Power Kite Forum - just got my "Skin"

just got my "Skin"

flyguy0101 - 22-11-2013 at 10:07 AM

being a fan of Peter Lynn himself and having followed his writings regarding his new single skin / ie nasawing improvement i decided to get one of the 4m that he was offering direct from weifang china. Kite arrived today and am hoping to get some pics and try to fly it this afternoon. i know bobalooie got one to- Bob you had a chance to check it out yet? should be interesting since i am generally not a nasawing fan and am hoping that he created the magic wing for light wind days that actually flys well, my experince with the nasawings has not been very rewarding- of course could be my skill set

BeamerBob - 22-11-2013 at 10:13 AM

I haven't followed that for a while now. Keep us posted!

skimtwashington - 22-11-2013 at 07:42 PM

Bob got kite.... but only flew it static so far. Said he will post when it gets a buggy trial.

I only see 2.75m listed and not 4m at factory website. Wonder if these are still available if you ask.

(They can often change sizes by keeping relationship constant(dimensions/proportions) to make different size run. But I bet PL has asked they only make these two sizes to sell...for now.

Bob mentioned quality of workmanship is not great...but good enough.

Is the SKIN anything like the Peak at all in general performance?

ie: Do they both step up from an NPW in overall performance(upwind ability, power, low lufting-although NPW's already good in that category...)?
One thing...is that the prices are on the opposite ends of the spectrum:o- with the skin super cheap and the Peak super expensive. The FS Peak I would expect to have superb craftsmanship. Until PL produces his own or does a production overhaul with the Chinese factory... they will not be top quality from China... but that is partly why they are so cheap. As long as they can take some abuse and last a while.

Flysurfer may have either overcomplicated the design or they are brilliant with breakthrough design. We'll see. Need more reviews.
The design that may be overcomplicated on Peak or weird is the peaked rib line where bridals are attached to those 'shark tooth' pieces of triangular and scalloped material that protrude vertically down the kite-instead of sewn directly to main canopy. Quite striking and unique. My guess is these distribute load(less chance of tear/blowout compared to a small tab) from bridal's pull...?

Here's an interesting video:
CLICK THIS>>>>>> http://vimeo.com/78772663 <<<<CLICK THIS

indigo_wolf - 22-11-2013 at 08:45 PM

The two relevant postings

ATB,
Sam

bobalooie57 - 23-11-2013 at 10:25 AM

Received mine Thurs., took it right out for a static fly for about 1/2 hr. It flies quite well(flown like an NPW, with a little brake input) but craftsmanship is a little less than you would expect for p-lynn product. Maybe because it is a limited release, perhaps it will get better with increase in production.(Though a stated goal was less expensive)
I took it to Southwick this morning, wind was WNW, I'd guess 15-20mph, though NOAA says 10(recorded at Wat'n Airport) I launched the skin and was hitting 20mph with only one serious dip into the power. I went about a quarter mile, most of the time the kite was high and slightly behind as I was trying to slow down. When I finally committed to my turn, I downlooped the kite and whipped the buggy around, and coming out of the turn was immediately popped up onto 2 wheels for about a hundred feet. That's when it started with the "graupel", that heavy precip between hail and snow. I decided to pack up, as the 4M was overpowered(to me at least) and I didn't relish getting pounded with the needle like precip. I think this might be a great emergency back-up to have in the Apex pack when snowkiting, or a great buggy engine in 5-15mph wind. I never even got the chance to turn on the helmet-cam, so no pix this time, but will post video when conditions are better.

skimtwashington - 23-11-2013 at 11:48 AM

I was curious about the power for same size against a mod aspect or racing foil...but more so, want to know the upwind ability. I'm hoping for an improvement over NPW kites.

Will wait for some more thorough testing reports from Bob when he can put the time in...and or when Scott gets out with his.

Not pulling the trigger to get one 'til then...... I think :rolleyes:

.

Back up kite, or a primary kite for ski-packing in or hiking in on a trail into frozen lake in woods....Oh yeah!

Bladerunner - 23-11-2013 at 02:08 PM

I hope those testing out this kite will try it on different length lines.
One of the things I like most about traditional NPW is being able to fly it on lengths right down to the bridle.

