Power Kite Forum

Successful first ever on skis

Chrisz - 29-11-2013 at 06:21 PM

I finally got to try a kite on skis for the first time, it was awesome!!

I think the winds where a little too low, they where between 5 to 10 mph, just guessing. Every now and then I could get going pretty good, I believe the Apex 5.5 is designed for 10 to 20 mph.

I tried pulling the adjuster strap and the bar in a little bit to get going faster but it seemed to just kill the kite. Down wind was great but I could not seem to get back up wind to my starting spot.

Is there a trick to gettig up wind, or did I just not have enough wind? I really had to keep the kite moving to keep it in the air, I was actually out skiing the kite at times and had to stop to let the kite fill back up with air.

Also if anyone has suggestions on what knot to start with on the power lines, please teach me a thing or too.

rectifier - 29-11-2013 at 06:52 PM

Welcome to the snowkite world! The winds were too low but it sounds like you still did pretty well for the conditions. It's hard to go upwind when underpowered.
If the winds are low, keeping the kite depowered will help it float better and stay in the air. Pulling in the bar will stall it.

However if you are outskiing the kite that meant you could have made a bit more upwind progress - edge harder upwind, then you will slow yourself down and let the kite stay ahead of you.

Bladerunner - 29-11-2013 at 07:14 PM

Big prop's to you for accepting the downwinders and enjoying them ! I am sure it felt great and you learned a lot.

Too often folks get stuck fighting to get / stay upwind when learning in those conditions and it's not the best choice. Yours was.

Like Rectifier says, trimmed in ( = depowered ) is the way to set your kite in too low of winds. It is kind of counter intuitive to do so. Let the kite run fast on the front lines and only add break to slow the kite + turn it at the edge.

The trick to getting / staying upwind in low power is to pump the kite in a sine ~ motion. Each time you stroke into power edge and try to gain a little upwind. When sending the kite up for another power stroke get off your edges and try to maintain speed.

Your tracks will end up making a sine wave just like you flew the kite. Hopefully in a slightly upwind direction ?

Hope that makes sense.

snowspider - 29-11-2013 at 07:28 PM

On hardpack snow and ice that kite will cover a very wide wind range, in deep or dense snow you will need a higher steady wind to work your way up wind. My Apex II 5m has flown in 30mph slightly gusty , you have to really pay attention but doable. Also flown in 30mph very gusty , exteemly dangerous , you will get bit. I set up my HQ kites with the strap/rope released as far as it can go then I fly it and pull the bar all the way towards me. I like to see the kite stall just as the bar stops against the chicken loop. If it stalls befor the bar is all the way down I shorten the front lines(move to the knots closer to the bar). (There are situations where I like to be able to stall the kite just by cranking down on the bar , not everyone sets up like this)
In light winds the kite will fly better with pulling the adjuster in like you did but then stay off working the bar , pulling the bar kind of negates the good you did by pulling in the adjuster. In high winds pulling in the adjuster prevents you from being "over powered" and you can do any thing you want with the bar in high winds. Both light wind flying and high wind flying require particular techniques or skills that you are starting to find out about.

Chrisz - 29-11-2013 at 07:32 PM

I had my other half on the lake with me waiting to pull m me back with the atv, but I ran out of lake so I tried to make my way back up wind. I made some progress but I ran out of day light and had to pack it up. The kite seems to have a lot of power but I can see a larger kite in my future for light wind days.

Like you where suggesting the only time I could make any head way was when I looped the kite down in the power stroke, that was a lot of work but is probably a good way to learn. The next time out I will shoot for 10 to 15 mph winds, I want to go in baby steps, I would to keep my limbs attached.

Chrisz - 29-11-2013 at 07:44 PM

What you're all saying is makig sense I cant wait to get back out and mess with the adjustments to see how it changes how the kite flies.

We have a storm moving in early next week, hopefully it does not turn the lake into a big slush pile, it would be great to have some snow to cut my edges into.

Bladerunner - 29-11-2013 at 10:14 PM

If you actually mean looping the kite then you get a A+ for trying everything you can !

I was going to point out that looping a small kite like that gets you an extra boost to build speed but thought it was a bit advanced. Use the gained speed to travel cross / upwind. You gain speed running downwind and lose speed going up wind. The trick is to use the speed and get more upwind than you lose.

The trick with pumping along is to gain more upwind as you pump than you lose to downwind as you let off to set up for the next pump. When the wind picks up, you pump a bit to get to speed and then can " set " the kite to " park and ride " . If you can set the kite to park and ride you can start opening your trim strap. Snowspiders method and mine sound the same for choosing trim strap set up. In decent wind I like to trim so pulling my bar in stalls the kite to the point it just barely wants to start backing down.

Also try using a downturn on the kite when making your turn. It sets you up for a big long power stroke through the whole window to come out of your turn. Try it static, you will see what I mean .

Learning to get the most out of the kite you have is very valuable experience. A larger kite may be in your future but you are learning important low wind skills in the mean time.

You are going to be a joy to coach online !

slopecat - 29-11-2013 at 10:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Chrisz  
I finally got to try a kite on skis for the first time, it was awesome!!

I think the winds where a little too low, they where between 5 to 10 mph, just guessing. Every now and then I could get going pretty good, I believe the Apex 5.5 is designed for 10 to 20 mph.


Congratulations! It sounds like you did really well. Are you teaching yourself or have you had lessons from anyone?

What about the lake - was is snow covered or were you on bare ice? If you were on snow I would think you were pretty underpowered and that was why you had trouble going upwind.

Just wait until you get out a few more times and catch a little more wind. The first time you start getting upwind and feel like you can go wherever you want you will find its even better than today was!

Chrisz - 30-11-2013 at 04:46 PM

Holey cow!

Ok the wind was up today I am going to have to get a wind meter, our flag was straight out and the trees with out leaves are moving around I am guessing the wind was 15 to 20 mph.


We have about 2 inches of snow on the lake and about 5 inches of ice, my skis are really old an need wax bad, the snow kept sticking to the bottom today.

I took off like a rocket ship today it was awesome going one way but still tough trying to get back. I found I had to fly to the edge of the wind window back into the power zone then back to the edge togo the way I wanted to.

I have been flying in figure 8's and loops to get up wind my arms are tired from the bar work I sometimes find myself grabing the lines to turn the kite faster. I am not sure if this because my bar is a little short or if I should change the lenght of the power lines.


There is enough power in thet 5.5 to be scarry when the wind is up I had it full power in the power zone I was moving! I ran out of good Ice fast and had to turn back twards my starting point, I still could not get back and ended up walking back 1/2 mile.


So I did not take my Ice anchor with me to hold the brake while I folded the kite, I landed the kite at the edge of the wind window, unhooked grabed the kite and flattened it out and folded it up. I can see how this could go really bad. What should I do when I end up in the middle of the lake and half to walk back?

Chrisz - 30-11-2013 at 05:21 PM

And yes I had one static lesson with an instructor, I wanted to do that for safety.


Another thought ran through my mind I did find myself being over powered at times I dont have any natural reactions at this point to adjust the kite all I can do is say holey '^@()#!! Hang on and grab the brake.

The kite did not stall when I pulled the bar in today it went faster! Should I shorten the power lines on windy days? Or is it the other way around?

Bladerunner - 30-11-2013 at 11:00 PM

I will assume you were riding hooked in.

It sounds like you are feeling the effects of depower now the wind is in the kites range? When traveling along with the kite at the degree of wind that pulling the bar in will " power up " the kite. You are changing the Angle Of Attack of the kite when doing so. In that situation you gain a boost in power but lose out on upwind movement. Push the bar out and the kite will depower. Spilling more wind but giving a better upwind AOA and sitting farther ahead in the window.

Having to grab extra brake to turn is something I have to do with my larger kites in lower winds. I am impressed you knew to do it but wonder why it was needed? It must have been during a lull in the wind or you were flying unhooked?

If you are stuck out without your ice screw along back the kite down. Use your ski or board to anchor the brake lines as best possible. Walk up to the kite running the brake lines loosely through your hand ready to grab them if required.

A am kind of amazed you didn't have better luck holding a line this time ? Those winds should have been enough ? Were you able to park the kite at the edge and ride ?

We all have a strong side . As you progress learn to do everything on the weak side as soon as you get it on the strong side or you will gain bad habits + struggle to learn that side later. I say when I finally learn it right I have to immediately learn it left .

To work out of that overpowered rush get your kite low and out to the edge of the window. When it is there edging upwind will cut your speed and power. Find the right balance of speed and power and you should cut a steady slight upwind line.

You go where you look !!!!! Want to go upwind pick a point slightly upwind and aim for it with your eyes.

Chrisz - 1-12-2013 at 08:59 AM

I was riding hooked in, I pulled the brake to slow down a little bit so I could turn. It has been 15 years since I was last on skis I did not want to get pulled over in a gust, looking back I think my biggest problem was controlling the kite when the wind decided to gust. I am just amazed how much power comes from that little kite.

I think this last time out I could of made good up wind progress except for I could not go the direction the wind would let me go because the Ice was not good on the north end of the lake. I had a west north west wind, I could of went due north then back south again to get back to my original departure spot. By next weekend the ice should be good on the whole lake, I feel a little better after I see atv's and snowmobiles out there!

This is a addicting sport, I cant wait to get back out there again, but I am a little stiff today. I think I used mussels I have not used in awhile.

Feyd - 2-12-2013 at 06:02 AM

Practice using kite positioning to as you primary power managment, use the wind window. Relying on mechanical depow limits your ability to ride in a wide wind range. Example: Bring the kite to the edge of the window to slow and shave power as opposed to the brake handle.

;)

If you're riding big lakes and farther than you can/want to walk you need some specialized gear. You should have an ice screw on you when flying. If you need to do an emergency pack up or wing swap in the middle of a lake the screw makes life much simpler and safer.

Walking or skating back is sometimes not an option. Ski skins and alpine touring bindings are key for getting back when things go bad. If you're on more of a buget, Alpine Trekkers are a great option for AT bindings.



Chrisz - 2-12-2013 at 08:22 AM

Thanks, I was just going to ask about equipment that I can walk in.

hellnferno - 2-12-2013 at 02:50 PM

I read a few posts.. I was wondering if I could ride upwind back to my starting point with my 3m HQ Beamer FB kite? Because I kept trying different way for upwind ride on my landboard and I still get no luck.. have to walk back when I reach ending point.

snowspider - 2-12-2013 at 08:48 PM

Chisz , straighten your back , bend your knees , point your butt at the kite , lean back against the pull of the kite , not far enough to fall over but enough to get your edges diging in and fight the tendancy to slip down wind. If you maintain a comfortable moderate speed you will be gaining up wind , if you go too slow its just slow and annoying , if somewhat fast then you are probably going a nice straight back and forth. If its scaring the b'jeses out of you you've got some downwind run going on. If your ice stays mostly swept clean ,get some really old "straight" skis and an edge sharpening tool , that 5m will keep you busy all winter.

Feyd - 3-12-2013 at 07:35 AM

Point your butt at the kite?:puzzled: Maybe I'm misunderstanding but when I ride I'm either backside opposite of the kite's direction of travel or pointing AWAY from the kite to counter balance. I cant imagine point my butt at the kite unless I were toeside on a board.

Either way, if you have enough power the kite will support your weight in the harness. You need only to sit back and relax. The trick is learning and fine tuning your ability to counterbalance against the power of the kite. With practice you will find the sweet spot between loading the kite and getting too greedy with your edges. Every second you ride counts. ;)

Snowspider is correct about the skis. You don't need side cut on the kite in fact it is a PITA. Side cut, if you edge properly will always want to carve up wind. This forces you to have to engage/disengage the edge to cruise in a straight line. At speed it becomes an oscillation that likes to beat the hell out of your knees. Anything but deep snow, straight skis are the way to go.

hellnferno, you can get up wind on a 3m but the resistance on the surface has got to be low and/or the wind has to be raging. Remember when getting up wind a large part of it is learning what your kite can manage. Some kites go up wind better than others. Start with a shallow up wind tact and take it from there. Upwind slow is better than no upwind at all and a walk of shame. :D

Chrisz - 3-12-2013 at 08:35 AM

Snowspider I get what you are saying when you are going up wind you are twisted around quite a bit. I have sailed Hobie Cat boats quite a bit, you can almost go strait in to the wind with a sail boat you can't cut it that sharp with the kite or the wind falls out of it. I was expecting the sail boat and the kite to behave the same way, not so.

I can see a 3 meter kite with resistance of wheels could be a chalange.

snowspider - 3-12-2013 at 05:21 PM

Butt towards the kite as opposed to what Kami called "the poo stance". Check Feyd's videos for proper haul a$$ technique!:yes:

Chrisz - 4-12-2013 at 01:10 PM

So how do I get to the video?

snowspider - 4-12-2013 at 02:43 PM

www.hardwaterkiter.com and misc. you-tube videos