Feyd - 31-10-2013 at 07:41 PM
So this is just a brief review of the Phantom 2 24m. We'll dispense with any talk about bags etc. and go straight to the meat and potatoes.
I've spent the better part of the last 4 seasons riding the Peter Lynn Phantom2 and I find they do everything I want and they do it well. But as many
people know Arcs are not known for their light wind ability and for a while there wasn't an option for light wind days. Until now with the option of
the 24m the Phantom2.
The first time I flew an arc that was good in light winds it was the 24m Synergy that belonged to Peter Lynn team rider Aaron Saude. I raced it in
the Mille Lacs Crossing, a snowkite endurance race here in the states. Winds were light and purpose built light wind LEIs were the weapon of choice
but the Synergy 24m, the only arc in the race, owned the day. We took first place before they cancelled the race due to a lack of wind. When I asked
Aaron to bring the 24m I didn't think we'd actually use it. I really just wanted to try it out. :D
I wanted a 24m for a long time after we won Mille and a while back Pepijn Smit/Peter Lynn sent me a 24m Phantom 2 to put through the paces.
The 24m Phantom 2, like most kites this size, lives and dies on apparent wind in low wind conditions. In winds that you can't feel on your face the
24m will static fly as long as you keep it moving. For riding it really likes to be moving to generate the power required to pull you. For riders
that don't ride in those conditions often and aren't familiar with this effect flying the Phantom2 in really light wind conditions can be frustrating
at first. Some of the common procedures and handling tricks that one would use on a smaller Arc in light winds don't automatically translate to the
24m. That said; with practice dedication and a the 24m Phantom 2 can be an excellent choice for light wind days. We had so many light wind days the
last two winters I would have missed half the season if I didn't have the 24m.
The 24m Phantom2 is fast across the window. It likes to sit more forward in the window, almost like a race kite. It produces smoother, less
aggressive power delivery than the Charger and lacks the "Charger Twitch" that many people have complained about but is still capable of nearly the
same turn rate as the Charger 19m. I use the large Navigator bar on all my kites and I recommend using a long bar on the 24m. Obviously in light wind
conditions she's more of a "park and ride" wing but if the wind picks up the 24m is surprisingly nimble, yet exhibits excellent arc autozenith, much
like earlier arcs like the Venom and Synergy wings. With adjustment of the VPC settings you can set the bar pressure and get a lighter feel. Lighter
but not light and if the winds are really light it takes some muscle to kite loop. But the fact that you can kite loop it in light winds speaks to
the light wind performance and turn rate of the 24m.
Lift on the 24m Phantom2 is less aggressive than the Charger and more smooth like the Scorp or Synergy kites. Glide is better than the Charger 19m as
you can imagine but I'm not much of a jumper so my jumping experience with both kites is pretty limited. In comparison to say a Flysurfer Psycho 19m
SA it has a very similar floaty feel.
Top end and bottom end (on snow/ice) are excellent. On clean ice with skates I can fly the 24m in just under 3 knots with a cruise speed of about
12mph. Not blazing speed and no jumping but good cruising and more fun than not riding at all. I've flown it with 60m lines to get more power out of
the light wind conditions but found the feel to be too spongy and turn rate too laggy. 40-45m lines seem to be the sweet spot for my tastes for
getting more power out of the bottom end. In general I prefer to run 35m lines as I get a little more power but retain most of the finer handling
qualities. I can still sine the kite to build power without much effort. At the other end of the spectrum the 24m Phantom2 depower is on par with
the smaller sized wings. I've been caught out in winds over 20 knots + on ice and the kite was completely manageable. I had it nearly full depowered
and kept fairly high in the window and unlike other kites in that size range, or even smaller, I never felt like it was going to loft me. The upper
end of the Phantom2 24m is easily on par if not better than any earlier large Arc designs and is excellent on snow. I don't ride on water but my guess
is upper end on water would be huge.
Phantom2 upwind performance is excellent and the 24m is no exception. Even in light winds she claws here way upwind with very little effort. For a
kite that isn't purpose built for racing it's upwind ability is great. Light years ahead of any recent arc produced. On ice or snow it's amazing.
The Phantom2 is a great kite for those who don't want to fly aggressively all the time and in general would be perfectly fine for just about any user
be it snow, water, buggy or ground board. The 24m is a stellar performer in a huge range of wind conditions and in spite of its size and the lack of
super light fabric, it isn't simply a big kite for big riders like many other larger kites on the market. I've found myself taking the 24m out on
days that I would usually fly the 19m Charger. I find it to be easily as manageable and I like having the extra power when I need it.
So there.:P
crazyherb - 31-10-2013 at 08:37 PM
I'll second the "apparent wind" effect... Here's a video of the 24m and I eating up lots of sky on a limp sock day...on 55M lines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTU46xiUwHc
Check out the HUGE S-turn at 1:30...gets the kite going and I'm rolling (only one out in 7-8mph wind)...WEEEE!!
Great review Feyd!! Thanks.
Baluk - 1-11-2013 at 12:11 AM
Would love to try this kite out!