I am packing for a holiday and see how something simple, small and light like this can also have an application in traveling by air. For land kiting at least ?

bobalooie57 - 24-11-2013 at 06:50 AM

Folded up, with no handles, this kite came in a box about 4"x 4"x 10". The kite has way less bridling than my NPW's, due to the vertical panels. I flew it off the same line/handle set I usually use with my 4.8M NPW5.(about 10M) This set has no loops for a strop, so I was strong-arming it. I was quite impressed with the power in the kite, so much so that I felt overpowered in wind I might have flown the 4.8 in. I was in the Comp Std buggy, and was quite surprised at how quick I got popped up on 2 wheels.(this in the up-wind direction) I should have tried the bigfoot, but with the weather going icy/blustery, I figured there wouldn't be any beach-walkers around to "call 911" if disaster struck, so I just packed up. I can't wait to try it in more moderate wind. I will get video etc., when I can.

cheezycheese - 24-11-2013 at 07:31 AM

I miss you Bob !! Glad you're posting again. .. :thumbup:

skimtwashington - 24-11-2013 at 10:27 AM

By the shape of the SKIN alone, I would think it has a lot more power than an NPW(for same sq. meters). Also, because of it's shape, I am guessing- or hoping- the upwind is a lot greater.

I agree to idea testing it on longer lines .

Not surprised by tiny packed size as having received 2.5 single skin NPW (Kite only) that you could almost stuff in ladies change purse. Stuff bag it came in was flat 6.5" by 8.5" and only 1" thick.

Again....IF...these single sheet kites have fairly good traits hoped for, they will be chosen for packing in where weight, room and distance to start zone are important. If a kite like the ex$pen$ive Peak winds up having great performance...... it may be chosen by everyone-including those just walking to beach 100 ft from their car.

Let the testing continue......:bigok:

rtz - 24-11-2013 at 11:58 PM

Not a bad price. Still on the fence about this one. How good it handles gusts/bad wind and how good is the upwind?

http://www.kaixuankite.cn/product/1441689805-218812111/New_S...

flyguy0101 - 25-11-2013 at 06:20 AM

well i tried to fly mine this weekend and had no luck at all even getting it to launch- kept folding up when it got more than a foot off the ground- bridles may have been a little messed up so back in the bag and launched the vipers 5 so i could get some buggying in will try again over the thanksgiving break. but i would agree with bob construction and materials are certainly on the lower end.

bobalooie57 - 25-11-2013 at 09:46 AM

Scott, not so surprising it didn't want to fly for you, it needs to be flown like an NPW, with that "just right" amount of brake tension. When I flew mine, I tried flying just off the power lines(brakes pointed right at the kite), and this caused the wing tips to fold up and flap, when I applied too much brake, of course, the kite would back right down out of the sky. So it is just a matter of getting just the right amount of brake tension. :thumbup:

The bright side is that when you nail it, which you will with a little practice, you will also be able to appreciate the NPW all the more!! :D

P.S. I inquired as to the availability of a 10M, as was mentioned in the newsletter, and was told they are just concentrating on the smaller sizes (4M + 2.5M) at this time. Maybe this will change in the future.

:cool:

Thanks cheezy, I've been here all along, just not too much to say.

flyguy0101 - 25-11-2013 at 10:30 AM

@bob- stupid question but i think the factory had the lines to handles backwards- coming off the kite which set of bridles is for the power and which for the brake? It seemed to fly beter when i had what i would consider the brake lines attached as the power lines- ie the simpler bridle set is power and the combined bridles as the brake just seems backwards to me thx
scott

rtz - 25-11-2013 at 10:34 AM

Some other pics of it in flight on this page. Can kinda make out the lines:

http://www.kaixuankite.cn/product/1452890319-218812111/Skin_...

markite - 25-11-2013 at 11:34 AM

Hey Scott are you sure you didn't have the kite upside down? That could also explain why it wasn't going up without folding. Sounds like doing a reverse launch which would be happening if the kite was set up upside down (rather than thinking bridle was wrong)

Just re-read your post and sounds like you tried it both ways and what should be backwards flys better.

