Power Kite Forum

3.5m Kahoona as trainer kite or am I better of with a snow kite trainer?

nph - 4-11-2013 at 06:29 PM

I have a Naish ATB Universal bar and lines. Right now I can get a great deal on a Kahoona 3.5m but is that a good trainer on land for low wind to practice de-powered flying over winter and maybe even try snow boarding? Will it fly well in lower winds on land (nice grass) or is it really a high wind kite. I get conflicting info about that. Some say a 3.5m is made for training purposes while other say it is a storm kite and won't fly well unless there are strong winds.
My winds are usually 7-12mph so whatever I get I need it to work in that range.

Would it be better to go with a real de-power trainer for snow and I am looking at the 4m Xplore from Peter Lynn. It has great wind range from around 6mph and also comes complete with bar, lines, kite and simple harness for slightly more. It seems to be a combined trainer kite but with good wind range. It is also suggested to start on land and use it for training and get a feel for it before heading out with a snowboard.

I would really like to get a feel for de-power before spring/summer and also if we get snow try out some simple snow kiting.
Am I better off with the foil trainer (which is a true snow kite as well) or would the 3.5m Kahoona be equally good?

Come next summer I will go to the coast and take some kiteboarding lessons so right now I only want to try the de-power and fly it. I know people say just skip the trainer and take a lesson but those are 6 months out and I really want a small de-power kite for where I live so question is which one is the better?

erratic winds - 4-11-2013 at 06:53 PM

3.5m is trainer size. It's an inflatable trainer kite. Yes, it would be *possible* for a light weight person to use it in storm conditions to kitesurf. I personally only snowkite and landkite, and most of my kites are LEI's(Leading Edge Inflateable).

I would never tell anyone to skip the trainer and wait for the lesson, it would be paying an instructor for the first few hours of learning how to fly, and you can do that with a trainer by yourself!

Either kite is going to be a great tool to get you started. Perhaps the foil kite will be a little more durable, and can be stored in more atrocious conditions.[Keep inflatable kites out of car-trunks on very sunny days ;D]

Where are you located in the world? Maybe we can direct you to a local person who might be able to give you some hands-on help?

nph - 4-11-2013 at 07:15 PM

Thanks for the advice, I live in Dallas Texas.
Interesting you are the first person I heard that not only snowkite but also landkite with LEI kite!

Do you think the 3.5m will fly well (enough to practice on) in my winds during winter here, 7-12mph?


Bladerunner - 4-11-2013 at 07:18 PM

The Xplore is NOT a depower kite. It is a 3 line Fixed Bridle.

That said, I think it will be a better choice since you want to use it to get moving in 7 - 12 . That little Kahoona would be sweet if you can afford it but it will not power you unless the wind is very strong.

I expect you have seen this promo video of the Xplore . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmvExJiU_YQ

nph - 4-11-2013 at 07:37 PM

I saw someone fly the Xplore and from what I could tellit is a de-power kite given it comes with a harness to hook into. What makes you think it has a FB like my Tensor?
The Kahoona is actually 30% cheaper than the Xplore so if I can use my existing bar/lines I am really glad!
However I don't have a harness yet and the Xplore comes with a really cheap one so I would have to add that to the cost of the Kahoona.

Btw, would a 5.5m be a better trainer, more all-round and fly in lower wind, than a 3.5m Kahoona?

erratic winds - 4-11-2013 at 08:08 PM

Ok. You've got some misconceptions to clear up before we move forward. it seems that you think the only kites that can be used with harnesses are depower kites. This is not so.

Fixed Bridle kites on handles can be used with a harness & strop line that connects the handles. Fixed bridle kites can be flown on a crossover bar & used with a harness. (A crossover bar gives additonal brake input when turning, so the bar gives the same sort of action as good hand position on the handles.) And yes, all depower kites can be used with a harness.

A FB Kite is a Fixed Bridle. You change the Angle of the wing by your hand pressure on the handles. The kite can go faster or slower, but usually *will not* produce less power. FB kites are usually quite powerful for their size, and even a 2m FB could send you on a 15 foot superman impression. FB kites are usually somewhat of a narrow wind-window for each size, so you'll often see people who have a 2,4,6,8 sizes of kites in their quiver (10m and above is very large for a fixed bridle kite and is quite a lot of power!).

A Depower kite has a bridle that has pulleys and such in it, to not only change the angle of the wing, but often the shape of it as well, reducing the amount of power it can generate. Depower kites are much less powerful for their sizes, as designed, and can have a much, much larger wind-range because of the ability to produce less power. You will often see more of a gap between sizes on a depower quiver of kites, as the kites have wider range. Example, my Quiver is 5m/9m/12m/15m.

http://peterlynn.com/products/lynx/ is PL's Depower foil-kite. The Xplore is a 3-line trainer.

Can't answer that question about the 5.5 VS the best 3.5 properly without knowing the brand and kind of kite of the 5.5, but generally, yes, the bigger the kite the lower the winds it will fly in.




ssayre - 4-11-2013 at 08:21 PM

Check out Bigmikeskites. He is in the Dallas area.

nph - 4-11-2013 at 08:39 PM

Thanks, that clears it up. The 5.5 and 3.5 m I was referring to are Best Kahoonas.

erratic winds - 4-11-2013 at 08:44 PM

The 5.5 best kahoona is a storm kite or a kite for a very light rider. The 3.5 as it is designed to be a trainer, is much lighter weight and would fly earlier.