Cheddarhead - 1-11-2013 at 01:33 AM
A brief review he says
Nice write up Chris
bigkid - 1-11-2013 at 02:06 AM
Compaired with the 24 Synergy, is the 24 Phanny 2 close or light years apart?
20mph wind with the Synergy would scare the crap out of me. I have helped crazyherb a bit with his 24 Phanny 2 with the hopes of a compareson to the
Synergy, but never got to it.
Guess I should fly my 24 Synergy at least once in my life.
Feyd - 1-11-2013 at 03:10 AM
Too wordy Cheddar? :D
The 24m Syn and 24m PH2 are close in most ways. The first day out on the Syn 24m the winds were blowing about 12-18mph and being the first time on
that kite I was a little leary of what might happen.
I was running it with my Navi bar so a lot more throw available than the '07 bar that came with the Syns would have had. The more throw the better I
think especially with a wing this big.
The Syn, maybe a little more grunty than the Phantom 2 but the Ph2 is better up wind and a much faster turner. 24m Syn or Phantom2 I think they're
both fantastic kites and not light years away. I would like to get them together and do a side by side. Fly that Syn BK, I think you'll really like
it. It is an interesting expirience for sure.
bigkid - 1-11-2013 at 06:41 AM
Thanks Chris, its been on my list of things to do for some time.:D
Everytime I think about getting it out, I think about the size and how much work it is to clean up and put away after I play. Besides, if I like it I
will have to invest in a complete new quiver and that would require a lot more sweat talking to my wife. Which might not be a bad thing, the hot air
balloon I want would reqire a new truck and trailer to haul all my stuff.:o
BeamerBob - 1-11-2013 at 07:37 AM
I can't believe the high winds you are talking about flying this thing in. I was certain it would be out of control by 15 mph, given that the one I
flew static was fun when the flag was hanging limp, and I was powered up if I could feel the wind blowing at all. I guess it's still an arc with an
incredible top end.
Feyd - 1-11-2013 at 12:56 PM
One of these days I'm gonna have to try a buggy. I'm running on a low friction surface, one edges that don't bust loose, don't drift, and it's just
my weight (a littl more than I'd like) and my gear. Now huge buggy thing strapped onto me or anything. I wonder if reaction time is a factor? I
wonder if the direct feedback we get through our legs allows us to anticipate trouble in the higher winds or when it's ugly. There is clearly some
sort of disconnect between high speed buggy riding and hign speed snowkite. I would love to know what exactly it is. Look at our kite choices in a
given wind as an example. Most of my high speed sessions are on 12-15m in winter winds with a base speed of 15mph and gusting to 30+. Just my
carcass, no buggy! THen I look at the speed you guys are getting with smaller kites and heavier weight and I'm baffled. I wish I knew a snowkiter
from the speed arena that was also into buggy speed but I don't. THe guys here that have buggies that I kite with take the buggy out maybe once every
couple of years. I suspect that if I got in a buggy it wouldn't be long before I got a sense of what the difference is but who knows when or if that
will ever happen.
Either way you're right, it's an Arc and has the classic huge top end. Last year I did a couple rides on the 24 w/o a back up kite and went WAAAAAY
too far to be on that wind without a smaller kite to throw up if it got out of hand. But if the forecast is for no higher than 20mph I'm confident
that I can get her back if I have to. Might bite me in the ass one of these days.
:D
Oh and the first time I was on the Ph2 24 in 24mph was completely accidental. In these part forecasts only go so far some days.
BeamerBob - 1-11-2013 at 01:31 PM
yeah, 24 mph winds is the sweet spot for my 12m and at 28 mph I can't stop and turn around anymore. I could ride the 9 and have fun as well. I
wouldn't want to run a 15m in those winds though (in the buggy) I'd be fine on a 15 in the water in those winds because weight and drag can hold it
all down. I can't understand how you hold down that much kite in that much wind. Apparent wind would have me dragging dead downwind soon and no way
to control the power. I put up my original 15m Phantom at Ivanpah once with what must've been 12 mph winds. I was in survival mode the entire time.
Feyd - 4-11-2013 at 06:39 AM
I still think it comes down to the edging and the fact that my legs are doing the work. A ski in the right length properly tuned for ice with the
right skier locks in and doesn't experience the downwind drift. I think being directly connected to what the edge is doing is a huge component to the
amount of control because you can alter the edging component as needed when needed. No lag in the response. 15m in 12mph on a ski is totally mellow
cruising time.
Equipment is a key here as well. Super stiff DH skis, average 215-223cm. All lifted and plated for better boot clearance and to make them even
stiffer. Stiff boots to drive the ski. Boots need to be a race fit for maximum control. I wear a size 10 shoe, I ski a size 8 boot. Sucks for the
first 200 miles but the control is excellent. :P
It really is amazing the difference in disciplines.
Kamikuza - 4-11-2013 at 07:08 AM
tl;dr - was it any good?
:evil:
Feyd - 5-11-2013 at 04:28 AM
Yup!:D