 16-10-2013 at 12:29 PM
I would suggest a 3m over a 4m because in the future you may decide you want a kite to pull you on some wheels. The 4m kites are a strange size
because it is so close to more common sizes that when you want to get a larger or smaller kite, you have to either make a tiny change, or a huge jump
in sizes. I have the 8m Toxic and frequently fly it static in up to 15mph of wind. Flying a power kite static is all about personal preference. I
would not be having fun with a kite if it did not drag me all over the place, but some people like to just zoom around while just leaning back a bit
and staying anchored in the sand. If you want to scud all over the place, get the 5m. If you want to lean and only scud in 15+mph of wind, get the
3m. Either way, the Toxic is an amazing kite that you are sure to have a blast flying.abkayak - 16-10-2013 at 12:36 PM
what would everyone's opinion on a 4.0 hq toxic for static flying only ,mainly inland on fields in flat lincolnshire UK
About 1 meter bigger than I would by / bought as a 1st kite.
It will be too much kite in 20 kph and higher winds.
It will tempt you to fly it when the wind is too strong.
It will be a little slow turning for fun static flying. John Holgate - 16-10-2013 at 05:00 PM
For static flying, I think the 4m is a little big. It's gonna drag you around a little too much and if you're flying it in a field, it's gonna be
real hard on the ankles. If you were always on the beach, then you can scud through the sand quite easily without fear of damaging ankles. Most of
us have said get the 3m. - It will have plenty of power!!! Get the 3m!!
My fav kite of mine for static flying would be my 3m Method. The right combinations of speed and agility and power with a nice, wide window.zapper - 16-10-2013 at 10:46 PM
thanks all for help .i might regret from what you said ,but before i read alll replys i have bought the 4.0 toxic , maybe ask the wife for a 3.0 kite
for xmas , i am a bit scared of the power you all tell me about ,light winds only for a start ,to be honnest we only have mainly light winds around
here ,i thought it would make a change from my fast stunt kites ,i saw the guy on youtube with the 5.0 toxic on the park doing some cool low wind
flying thats what inspired me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwEUyXLYARU
i cant stop watching it ,the music the wind WOW!John Holgate - 16-10-2013 at 11:10 PM
Looked like very light wind and did you notice he never flew the kite through the power zone? (meaning the kite would have a lot of power even in
light winds (not knocking the pilot) Still, you should have a blast with it - particularly if you can get an onshore seabreeze with some sand under
foot. Let us know how it goes.zapper - 16-10-2013 at 11:30 PM
thanks john hope I've not made big mistake with toxic ,if you are interested I have a very bad quality video of me flying my stunt kite its one of
many kites but the largest and slowest about 2.7 meters , this is about the sort of flying I want to do but with the ability to do some hovering and
ground level http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49D0CKEqJwEJohn Holgate - 17-10-2013 at 01:39 AM
Nice looking stunt kite! I have one not completely dissimilar....makes just as much noise!! But it has nothing like the power of a power kite....heh
heh heh! While a power kite is a four line kite, the trailing edge lines are more for brakes/stalling the wing - not like a rev where you really can
do the hovering and tricks properly. Wait till you get it in a buggy :D
In the first minute of this video: Too much fun on 13th Beach I'm flying a 2m Beamer in 15 knots or so - it easily pulls me through the sand. (although I ended up needing the 3m
for the buggy)zapper - 17-10-2013 at 03:33 AM
thanks john ,ive not looked yet but do you do your own music .I also use guitar and do a bit of singing and record with Cubase and sonar,its just I
saw link to music i'll have a look now. Hopefully kite coming for the weekend ,one last question I know I should have gone for a Beamer or the like
for first kite and the toxic is a high aspect fly,is there a way to tame the angle of the toxic bridle I do a bit of messing with stunt kite to get
sweet spot with power. just thought to make it a bit easier going for static flys.
Mikezapper - 17-10-2013 at 03:34 AM
just answered my own question ,i'll look at your stuff at lunch time 11.34 am in ukssayre - 17-10-2013 at 05:40 AM
You won't regret the 4 meter. You have experience with stunt kites and you have respect for the kite so you will be fine.ssayre - 17-10-2013 at 05:42 AM
The I've been told the toxic has similar characteristics to the twister with the exception of a little less lift. I fly my twister every chance I
can.zapper - 17-10-2013 at 05:59 AM
wow thank you a bit of good news for the toxic ,I was on the edge of ringing kite shop to cancel orderssayre - 17-10-2013 at 06:14 AM
No problem. The 4 meter size is quite versatile. Your can fly it in a fairly wide range of wind. 5 - 8 mph will give me a decent pull but very
manageable and fun to fly. 8 - 12 mph will be a hard workout and will be able to do scuds on grass / sand. 12 - 15+ mph is a blast once you've
managed all of the fundamentals of flying. I don't know how the toxic comes as far as the lines are concerned but I had to tune my kite a fair amount
by adjusting the knots on the handle leaders before it flew properly. So it is best to have fairly calm winds on the first flight to get it dialed
in.ssayre - 17-10-2013 at 06:22 AM
I don't think it has come up i this thread, but what are your average wind speeds?Demoknight - 17-10-2013 at 06:26 AM
Zapper, the 4m is going to be a good kite that you will really love. I was similar to you and had experience with stunt kites before power kites. It
helped me a ton and basically meant that I already knew how to fly a power kite, and only had to learn a few muscle memory traits that come with
flying each individual kite you might own. My first true power kite was the 5m Prism Tensor. I prefer my Toxic over my Tensor for the buggy, but the
Tensor is still a fun kite to throw around. My girlfriend loves flying the 5m static while I buggy on the 8m. Now I just have to get a second buggy
for her :PJohn Holgate - 17-10-2013 at 01:37 PM
Quote:
I know I should have gone for a Beamer or the like for first kite and the toxic is a high aspect fly,is there a way to tame the angle of the toxic
bridle
The toxic will be way more fun than the beamer - so don't regret that choice. Being a higher aspect kite will make it faster with a wider window - it
may have a tendency to overfly occasionally, but that's ok, just add a touch of brake or steer away from the edge of the window if necessary.