Mark

skimtwashington - 25-11-2013 at 03:12 PM

Quote:

but i think the factory had the lines to handles backwards- coming off the kite which set of bridles is for the power and which for the brake?

Wait... are you saying this came with fly lines? Thought this was kite only?

Taking a second look... the SKIN seems to have long bridal lines.

I'm not sure what's going on with your kite. Do you know which is leading edge of kite? Usually the simpler bunching(fewest bridal lines)goes to brake lines ...

If enough people wanted a 10 m SKIN..they might make a run. But again, Peter Lynn may have had them make some agreement not to make but the two sizes. If not...they just want to move popular sizes which a 10m is NOT.

But it might be a neat very low wind kite for many of us. I understand why you might ask.

Meanwhile...still waiting for a more thorough review on what they do have(Upwind, turning, lufting,...).

BTW.....4m still not listed on website. Guess you HAVE to ask for that!

rectifier - 25-11-2013 at 08:20 PM

Yeah if it is $99 for kite, lines, handles I want one! Highly doubt that most of the lines are running to brake. Perhaps it just flies backwards VERY well?

They changed up the pics on the kite factory's website... better view of the sail in the air. The rainbow SKIN pics shown really remind me of a NPW-HA with extra keels in the body section. It's very symmetrical! I wouldn't doubt that it flies backwards well.

An easy way to identify the nose would be whichever side has a more defined "tuck" to it I would think. It looks like PL has managed to delete the internal nose lines that maintain that shape on the NPW, I wonder how?

I would love to see an L/D spec for this thing.

As to quality of workmanship, is this not a prototype release? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems he wants to get them cheap and fast into the hands of enthusiasts, and that a higher quality product will be launched under the PL banner later?

flyguy0101 - 26-11-2013 at 05:37 AM

a little more info- not sure about the website you linked for the kite- i sent an email to peter lynn himself and he in turn forwarded me to jessica at weifang kites and yes it was $99 for kite, lines, and handles and came all hooked up. shipping was ~$25.00. As for the brake line issue after looking at a couple of pics and my brief flying i think that skimt has it backwards on this particular kite the less complex bridles are hooked to the leading edge (not conformed yet but makes more sense when i look at the kites shape) i am waiting to hear form bob since he had his flying for the best answer.

bobalooie57 - 26-11-2013 at 08:09 AM

So I took the Skin out at the fairgrounds yesterday, with wind from the SW at 5-10. SW wind there is kind of swirly, but you take what you get. I flew static again, but took a little video with the helmet cam, I just haven't worked it up yet. The skin is different from the NPW in that there is no "cupped nose" at all, the leading edge is smooth(or flat, whichever you prefer). I hooked up the kite(which came to me with no lines/handles at the same cost

) with the more complex bridles(more lines) as the power lines, and the less lines as the brake lines. This does result in a slight cupping of the trailing edge, and if too much brake is applied, the kite will fly backwards, reasonably well. When I get the video done you will be able to see this. Not slamming your skills, Scott, you just mentioned that you haven't had a lot of luck with NPW's, and my experience with them is you either love 'em or hate 'em. The fine line between just enough brake and collapse, or not enough and nose collapse, takes some time and practice to get just right. You will see that this one gives me some moments in the swirly wind, once I get the video done. This was essentially why I made only one run at the beach the other day, I didn't feel I had enough control over the kite, needing more time on it. I'm hoping for some better conditions, and looking forward to getting in motion with it, whether it's in the buggy or on the snow, ma nature will decide!

flyguy0101 - 26-11-2013 at 08:17 AM

bob- no slamming of skills taken, i was kinda of hoping that the genuis peter had developed a nasa like kite that did not fly like a nasa kite but would fly like a "real" kite- as for the lines and handles not sure why i got lucky but will forwarn all others the handles and lines are very cheap. I will rehoook the lines up the right way and see what happens. Most likely if it is too much like a nasa wing it will end up in the for sale section pretty soon:D especially since my new toxic 8m just arrived yesterday (and it looks really :cool:

being almost all black)

bobalooie57 - 26-11-2013 at 08:37 AM

mmmmm... 8M Toxic! I can't wait to see the video! Speaking of skills, I think it goes with any new kite, that you need to spend time with each and every one. I haven't come close to mastering my 2M Toxic, nor the 2 Reactors I got from you yet! I've flown them more static than in the buggy, mostly because the trees are so close at Southwick, and I fear putting any of those in the trees. I treed many NPW's, and have been really lucky and got them all back without too much damage, but the one time I treed my 2M Beamer, it came away slightly torn. I really have to step up and start practicing with my foils more, if I want to advance my pb at all.

listing 2.75, 4, 4.6 & 5.5 sq. meter SKINS

skimtwashington - 26-11-2013 at 08:40 AM

Interesting.... I went to site and looked again on muti products page for PL kites... clicking on purple Skin that says 4m written on pic and...

I may have missed this before or they changed this product info page from last visit.... but they are showing 4 sizes if you look on this page in SPECIFICATIONS section.

http://www.kaixuankite.cn/product/1441689805-218812111/New_Style_Skin_Kite_no_frame_designed_by_Peter_Lynn.html

...but for product DETAILS section itself(for the 99$ shown) on top of page, the specs say it is the 2.75m(not 4m).. contradicting the main page product I just clicked on:puzzled: .

If a bunch of folks request the bigger sizes or even one not listed... it might be offered for sale.

bobalooie57 - 26-11-2013 at 12:41 PM

So here's the video I took of the Skin yesterday. It's not too exciting, as it is just a static fly, but it gives a good idea of how she fly's.

John Holgate - 26-11-2013 at 01:22 PM

Looks like a fairly narrow window - was that you're feeling? And don't forget, for anyone who doesn't like having to constantly keep the correct tension between brake and power lines, you can always add a Z bridle - which Peter Lynn did himself in his last newsletter here: PL Newsletter Nov 2013

He calls it a 'bridging line' and he leaves us in no doubt to what he thinks about flying with bar and harness!!!

bobalooie57 - 26-11-2013 at 01:41 PM

Wind at that spot is not very stable, and was going from about 5mph to 15mph, so that might be why the window seemed narrow. Will be looking to try it in steadier, less swirly wind.

skimtwashington - 26-11-2013 at 04:25 PM

I couldn't get a lot from that video...Seemed like very little wind. Yes...... need more testing....maybe on longer lines eventually.

What I did get.... is that the SKIN's construction on bridle attachment is similar to the Peak- in that the bridal lines attach to similar vertical triangular pieces extending from canopy.

Hope you get to ride soon and in stronger steady winds and post new video.

rectifier - 26-11-2013 at 06:36 PM

Thanks for the vid Bob! Looks like it flies like a NPW all right... foils tend to maintain better steerage, you can see it bounce all over the window as the gusts shift the wind direction. Z-bridle will probably smooth that out a bit as it holds more reliable brake tension.
Interestingly the demo videos for the Peak seem to show it having the inertia of a foil. More trapped air? Need to see some independent vids of it to know...

flyguy0101 - 27-11-2013 at 06:44 AM

Bob- after seeing your video- i am now certain that with my "awesome" skills i was trying to fly the kite backwards. hence all my issues. will try again next time i am out, but i am thinking this one may be going up for sale pretty soon

PistolPete - 27-11-2013 at 11:54 PM

Interesting read...kind of smells like the Peter Lynn single skin C-Quad without the rods :eureka:

Buggys in 3 knots :puzzled:

Joking aside - Your efforts and reviews are appreciated :thumbup:

John Holgate - 28-11-2013 at 01:55 AM

Quote:

Buggys in 3 knots :puzzled:

I'd believe it too. Nigel's 8.5m C Quad is always the last kite in the sky in light winds. Got some video of it on a very light wind day 4 years ago with the Geelong kite club here: Geelong kite club race

I've also seen some amazing very early NZ footage of both kite surfing and dune jumping with buggys and C-Quads. Very impressive kites....

PistolPete - 28-11-2013 at 09:10 AM

Yep :thumbup:

Bring on the 10m skin !

bobalooie57 - 29-11-2013 at 08:48 AM

I went to the school yesterday afternoon to compare the 3.8M Reactor to the 4M Skin, using the same lines, about 15M. The wind was such that I could launch the Reactor, but keeping it in the sky was work, and getting any traction with it was almost impossible, a few short butt scuds while sitting on a snowtube was all I could manage. I changed the lines over to the Skin, and it flew with enough power to drag me across the field on the snowtube (downwinders). More fun than down hill tubing, just walk back upwind flying the kite while dragging the tube behind on a leash. Glad no-one was around to see the OG having too much fun!

skimtwashington - 29-11-2013 at 08:00 PM

Well this is a positive review! :thumbup:

need more wind speed ...more testing will be yet be coming- I hope.

Get you SKIN in the game!

bigE123 - 2-12-2013 at 04:35 AM

bobalooie57 - looking at your vid I think you need to adjust (shorten) the three outside bridle lines.
Give this a try, tie the bridle line further down the tie on line:
Wing edge brake line 1cm from kite,
Middle power line 1cm from kite
Top wing edge 8cm from kite.

I did this on mine and the wing edge flutter had virtually disappeared, works from the slightest of breezes to full on wind in the buggy. From this point I then shortened the wing edge bridle line by a further 1.5cm, this seems to have really stabilised the wing edges.

Hopefully it makes sense the pic shows the TE brake on the left.

bobalooie57 - 2-12-2013 at 09:11 AM

Thanks for the info, bigE123, I just figured it was the wind I was flying in. I didn't even think to try adjusting the kite, I didn't really see the problem when I was flying the kite fully powered. I'll give this a try. BTW, is that the 2.5(?)M? I asked about getting the 4M in green, and they said I'd have to wait, as they only had the 4M in red.

skimtwashington - 2-12-2013 at 09:35 PM

Okay... waiting to see new video on fully powered AND bridal adjusted SKIN.

Any more details, BigE123? How was your experience with it regarding upwind ability, turning etc.?

bigE123 - 3-12-2013 at 02:09 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the info, bigE123, I just figured it was the wind I was flying in. I didn't even think to try adjusting the kite, I didn't really see the problem when I was flying the kite fully powered. I'll give this a try. BTW, is that the 2.5(?)M? I asked about getting the 4M in green, and they said I'd have to wait, as they only had the 4M in red.

It's a 4m 7 cell prototype, it's one of the things I found when testing it, even when fully powered if I pushed mine right to the edge of the window the first thing to go was the wing edge just like your vid.

Quote:

Any more details, BigE123? How was your experience with it regarding upwind ability, turning etc.?

TBH I've only had one session in the buggy with it and it was well powered-up. It's a nice stable kite and turns/controls well. I've mainly been static flying it to get to grips with it and tune it, as it is a prototype and not a final production model. As for upwind I'm just waiting for the fields to harden up as it's like a quagmire at the moment, so that I can do some back to back testing.

It does fly in only the slightest of breezes, an ideal kite to always have in the car (or like me when I take the dogs out for a "walk")

skimtwashington - 3-12-2013 at 06:53 AM

So far, it seems the wing edges just needed a little more curve, especially at top- by your testing..

I would get your info on success of altering some bridal lengths( now or after a little more final testing?) to Peter Lynn .... Email: peter@peterlynnhimself.com . He would appreciate feedback and might soon do some testing with changes in design(bridal).

Although the factory will still be selling ones they made( or if they never alter bridal design)..seems easy fix.

This SKIN is interesting in it's release as a prototype available to the public. How often does that happen?

bigE123 - 3-12-2013 at 07:42 AM

Quote:

So far, it seems the wing edges just needed a little more curve, especially at top- by your testing..

It's more at the bottom than the top.

Quote:

I would get your info on success of altering some bridal lengths( now or after a little more final testing?) to Peter Lynn .... Email: peter@peterlynnhimself.com . He would appreciate feedback and might soon do some testing with changes in design(bridal).

Already done, I've had mine a little while now. Just thought I'd share my findings with others who have a prototype as I'm not sure what changes have been made across the different models.

skimtwashington - 3-12-2013 at 03:17 PM

Oh...? you gave most (8cm) adjustment(shortened?) to TOP wing edge bridal line, so.. I thought...

I couldn't make out the pic of alteration too well. Need better pic/diagram perhaps...or I'm just a bit confused.:duh:

Definitely the coolest looking bunch of NPW's showing from bige123...you should applique something onto your SKIN.

rtz - 3-12-2013 at 07:31 PM

An update(scroll down a ways)(near the picture)

http://www.peterlynnhimself.com/newsletter/Dec_Nl_13.html

bigE123 - 4-12-2013 at 12:46 AM

Quote:

Oh...? you gave most (8cm) adjustment(shortened?) to TOP wing edge bridal line, so.. I thought...

Maybe if I make a bit more clear. Each bridle line ties-on to a line, which is sewn on to the kite, the measurements I gave was from the kite edge to the knot where the bridle line is tied on. The bridle it'self is not shortened it is tied closer to the kite (which will obviously make the overall line shorter). So the bottom two lines are tied 1 cm from the kite edge, where as the top one is tied 8cm from the kite.

After I made those adjustments I did also added a double stop knot in to the brake line which shortened the bridle by another 1.5 cm, this took it from a very slight flutter on the top edge to virtually no flutter.

"Your foil will become forgotten musem piece.."

skimtwashington - 4-12-2013 at 08:15 AM

Looked at Peter Lynn's December newsletter.

It starts oddly, in almost rambling analogy about cost, globalism, environment:puzzled:...then finally steers back to basics.

See..always wear a helmet.

After testing his competitors prototype... he is humbled...then makes prediction highlighted above. Well....

I'll be flying my museum pieces and having fun , thank you!

bobalooie57 - 4-12-2013 at 09:14 AM

Well, I looked into making adjustments, but the lines that your(edit:meaning bigE123) bridles attach to are sewn in loops on my version, so any adjustment I do will have to be in the bridle itself. I think I'll spend some more time with it before I mess with that. Interesting that P.Lynn is going even simpler to 5 cell/simpler bridle. I hope they decide to scale up in size. Until then our NPW goddess will handle my large single skin needs!

bigE123 - 4-12-2013 at 09:56 AM

bobalooie57
Ah hence the confusion! If you do want to shorten the lines, I'll measure mine from end to kite. Just had a fly this afternoon in the lightest of breezes and no luffing at all.

As for the other prototype kite he flew, wow over 200 bridles! I'm all for getting the most out of a single skin kite but that seems excessive to me. Aspect ratio must be immense!

rectifier - 4-12-2013 at 11:18 AM

Yeah, I found PL's comments a little odd. How can you compare a 5 cell minimal bridle kite with a 200 bridle complexity monster? In building kites I know bridling is more than half the effort!!

The cost difference due to labour must necessarily be immense, globalization comments aside, and I really hope he does bring this kite to market, if only for the benefit to new kiters. There is a very real market segment for a $200 powerful and indestructible kite, far more than that for a $2000 overcomplicated bridle tangler in my opinion.

bigE123 - 5-12-2013 at 12:57 AM

Quote:

The cost difference due to labour must necessarily be immense, globalization comments aside, and I really hope he does bring this kite to market, if only for the benefit to new kiters. There is a very real market segment for a $200 powerful and indestructible kite, far more than that for a $2000 overcomplicated bridle tangler in my opinion.

Now that hits the nail on the head, for the performance to price a simple single skin kite is a win/win option, sure there are some draw backs but also some positives as well.

The real trick is making a kite that appears "simple" but packs in the performance.

bobalooie57 - 5-12-2013 at 09:32 AM

Thanks, bigE. No rush on measurements, I might have some decent wind tomorrow to try it again. Will try to bring back video/GPS evidence. :D

bigkid - 6-12-2013 at 05:36 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bigE123

Quote:

peter lynn the man has nothing to do with the power kites that still carries his name. he is about research and development, playing and trying new things, having fun.
not fair to assume he is about 2000 dollar techno kites. he is much like each one of us, out to enjoy the sport and tinker.

ssayre - 6-12-2013 at 06:04 AM

I like peter lynn's rants on his newsletter :thumbup:

. It sounds like he is a conservative guy that has life and business experience to make informed opinions on such matters.

rectifier - 6-12-2013 at 12:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

Quote: Originally posted by bigE123

Quote:

