Power Kite Forum - Another HQ Toxic review... 3m this time.

Another HQ Toxic review... 3m this time.

soliver - 14-1-2014 at 08:15 PM

You may have read any one of these:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26005
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26195
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=26129
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=27366

Well I just got myself a 3m Toxic and wanted to add my 2 pennies to the pot.

First impression: it's been a minute since I've bought a new-new kite; like fresh out of the oven, never been flown, crispy like a bag of potato chips kite, ... And it seems to me like HQ makes them extra crispy. All of my past kites have been PL except for a Beamer V I started out with then eventually sold, and what I remember about that Beamer (and now this 3m Toxic) is that they were SUPER crunchy... Just trying to give you some sensory descriptors so you can feel where I'm coming from. ... Not to mention that new kite smell, right? (Drool)

Graphics: love 'em.... Combined with the brightly colored bridles, it's a great looking kite, Not much more to say there. -Bag: I was really impressed with the bag. I hadn't heard much mention of it, but it's really nicely made. -Line set: the top lines (or fly lines) seem really beefy. They seem like a really good quality. Typical stock of what I believe HQ offers with their product.

The kite didn't come with Kite killers, but that's not an issue for me. I'm not a fan of HQ KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s. I have a pair of PL KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s set up with carabiners which I clip into the stake loops of my handles so I can use the same killers for all of my kites and there's no hassle when I want to hook into my harness.

Flying characteristics: I'm not sure if my wind conditions today were conducive to putting the kite through its paces or a fair review, but I think I was able to get a good feeling for what it is capable of. It was blowing between 10 and 15 mph probably, but pretty gusty and REALLY shifty. Several times I flew out to the far left edge of the window and it would overfly or luff as the wind would shift. I found myself regularly having to stake the kite and undo a bow tie or twisted mess. But as I said, I'm chalking that up to the conditions.

It took a little tweaking to get the right brake setting on the bridle. I started out with the larks head on the third setting knot which turned out not to be enough. After trying a few others out, I ended on the fourth knot. With that I can say that this kite likes brake input. Like others who also do well with brake input, it'll turn over on a dime.

Other than my issues with cruddy, shifty wind, the kite flew great. In fact he's quite the little monster. I expected it to be a little more tame than a RII, and it may be for its size, but it's certainly a little powerhouse. I can only imagine what it's capable of with decent wind. Certainly a powerhouse and I can't wait to try it in the bug. Hopefully with improved wind conditions, I won't have the luffing and overflying issues, because they were starting to get frustrating.

dangerdan - 15-1-2014 at 09:16 AM

The kite didn't come with Kite killers, but that's not an issue for me. I'm not a fan of HQ KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s. I have a pair of PL KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s set up with carabiners which I clip into the stake loops of my handles so I can use the same killers for all of my kites and there's no hassle when I want to hook into my harness.

I think that's a great idea that I will use.

soliver - 15-1-2014 at 11:08 AM

Thanks, Dangerdan... Make sure you put a larks head on the end of your KK, feeding the carabiner through the larks head rather than just clip the carabiner through the loop on the KK end... I just feel like that's more secure.

Ok, so the second flight was WAY better than the first, it was definitely my conditions yesterday. The wind may have been a little lighter today, but the gusts were much more manageable than yesterday, not to mention a much more consistent direction.

It flew way better today than yesterday. So much so that I let a newbie fly it, and he did quite well. I think I officially REALLY like this kite.

3shot - 15-1-2014 at 04:12 PM

Yes. Something about new HQ kites. They are about as crispy as a kite can be. Like when Grandma used to starch Grandpa's white t-shirts crispy lol.

Glad you like the Toxic. I might have to try me one of those bad boys.

soliver - 19-1-2014 at 08:52 PM

I've had a lot of those 3m suitable kind of days this last week, where I go out to the baseball fields on my lunch break and the more and the more I fly this kite, the more I'm loving it.

It is really quick and responsive and exceptionally powerful. I'm starting to think I need to start saving my money to fill that 6.5m spot in the quiver :D

3shot - 19-1-2014 at 09:05 PM

Great to hear Soliver. Seeing more and more raves over the Toxic. I enjoy flying riffclown's Crossfires (which the Toxic replaced). There is no end to kite buying in sight.....