Since you said you are in Dallas area I would give another vote to contacting Big Mike's Kites, and you could get a chance to demo some kites without risking your cash!

http://www.bigmikeskites.com/

Invaluable resource having a guy like that local, I don't have anything like it near me.


Also remember, for many kites wind-ranges are defined for doing a single sport, like kitesurfing on water. If you are on land this speed-rating can be much different! I have called the 5.5 a "storm" kite since that is what it would be used for on water, but it's more useful on land due to the lower initial resistance, I can fly my 5m and have a good time in 20mph winds, rather than the 30+ it's rated for on water as a minimum.

nph - 5-11-2013 at 06:33 AM

Thanks a lot for the info and explanations!
I think this has made my choice easy. Although I noticed I can get either Best TS 4m or Kahoona 3.5m for the same money so would you have a recommendation of either one being the better trainer?

flyguy0101 - 5-11-2013 at 07:10 AM

NPH- two folks have recommended that you check in with big mike- you are lucky to have a resource close to you- take advantage of it. there is a big difference between doing and reading about it. good luck

Bladerunner - 5-11-2013 at 05:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by nph  
I saw someone fly the Xplore and from what I could tellit is a de-power kite given it comes with a harness to hook into. What makes you think it has a FB like my Tensor?
The Kahoona is actually 30% cheaper than the Xplore so if I can use my existing bar/lines I am really glad!
However I don't have a harness yet and the Xplore comes with a really cheap one so I would have to add that to the cost of the Kahoona.

Btw, would a 5.5m be a better trainer, more all-round and fly in lower wind, than a 3.5m Kahoona?


Maybe you can explain to me how and why the Xplore is a depower kite 'cause I don't get it ? I am just going by what I see in the promo video and you have seen one in person. I think it is fixed bridle because it is 3line , Front lines attached to outside of the bar, does not have a mixer bridle system and doesn't have a trim strap ...

You can fly small kites in low wind because they are fast and create apparent wind but they don't produce power until the wind is strong. FB foils produce much more power than equal sized depower kites. The 4m Xplore will have more power than the 5.5 LEI. It can possibly get you moving in the upper end of your described wind range. The 5.5 probably will need more wind than 12mph but will have a ton of range. Up into the 30's. The 4m Xplore probably has a top end in the low 20's ?

You don't say what size your Tensor is ?

rectifier - 5-11-2013 at 05:35 PM

I have a 3.2m fixed bridle (HQ Crossfire) and it is a great kite for riding chinook winds (20-30mph, our main snow kiting winds here.) but it is not really a "trainer" though I did learn to fly foil on it. You need some decent wind to get it up.
You can definitely get moving with a 3.5m FB kite, it would be a good start.

erratic winds - 5-11-2013 at 05:44 PM

I'll say again, the XPLORE is not a depower kite, it's a 3 line trainer on a bar.

nph - 5-11-2013 at 06:00 PM

I have a Tensor 3m but will get the Kahoona 3.5m for the de-power trainer aspect.

Thanks for all the info and yes I am i touch with DAKO and will talk with Big Mike as well.

Also, I was confused about the Xplore since it came with a Harness so I hence I thought it was de-powered.

Peter

Bladerunner - 5-11-2013 at 06:04 PM

All GOOD !

If you have a 3m Tensor and know how to fly it then I think you want to look at something larger for a depower . 7 - 7.5m would be the smallest kite that will power you in 7-12mph winds. Once you are on water you will be wanting a very large kite to handle those winds. 12 - 14m .

If you are on a tight budget and have a bar used LEI kites are a good deal. Look for 2008 and newer and avoid C kites at 1st.

If you want to hook in to a harness with your tensor you can buy a D-loop . They are pretty cheap and Big Mike should have them ?

ssayre - 6-11-2013 at 04:57 PM

I didn't know they made depower smaller than a 5 meter. Bladerunner, what is a C kite? That is the one kite I see come up on here that I'm not sure what it is.

Bladerunner - 6-11-2013 at 05:20 PM

C kites are Leading Edge Inflated kites with the classic C shape. In about 2005 Bow and SLE ( supported Leading Edge ) kites came on the market. C kites work well but are very unforgiving and lack a bit in depower. They are better left to the skilled folks who want to go big. Bow and SLE are more forgiving .

Bladerunner - 6-11-2013 at 05:21 PM

ssayre - 6-11-2013 at 05:26 PM

That's what I thought, but are all LEI kites C kites, or can leading edge inflatable be something other than C kites?

Bladerunner - 6-11-2013 at 05:34 PM

There are sort of 3 types of inflated kites .
The original C kites. 2 line then 4 line. Then came Bow kites like the Crossbow in about 05. These have a flatter profile Thus Bow and not C . Often they have a form of bridle. Then came SLE Supported Leading Edge . These take on more of a classic C shape but incorporate a bridle for increased depower + safety.

ssayre - 6-11-2013 at 05:54 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. While we are on the subject, does an "arc" only refer to peter lynn twin skin kites?

ssayre - 6-11-2013 at 05:57 PM

Never mind, I answered my own question on the kite terms thread.