You may have misunderstood the intention of my comment. I respect Peter and his tinkering, I like tinkering with kites as well and I feel Peter is one of the guys who builds kites for the love of building them. When I read his latest newsletter, I got the impression that he feels there may not be a place in today's world for his SKIN kite, and I think it would be a shame if he were to stop developing it due to perceived competition from complex singleskins. It's a neat kite.

ssayre - 6-12-2013 at 12:05 PM

Hey rectifier, I saw your tyvek kite on a previous post. That's pretty cool, did you sew it or did you use some sort of adhesive?

rectifier - 7-12-2013 at 06:04 PM

ssayre, I now have 3 Tyvek kites! (the two NPW21s and a single line foil). To avoid too much thread hijacking, I'll just say that sewing it works well if you keep the stitch length long and use a sharp needle and thick and sturdy thread.
If you are interested in working with Tyvek feel free to start a thread about it and we can share some knowledge about it there. It has some special considerations but in general I'm very happy with its performance as a material, now I just wish I could get some without the logos on the back!

Test flights - 2.75m

IMK - 11-12-2013 at 11:36 PM

I received the Skin 2.75m 5 cell and the 4m 7 cell a couple of weeks ago. So far I’ve only had a chance to static fly the 2.75m. This is what I experienced:

First Test Flight
My intention was to see how well it would fly on an Ozone Turbo Bar. At first it would only fly if I pulled the bar fully in (adding heaps of brake). After shortening the brake leaders I was able to get it to fly ok with the bar out, however the leading edge showed some folding towards the tips. The only way I could get the LE tips to inflate properly was to add more brake pressure. However, this had an unwanted side-effect – the kite was highly susceptible to flying backwards. In fact it would randomly fly backwards with a fair bit of force, so much so that at one point I questioned whether I was flying it the right way.
The good news was that the kite turned very well on the Turbo Bar.

Second Test Flight
Prior to the second test flight I made some minor adjustments to the kite. First off, I replaced the 46cm brake leaders with 75cm leaders as per Peter Lynn’s November 2013 newsletter. I then made the power / main leaders longer due to the fact that during the first test flight the kite needed a lot of brake pressure to fly ok on the Turbo Bar.
The second change I made was to add a 25mm extension to the leading edge bridle on the outer ribs. I got this idea after reading that Peter Lynn made a similar change to the 4.6m 5 cell to fix the same issue that I was experiencing (leading edge folding over).
I wasn’t sure what to expect with these changes, but the kite flew really well. Here are my observations:

All in all I’m really happy with the 2.75m. I can’t wait to try it with my buggy. I’ll test the 4m soon.

This SKIN has bugs on it...

skimtwashington - 12-12-2013 at 05:24 PM

A friend is getting Peter Lynn to cut and send him the panels/pieces( he's not getting from factory )- as Peter promised he would do for home sewers...... and he is going to sew his own SKIN using good quality bridal lines and much better stiching(more stitches per inch and seams likely 'tuck folded' for ...etc)....... Much like the kind of quality 'the Goddess' produces-or hopefully that good. ) He did a very good job on his NPW ...so...

He will need correct figures when making and sewing on the bridles. Maybe PL will give him updated formula for bridal lengths. Maybe PL can get the Chinese factory to alter and update their production(just a few simple line length changes!). A RTF kite that's then truly RTF.

Still waiting for a definitive riding experience expose...

Patience :rolleyes:

......

bigE123 - 14-12-2013 at 11:45 AM

If he is going to really push the boat out with the sewing/bridles then best not forget the keels, there is always some compromise on kites due to production techniques and costs. Self building means you can do a real no holes barred build. The skin I have is pretty much spot on now, just going to do a little tidying up on it and I think like you said above some pucker bridle lines would be a bonus.

skimtwashington - 14-12-2013 at 02:06 PM

Yes, he does pretty good work.....though I recall comparing his one he bought from Susan and hers was the best. I just hope he gets the bridal lines tweaked right or can easily adjust them.

BigE123, I'm sure the quality of your work is probably good.... but what I love is the different collection of graphics of yours. What a unique cool portfolio of NPW's. :cool:

Chook - 15-12-2013 at 05:23 AM

Mine is in the pipe line (7-10 days to make a green one) a 4.6m2, 5 cell with handles and lines for US $97 + $35 postage.
Should be good fun over the new year break.

Chook

bigE123 - 16-12-2013 at 02:16 AM

Cheers skimtwashington,
my goal was quality first then something that was unique, and in between all that is the quest to make them even better. In the current climate of single skin development I think I may have an idea for my next NPW.

PistolPete - 13-12-2014 at 10:39 PM

A year later :eureka:

Quote:

Peter Lynn Himself Newsletter December 2014
"I've settled on SSSL24 as being the most promising re-boot point. Sure, it's complicated and wrinkly, but it's stable across the range- to 60km/hr at least- doesn't show any inclination to dive off to either side in gusts, and recovers well from lulls."

http://www.peterlynnhimself.com/newsletter/Dec_Nl_14.php

Feyd - 14-12-2014 at 06:02 PM

Interesting thing about that last newsletter. I've seen the shots from Mongolia and the higher AR Single Skins they used and then read the bit about Peter Lynn Kiteboarding experimenting with single skis but opting to put efforts into open cell depowers. Too bad.

I would have liked to see a killer single skin come out of the PLK stable.

SSSL= Single skin SINGLE LINE

skimtwashington - 14-12-2014 at 06:58 PM

These are single(fly) line TRACTION kites?... Not just single skin traction...Single line traction? Am I understanding his newsleter(rambling as it is)?.

If he is indeed talking a traction kite that is single line.....How do you control or steer with a single line?

This key question is totally overlooked in newsletter to the same degree that it is so obvious it jumps out as a foremost question.:puzzled:

Maybe I have misunderstood, or am I missing something..

Look at this single line(not bridal-but fly line) below..

ssayre - 14-12-2014 at 08:10 PM

Peter lynn himself is working on sssl which is single skin single line. When he was talking about the traction kites that michael decker (i'm sure I misspelled that) is working on, those are 4 line. 2 completely separate things brought up in the same issue other than they are both single skin. The picture is of a single line and not a traction kite. At least that's what I gathered from it.

BeamerBob - 14-12-2014 at 09:26 PM

I'd sure like to see what Michel has all worked out in the SS traction kite arena. It's somewhat sad to know there is one designed but we can't get one. I imagine they will come out eventually, because I'm thinking this very revised Peak is going to take the market by storm. It's about to get serious. This might be the latest big development in the evolution of the traction kite. And we might just look back a few years from now and realize it was a revolution.

markite - 14-12-2014 at 09:51 PM

A lot of what he is talking about is dealing with a stable single line kite as a pilot kite for lifting large show kites. Don't be confused about some of the characteristics in his description as far as a traction kite because many of the stability characteristics are those needed for a reliable stable pilot / SSSL

As far as I can tell the kites we saw used in Mongolia might be more in the direction of the traction kites.

John Holgate - 15-12-2014 at 01:58 AM

My understanding of it was that the kites used in Mongolia are traction kites designed by Michael Dekker and Peter Lynn has been told not to say too much about them. completely separate to the SSSL kites that Peter is developing which, if I understand correctly, are for pilot kites, not traction sports. I wonder if Villegrop (the company Michael Dekker designs for (I think)) is sitting back watching how Peak sales go and maybe NS3 sales before they launch their single skin traction kites.

In an email conversation a while ago with Steffen Born, he was also thinking about a design more suited for buggying than the NS2 and NS3 - whether anything comes of that we'll have to wait and see.

And I have to wonder is Ozone has anything up it's sleeve after ditching most of it's fixed bridle foil kites.

Could be some interesting kites coming out in the future...

Feyd - 15-12-2014 at 05:14 AM

Waiting to see what Ozone comes out with. It will be interesting to see how the work their experience with single ski paragliders scaled to kite use. For my purposes single skins are ideal. After last season of flying Peaks and now flying the new refined Peak 2, I would say in Bob's words it's already serious. These kites can and will do anything an traditional twin skin can do.

rtz - 5-4-2015 at 08:42 PM

Anyone have any more flying time with the kites that have been bought so far?