I need a Toxic now

Demoknight - 12-2-2014 at 02:15 AM

I think the Toxic kites came out in 2011, but it has taken a few years for people to realize how good they are for the money. I have noticed more and more people are trying Toxics and falling in love

I basically fell in love with them as soon as I laid eyes on the big black beautiful 8m. I wanted one before I had even seen one fly. When I finally got it, man I have to say I have ZERO buyer's remorse with that big fella.

riffclown - 12-2-2014 at 05:28 PM

I have to agree with you on the 8M.. That's the one I want so badly...

soliver - 12-2-2014 at 05:45 PM

The only reason I ended up with my 8.6m RII is cuz it just worked out that that's what I found and bought first... I was on tap to get an 8m Toxic.

I have been considering a 6.5m as my next purchase... We'll see in a year or so :lol:

Clive - 13-2-2014 at 01:49 AM

The 3 m toxic should be a real quick kite, I ran 45 mph in the 4 m in about 25 mph of wind, in the right winds the 3m should produce well over 50.

I would like the 3 m but unfortunately our AUS dollar has Fallen and as a result kite price is UP

I prefer to ride my toxics at the beach in clean wind, they aren't really fond of gusty winds, but that's a price you pay, the better a kite performs the less it likes gusty wind.

soliver - 13-2-2014 at 06:40 AM

I have noticed it is not fond of the gusts.

ssayre - 13-2-2014 at 06:57 AM

I have heard the toxic handles a lot like a twister with a similar profile. Does anyone with experience with each find that to be true?

soliver - 13-2-2014 at 09:06 AM

Not so sure about that, I had a Twister at one point, and I think it has a lower AR than Toxic.

I have also heard that Twister doesn't move upwind as well.

Demoknight - 13-2-2014 at 01:17 PM

The Toxic has really good upwind. Sometimes you have to fight it a bit to keep it from overflying. Once it parks on the edge of the window, because it is a relatively low lift wing. You can park it at zenith or either side on the edge of the window and it barely pulls until you get to the top of its wind range. I flew static the other night in the snow and it was a steady 15mph gusting to 18mph. I could hold it down in the same wind on the buggy without ever feeling an OBE come on. In fact, I have only ever had two tiny OBE's with the Toxic. Both of which I was gently lifted up out of the seat and set down two yards or so downwind on my feet. My 5m Tensor has spanked me harder than the 8m Toxic.

riffclown - 13-2-2014 at 03:10 PM

The Toxic (at least the 2M) flies a lot like the CrossfireII. I flew the 2M's side by side and the Crossfire was slightly faster through the air but the Toxic had a marginally larger flight window. If I hadn't been flying them side by side to compare, I don't think I's have noticed the difference.

I'm told the PL Voltage has similar flight characteristics but I don't have firsthand knowledge on that front. If someone would like to send me a Voltage, I'll let you know

soliver - 13-2-2014 at 05:08 PM

I'm so glad this thread got pulled back up,... I'm enjoying the discussion on a new fav of mine :smilegrin:

SFKITER - 13-2-2014 at 10:22 PM

I love my Toxic

Demoknight - 14-2-2014 at 09:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

I'm so glad this thread got pulled back up,... I'm enjoying the discussion on a new fav of mine :smilegrin:

My Toxic is my favorite foil I have ever flown, depowers included.

ssayre - 14-2-2014 at 09:24 AM

Are you guys on hq's payroll?

You at least deserve a discount on your next toxic.

Demoknight - 14-2-2014 at 09:36 AM

Ha! I wish! I would LOVE a full set of them. I think my next high wind kite will be a 3m Toxic if it isn't a 6.5m or 8m Charger/Phantom.

riffclown - 14-2-2014 at 04:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Are you guys on hq's payroll?

You at least deserve a discount on your next toxic.

OK I'll bite. How much of a discount can I get for the 5M and 8M??

soliver - 14-2-2014 at 05:37 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Are you guys on hq's payroll?

You at least deserve a discount on your next toxic.

that's awesome,... I'd love that... You hear that Chris? You out there? Come in HQ, ARE YOU THERE????

I'll take a Montana 8, too while we're at it!!!

riffclown - 15-2-2014 at 01:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Are you guys on hq's payroll?

You at least deserve a discount on your next toxic.

that's awesome,... I'd love that... You hear that Chris? You out there? Come in HQ, ARE YOU THERE????

I'll take a Montana 8, too while we're at it!!!

I'd take a full set of Toxics. But I'd settle for the 8M..

