Power Kite Forum

What do you fly? De-power vs FB vs ARC

DRH1469 - 31-12-2013 at 06:24 AM

Title kinda says it all :D

flyguy0101 - 31-12-2013 at 06:38 AM

All of the above:D, LEI for the water (although still a noobie on the water)- Fixed bridle in the bug, and love my Arcs for Everything. Arcs are my goto if i am not in the bug but will also fly them in the bug on occassion. I really beleive once you get past the initial setup and launch of an arc, there is no better kite design for learning an activity without having to worry about the kite- But Arcs are a somewhat older concept and i think that LEIs will become the main goto kites in the future for depowers.
scott

Feyd - 31-12-2013 at 06:42 AM

There's a minor flaw here. Arcs are depower kites so as an Arc flyer I am also a depower flyer. :D

I don't know but it seems to me the vast majority of fixed bridle users are buggy drivers. Any dedicated ground boarders or snowkiters, by and large are on depows these days. That's my perspective anyway.

Not sure I agree with that Arcs are an "older" concept. My feeling is that they were ahead of their time when first released. Add in the fact that they are easily modified or updated makes them a long standing viable wing for many years to come. There aren't many LEIs that have the useful longevity of an ARC.

Take for example the F-Arc. 12yrs old now and it can still do anything most "modern" kites can do. It lacks turn rate compared to an LEI. Most foils do.

Some friends from down south came out to ride yesterday. In the time it took them to walk their lines and pump up a 9m LEI I was able to land, pack up my kite, walk to the car, make a call, switch to another kite, walk back to the lake, set up and launch. This is why we don't see LEIs here much I guess.

I can see Fly's POV tho. Many or the Peter Lynn team that used to ride Arcs have gone to LEI. For their riding environments I guess it just makes sense. But for where I ride the Arcs still reign.

If anything is going to eclipse kite designs I'd bet single skins are more likely to shake things up in the future.





RedSky - 31-12-2013 at 06:57 AM

I fly with LEI, although someone has to come up with a sexier name please as I really dislike the term.
Down-under they call them tubes which is better, some call them inflatables, not so keen.

Why do you ask DRH1469 and what is DRH1469 ?

DRH1469 - 31-12-2013 at 07:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
I fly with LEI, although someone has to come up with a sexier name please as I really dislike the term.
Down-under they call them tubes which is better, some call them inflatables, not so keen.

Why do you ask DRH1469 and what is DRH1469 ?


Just wondering, as after I get my next foil(Radsail Pro 3.0M) I'm considering getting a de-power. I wanted to see how popular the different kind of power kites are :)

DRH1469 is my name:

D-Devon
R-Ryan
H-Hood
1469-14 June 1999

flyguy0101 - 31-12-2013 at 07:05 AM

Feyd- i agree with you regarding the arcs- they were definetly ahead of their time and excellent kites- nothing beats them for gust munchability but damn they hate lulls if you dont have a big area to build apparent wind. I suspect that ice is very different then the grass i ride in, have found when i ride in the gravel parking lot that really only need a gnats fart to get going once the kite is up

abkayak - 31-12-2013 at 08:10 AM

i fly everything i can lay my hands on...i like mixing it up each time out..only been under an arc 2ce they make me a bit nervous...:dunno:

MeatÐriver - 31-12-2013 at 08:13 AM

Just stepping foot onto the board side of kiting myself and obviously depower owns, hands down. All my experience has been in the buggy seat having learned/loved FB. But recently been selling off the smaller FB's for depower. In lower/modest winds there's nothing like throwing up the big reactor and becoming one with the wind. Though one the wind picks up I have really been finding the depowers just give me what I have been looking for. Been able to just toss up one depower where otherwise I would have had to bounce between multiple FB's within even a single hour..Which is nice. Just excited to move into a higher performance depower foil to get my upwind back :D

Demoknight - 31-12-2013 at 08:38 AM

I have really loved my depower experience so far. For buggying, I would say that FB is the more popular option because they are cheaper and give more power per meter. The buggy itself gives a bit of added gust munching ability since you do not really feel a kite's pull on you when seated in the bug. Depowers are really great as stated before because of the huge wind range. My 12m Charger 2 starts to pull the bug fine around 10-12 mph, but I can also buggy in up to high 20s with the same kite without doing anything but adjusting my trim strap a bit.

pongnut - 31-12-2013 at 08:52 AM

I spend about equal time on all of them, but had to vote arc as that's the one I spent the most time with this last summer.

They are like my kids, they are all different and have their own "personalities", but I love them all!

Demoknight - 31-12-2013 at 08:57 AM

But to further answer the question, I have flown open cell foil depowers, and arcs, and arcs are my favorite depower to fly right now. If you get good at setup and breakdown, once they are in the air, there is not an easier kite to fly.

riffclown - 31-12-2013 at 09:15 AM

For now I'm strictly Fixed Bridle and even 2 Line. Just haven't had the opportunity to fly the other stuff..

Bladerunner - 31-12-2013 at 10:16 AM

I fly them all. Each has it's strong points problems.