I don't know if it has an AOA adjuster - but I wouldn't be concerned about that for static flying. You may have to tighten or loosen the brakes to
suit but that's easily done.ssayre - 17-10-2013 at 01:42 PM
I agree with John, the toxic will be a more challenging (which equals more fun in my book) kite to fly that you can grow into more than the beamer.Bladerunner - 17-10-2013 at 04:27 PM
You won't be disappointed. 4m still has a pretty large wind range and isn't too slow. + it sounds like you have relatively low winds? If you ever
decide to get in motion the 4m will make for a bit better engine than 3m . zapper - 18-10-2013 at 12:20 AM
thank you thank you for reassurance ,now i'm exicited again hopefully might get get in post today ,winds here are quite low ,i do take my stunt kite
to a small local beach town (40 miles away) now and then Mablethorpe where i think there is a buggying scene although at 47 i think i'm a bit old for
buggying , i just love kites and i think people in my village must think im a big kid ,but whatever ,someone once said to me if it makes you happy
then do it . I will post vids and pics when get the hang of it.
MikeJohn Holgate - 18-10-2013 at 01:13 AM
Quote:
although at 47 i think i'm a bit old for buggying ,
Nope. I'm nearly 50 and four of the guys I buggy with regularly are older than I am. Besides, a nice comfy seat to sit in while you fly your
kite...AND do 50kph down the beach - what more do you want? :D
I'm certain I've seen a bunch of vids from Mablethorpe - including some of Popeye's. And he can custom make you one of the best bugs in the world.
If I was in the area....or even in the EU! I'd pm Popeye, find out when he was going out next and go and introduce myself. His site is
Popeyethewelder.com
Trust me on this...buggying is GOOD lives2fly - 18-10-2013 at 01:54 AM
The 4m will be fine mate. Its just going to limit your top end a bit if you are just flying it static. On the other hand it will generate more power
than a 3m in light winds so if thats what you have to work with most of the time then you will maybe have more fun with it.
The toxic is higher aspect than a beamer to get it to fly further foward in the Window for upwind performance but the Angle of Attack is not set to
create lift so unlike some high aspect wings it is not likely to lift you skywards unless you want it to.
Its also a kite that flies great "on the brakes" meaning that you can use them to initiate fast turns and keep a little tension to limit the speed
without affecting tha handling much
A 3m is a great size to start with because you can throw it around in most conditions and really learn to fly it. 4m is starting to become more
traction oriented but it is not too big. You just need to be a little more cautious and with your experience flying deltas you will be more than
capable. + I don't know how heavy/tall you are but if you are a bigger guy a 4m was probably the right choice.
zapper - 20-10-2013 at 01:51 AM
thanks lives2fly, cant wait to get going and i think john may have tempted me to get some wheels maybe a land board ,are mountain boards any good as
i only mainly fly on fields some ploughed , if im lucky a field left over from summer with straw stubble. Do you have any suggestions for a very
exiting 3 meter kite for static flying something a bit faster than the 3.0 beamerzapper - 20-10-2013 at 01:55 AM
john i have just looked at your kiting vids ,wow you have some fun ,like the jump with buggyJohn Holgate - 20-10-2013 at 02:15 AM
An exciting 3m kite? That would probably be the Toxic 3m!! But since you're getting the 4m, maybe the next one make a 2 - 2.5m - something you can
use in 15-20 knots - particularly in the bug. For a mountain board, fields would need to be well eaten by sheep - much more than an inch and a half
of grass would be problematic - I think, I don't ride one myself. Buggy wheels are a lot bigger, but even so, 3" of grass really starts to slow you
down. I actually get out into the paddock with the ride on lawn mower to cut myself some tracks for the buggy (although that often generates a bit
of 'eye rolling' from the better half!)
zapper - 27-10-2013 at 12:16 AM
hi all, toxic 4.0 arrived not tried yet after seeing idiots on you tube i am a bit scared , i have also bought a IMP QUATTRO 3.0 i am trying that
first hopefully this afternoon , John holgate i have only just clicked that you are guy on youtube doing tuts on kites, ive been looking at your
beginning tuts for ages . Videos of toxic 4.0 coming maybe next weekend John Holgate - 27-10-2013 at 04:02 AM
Looking forward to vid of either kite. The quattro is a relatively docile kite - although I remember when I first flew mine (2.5m) the power shocked
me a little compared to my deltas. Mine's been dragged and bashed in the paddock for 4 years now and is still in good nic. Hope the tute's have been
useful.zapper - 27-10-2013 at 11:09 PM
i knew the imp was a mainly entry level kite i thought maybe i could get the wife interested leading to more trips to the beach,no kiting for a while
here we are having high winds ,i took stunt kite out early sunday morning and was struggling for footing so now chance of powerkite flying.John you
are very lucky if that is your "paddock " in your land bugging videos.