3shot - 15-2-2014 at 02:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Are you guys on hq's payroll?

You at least deserve a discount on your next toxic.

that's awesome,... I'd love that... You hear that Chris? You out there? Come in HQ, ARE YOU THERE????

I'll take a Montana 8, too while we're at it!!!

I'd take a full set of Toxics.

Make that two sets Chris!

riffclown - 16-2-2014 at 05:15 PM

Or at least a great package deal for a whole set..

3shot - 16-2-2014 at 05:25 PM

Think I'm gonna try one my friends. I want to get one that will cover my most used wind range (2,3,4m). If It plays out, I very well may build a Toxic quiver.
Dang that red one sure would look good with my VTT. LOL

Demoknight - 17-2-2014 at 10:07 AM

The 6.5m is a bit too close to my 8m, but I will probably be wanting to pick up at least the 3m and possibly the 2m to go under my 5m Tensor. I really only pull out the Tensor in 18+ though, which is the point that the 8m Toxic is a bit too much to hold down. Since I bought my Charger, I didn't touch any of my fixed bridles for a few months. I put the Toxic up the other day and fell in love with it all over again. That thing is such a dream to fly. It is like a locomotive covered in pillows.

riffclown - 17-2-2014 at 11:07 AM

awwwww Now I want one even more!!!!

3shot - 17-2-2014 at 02:24 PM

I've got permission from fighter command :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Now just need to decide which one :puzzled:

riffclown - 17-2-2014 at 02:33 PM

It's Rock, Paper, Scissors time!!! I'm jealous.. Kind Of...I just want the package deal..the WHOLE package. All of'em. i've been waiting for one to pop up in the For Sale section for a while but they don't seem to be the type of kite people let go of..

3shot - 17-2-2014 at 02:41 PM

I still have the new buggy/kite curse from December going. One more kite can't possibly be any worse :P

Doesn't matter. Whichever one I decide on, the wind will either be too much or not enough for it :D

riffclown - 17-2-2014 at 02:46 PM

Welcome to the dark side... HQ wonderland

3shot - 17-2-2014 at 03:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

Welcome to the dark side... HQ wonderland

What, my 1.4 and 1.8 Symphony don't count?? :lol:

riffclown - 17-2-2014 at 03:52 PM

Are they 4 line?? OOPS Hijack alert.. Back to the Toxic 3M..

soliver - 21-2-2014 at 11:47 AM

I got out in the buggy today for the first time since Nov. 30th and the wind was semi conducive to the 3m size, so I brought out the Toxic. I realized that Toxic REALLY performs best good semi steady wind. Today was NOT semi steady and it was a regular luff-fest with the Toxic. I didn't start to get it humming until I pulled out the 4m Core. Unfortunately that wasn't until I only had 1/2 hour left to play, and I didn't have a strop on the Core

... I had to ride with KKs rather than the harness... It was really rocking, but my forearms are TOAST now.

So,... If you end up getting a Toxic, be choosy with what wind conditions you pull it out in. ATL wind can be really shifty and kinda gusty which it doesn't like.

Demoknight - 21-2-2014 at 01:49 PM

Good point Soliver. I do not like flying the Toxic in shifty winds because it sits so far up in the window that it will overfly and luff badly when the wind shifts or lulls. To counteract this, I usually keep brake tension pretty solid the closer I feel I am towards the edge of the window and always be ready to redirect to keep the luff from happening. I suppose it is good to know that the smaller sizes behave closely to the 8m. I wasn't sure if they had the same quirks because of the smaller size.

riffclown - 21-2-2014 at 02:26 PM

They really like a bit of brake input and you do have to keep in mind that they are fast enough to overfly their windows..

3shot - 21-2-2014 at 02:50 PM

Yup. The higher the performance of the kite, the more asinine they become lol

I think the majority of us deal with washy inland winds Soliver. Only a select few of us can ride every day in the desert or oceanfront. I plan on starting out with a 4m Toxic then building up and down from there. I am hoping for the best with my inland wind too, but am really gearing that quiver to mega fields and beaches. My Ozone Flow quiver does a great job at scrubbing washy winds and saving the day. They may not be the fastest or most exciting kite to fly, but they are as stable as they come and WILL move a buggy when others fail. Just like your Core saved the day today.

soliver - 21-2-2014 at 03:28 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking I might get a couple of lower AR kites (when I can) to help out with this, maybe just a 3m & 5m to help out... I think maybe it's just the winter winds. Spring's just around the corner and it may be better then.