I personally feel more comfortable and safe under a depower kite.

Starting with a 3m 4 line foil is the perfect starting point !

Fixed bridle kites have less wind range so it takes 3 or 4 of them in the end to cover all winds. Flying with handles offers many options to get response . You can fly them without a harness but using one makes the job a whole lot easier.

Depower kites have more range and so you can get away with 2 or 3 kites. They lack in sub 5mph winds accept for expensive models.

I think you mentioned kite surf as your goal ? It is important to decide what you will need the kite for. If you are moving toward water you want to forget about open cell foils and start thinking, C kite, Bow kite, SLE kite, Closed cell foil or Arc.

crazyherb - 31-12-2013 at 10:19 AM

Depower or ARC- Reason? ONE HANDED FLYING!!

DRH1469 - 31-12-2013 at 02:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
I fly them all. Each has it's strong points problems.

I personally feel more comfortable and safe under a depower kite.

Starting with a 3m 4 line foil is the perfect starting point !

Fixed bridle kites have less wind range so it takes 3 or 4 of them in the end to cover all winds. Flying with handles offers many options to get response . You can fly them without a harness but using one makes the job a whole lot easier.

Depower kites have more range and so you can get away with 2 or 3 kites. They lack in sub 5mph winds accept for expensive models.

I think you mentioned kite surf as your goal ? It is important to decide what you will need the kite for. If you are moving toward water you want to forget about open cell foils and start thinking, C kite, Bow kite, SLE kite, Closed cell foil or Arc.


Kite Landboarding, in my other post, I had accidentally said Kiteboarding :)
It's at least a 10 Hour drive to any coast

Bladerunner - 31-12-2013 at 03:55 PM

OK ,

Most folks end up flying depower kites with mountain boards.

Odds are pretty good that the best deals you will find on used depower kites will be LEI kites in South Africa. LOTS of folks use LEI on land with a board and it is a good combination if you get the right kites. Most older kites and C kites are better left to water. There is a certain amount of risk in popping bladders on land depending on your location. Odds are pretty good you will damage an LEI learning on land so don't spend too much on the 1st one. Bladder repair is usually possible but you are down and out until the repair is done. As your skills increase you will crash less. Having LEI will just be added incentive to avoid it.

LEI are a bit of a bother having to pump them up and all. Foils have a big advantage there. Still I think that the used market near you will have far better deals on LEI ???

Learn to fly the 3m that is coming BLIND. That is by feel rather than having to look at it. When you can do that then you will have reduced odds of damaging an LEI if you go that route.

3shot - 31-12-2013 at 04:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown  
For now I'm strictly Fixed Bridle and even 2 Line. Just haven't had the opportunity to fly the other stuff..


Same here riff! Just something about a buggy with a 1.8 FB in 30 mph winds :evil: :wee: :crazy:

alasdair macleod - 31-12-2013 at 06:23 PM

Me fixed bridle at moment.

sand flea - 31-12-2013 at 08:02 PM

I fly both
they both have their own purpose

canuck - 31-12-2013 at 10:40 PM

All of them, but I voted FB.
light breeze a closed cell FB
light gusty wind a depower
high gusty wind an arc

rectifier - 31-12-2013 at 11:03 PM

FB, yeah! Nothing flies like a FB kite, though you do need a few (and I need a few more...)

I'm currently testing a depower bridle on my 7m NPW though, that will allow depower without decreasing the total power available per square meter... it will still be the same 7m FB kite on handles, but it should have better gust/lull handling ability.

I guess if it works out I will be a depower flyer then...

DRH1469 - 1-1-2014 at 06:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
OK ,

Most folks end up flying depower kites with mountain boards.

Odds are pretty good that the best deals you will find on used depower kites will be LEI kites in South Africa. LOTS of folks use LEI on land with a board and it is a good combination if you get the right kites. Most older kites and C kites are better left to water. There is a certain amount of risk in popping bladders on land depending on your location. Odds are pretty good you will damage an LEI learning on land so don't spend too much on the 1st one. Bladder repair is usually possible but you are down and out until the repair is done. As your skills increase you will crash less. Having LEI will just be added incentive to avoid it.

LEI are a bit of a bother having to pump them up and all. Foils have a big advantage there. Still I think that the used market near you will have far better deals on LEI ???

Learn to fly the 3m that is coming BLIND. That is by feel rather than having to look at it. When you can do that then you will have reduced odds of damaging an LEI if you go that route.


I live so far from any ocean so all the surf shops are also soo far away!
The kiting market in South Africa is also minute outside the oceans(I know of no-one who even knows about kites as a matter of fact!)

Also when I fly, I'm probably not going to have the time + the area I fly in is mostly thorn bushes(aka "haak-en-steek" - grab and pr¡ck)

So I'm probably going to have to import a de power kite anyway!
I've been practicing flying blind with my 2 Line FB for a while now :)

Any good "beginner" de power kite?

Thanks for your suggestions though!

greasehopper - 1-1-2014 at 08:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
I fly with LEI, although someone has to come up with a sexier name please as I really dislike the term.
Down-under they call them tubes which is better, some call them inflatables, not so keen.


It's better than "Blow-Up Doll", ain't it?

Flysurfer has finally done what I was trying to do 5 years ago with their Peak series. Personally, I'm leaning heavily toward the single skin concept, always have.

BigMikesKites - 1-1-2014 at 08:34 AM

I've flown them all. I haven't picked up enough skill to kiteboard, so flying the pump arcs is rare for me. But i've flown a few of them. I think they all have their place and some are better in certain conditions while others beat them out when conditions change.

BeamerBob - 1-1-2014 at 09:31 AM

I fly all 3 and enjoy them all in the buggy. I like the massive wind range of my Phantom IIs, the direct power, stability, and speed of the Montanas, and the simplicity of a FB when the wind conditions are somewhat steady. A Vapor is not my kite of choice when the winds are varying 20 mph. You're either blown out and trying to survive, or milking a too small kite while puttering along.

DRH1469 - 1-1-2014 at 12:11 PM

Single skin kites, like NASA Wing?

What are they?

erratic winds - 1-1-2014 at 12:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BigMikesKites  
I haven't picked up enough skill to kiteboard, so flying the pump arcs is rare for me.



What's a Pump Arc? never ever heard that term before

rectifier - 1-1-2014 at 01:02 PM

Single skins: No air is trapped inside, they are more like a sail. NPW kites have been around forever, some others have come and gone like the Peter Lynn C-Quad, the buzz is currently on the new Flysurfer Peak and Peter Lynn Skin prototype.
They all fly in very low winds, pull hard for size, pack small and are crashable with minimal damage. They are not very "lifty". They tend to be on the affordable side (other than the Peak).
With the exception of the Peak and rare custom NPWs, they are all fixed bridle.

A good choice for someone without local shops like yourself, You can buy a custom NPW from Susan on the forums here and she can ship it to you in a very small, light box. They are very tough and maintainable with common materials.

Bladerunner - 1-1-2014 at 03:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DRH1469  
Single skin kites, like NASA Wing?

What are they?


I think you may be on to something here.

Single skin kites have been around forever but have just recently gotten renewed interest.

Nasa Wings have been very popular for a while. I own one and suggest that if I had not flown higher performance kites I would have thought that NPW was the greatest thing ever. They work pretty good but lack in upwind performance, boost + top speeds. NPW are a very good choice with gusty winds + small locations since they can be flown on short lines or right off the bridle. Possibly a good match with your thorny fields ? Great low wind potential as well.

There are lots of patterns + resources online . Kitemaker on here is the " Goddess " . She makes a great NPW at a very reasonable price. Folks on here would be full of information.

Peter Lynn has just come out with a new style of single skin and is allowing the 1st model to be sold cheap. Shipping from NZ shouldn't be toooo bad but I am not sure where these prototypes are being shipped from? There are recent reviews on here.

You should research both of these kites. You could possibly build one as part of a school project and get points for it ?

Flysurfer has just come out with a single skin " Peak " that takes the concept and adds all sorts of expensive stiffeners and things . They are really pushing the single skin to new levels. :thumbup:

Todd - 1-1-2014 at 03:12 PM

They make kites other than ARC's :puzzled:



:smilegrin:

soliver - 1-1-2014 at 06:35 PM

I fly FB for 3 reasons: wind conditions, set up time and price.

1. My wind is pretty sketchy with more lulls than gusts, and typically blowing less than 10mph. It's my understanding that depow doesn't like those conditions and that FB will beat out depow in low wind most any day. I'm finding my 8.6m is becoming my most frequently used kite.

2. I know once you get depow set up how you like, it takes relatively little time to set up, but both Arcs and LEIs require some sort of inflating. My flying/riding time is limit and often abbreviated (I haven't buggied in about a month and a few days) and I like to have as little set up and break down as possible.

3. I'm often tempted by the prices offered on some for the used Arcs but I remind myself of 1. And 2. And realize it's not worth it to me. I visit Jekyll Island regularly, but not often enough to make it worth it.

Long and short... I'm an FB kind of guy.

DRH1469 - 2-1-2014 at 11:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
I fly FB for 3 reasons: wind conditions, set up time and price.

1. My wind is pretty sketchy with more lulls than gusts, and typically blowing less than 10mph. It's my understanding that depow doesn't like those conditions and that FB will beat out depow in low wind most any day. I'm finding my 8.6m is becoming my most frequently used kite.

2. I know once you get depow set up how you like, it takes relatively little time to set up, but both Arcs and LEIs require some sort of inflating. My flying/riding time is limit and often abbreviated (I haven't buggied in about a month and a few days) and I like to have as little set up and break down as possible.

3. I'm often tempted by the prices offered on some for the used Arcs but I remind myself of 1. And 2. And realize it's not worth it to me. I visit Jekyll Island regularly, but not often enough to make it worth it.

Long and short... I'm an FB kind of guy.



Me too! 1&2 only though!