3shot - 21-2-2014 at 04:10 PM

The Reactor II's AR are spot on to the Toxic's. Owners of both claim the RII is still faster than the Toxic. Sized respectively of course

Demoknight - 21-2-2014 at 04:22 PM

Probably true about the Reactor being a little faster, but does it turn as well as the Toxic? Also, just throwing this out there: There is a pretty big price difference between the Toxic and comparable kites such as the Reactor. I think the Toxic is the cheapest kite you can get that can do what it does while still having excellent build quality and the insanely good bag they come in.

3shot - 21-2-2014 at 06:26 PM

I don't own a Toxic "yet", but everything I gather say they love brakes and turn BETTER than a Reactor LOL. Reactor's are great too but are a little fussy about brake steering.

I also dig quality bags bro. Not a fan of the new "economy" Reactor 2013 bags. Guess I'm a snob lol.

And trust me, there is nothing cheap about the build quality of the performance HQ kites. Their material feels more rigid, and their bridles are second to none.

soliver - 21-2-2014 at 06:31 PM

I have 2 RII's and they don't like brakes as much as Toxic, in fact too much brakes makes RII poop out. If I need my RII to turn a little sharper I'll give it a touch of the brake, but very little, but the 8.6m in particular is not a fan. That said, given how Toxic responds to brakes, it's very likely that Toxic turns faster, but probably only marginally.

My 5.5m RII did better in today's shifty wind than the Toxic, it was just too much kite today.

3shot - 21-2-2014 at 06:38 PM

Well, if I fail, my resident HQ neighbor riffclown will get me up and running in no time. He loves him some Crossfire II now.

riffclown - 21-2-2014 at 06:43 PM

After flying the Toxic side by side with the Crossfire II, it's the only kite I would even consider as a replacement. If one of my Crossfires ever gets damaged, you can bet the replacement will be a Toxic.

Demoknight - 25-2-2014 at 02:10 PM

I am never selling my 8m Toxic until it gets old and ragged. Even then I would probably give it a Viking funeral instead.

3shot - 25-2-2014 at 04:53 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight

I am never selling my 8m Toxic until it gets old and ragged. Even then I would probably give it a Viking funeral instead.

Viking funeral LOL.
That is awesome!

riffclown - 25-2-2014 at 05:18 PM

If there is a funeral pyre, please be careful no to breathe toxic fumes..

3shot - 25-2-2014 at 08:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

I've got permission from fighter command :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Now just need to decide which one :puzzled:

Well guys I picked up the Toxic 4m. :evil:

Review to come...

3shot - 25-2-2014 at 08:12 PM

Hope to try it out this weekend. Oh wait, I still have the new buggy/kite curse still. This ought to be triple whammy interesting..

soliver - 25-2-2014 at 08:24 PM

Sweetness!!!!

Enjoy the sooooooper crispy fun,... He's gonna pull like a Mac truck.

Maybe I should get a Flexi Rage now so we can match :smilegrin:

Wait a minute,... Did you sell your RII?

riffclown - 25-2-2014 at 08:29 PM

Trying to decide btween the 5M & 8M myself.

Clive - 26-2-2014 at 04:24 AM

Went out last Saturday with the 4m toxic, wind was square onshore at something a little over 20 knots did about 42 mph, done better than that with a tail wind, but was losing traction severely ....... So I had to order the 3m it will be here tomorrow , now I've got the set except for the 2m , that might be a while away as I will need close to 30 knots to fly that one.

ssayre - 27-2-2014 at 06:49 AM

Quote:

soliver quoted: Yeah, I'm thinking I might get a couple of lower AR kites (when I can) to help out with this, maybe just a 3m & 5m to help out... I think maybe it's just the winter winds. Spring's just around the corner and it may be better then.

I was thinking that as well. I just bought a 3 meter beamer for high wind days and was thinking about getting a 5 meterish low ar for medium wind gusty days. I think it would be interesting if they had 6 and 8 meter Hornet/beamer like kites available to try out in the buggy. Maybe not, I don't have enough buggy experience to know yet.

Demoknight - 27-2-2014 at 07:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown

Trying to decide btween the 5M & 8M myself.

Riff I would say go with the 8m because you already have a lot to overlap with the 5m.

P.S. Riff you killed me with the toxic fumes.... :lol: