Power Kite Forum

Upwind vs Downwind

Streetrider56 - 22-1-2014 at 01:48 PM

Hey all
I have been fortunate by way of having the wind to fly almost every day. Lately working on transitions and static jumps.
What I had noticed and find a bit confusing is upwind vs downwind.
I fly at a local.park on the soccer field. In my mind, there should not be a difference. Wind that that comes off the lake is fairly smooth.
I can understand this at the beach when wind direction is not dead onshore. At the park I am able to fly in any direction.
I'm sure there is some logical explanation for this.
Also, seems upwind is always to my left.

Suds after thuds - 22-1-2014 at 03:29 PM

Wind has to come from somewhere, and good luck with it, if it's shifting around in every direction. I had a swirling situation once where a flag was flapping towards my face and I was holding the kite at about 45º dead in front of me. In a wind like that I was confused where upwind was too. I find that a big wind shift of say—90º is enough to collapse my kite.

But that don't make no never mind; just saying wind blowing in every direction does not help me get to where I'm heading.

You can't sail into the wind, you must tack to get there. I feel like I'm doing well, if I'm holding a line ca. 50º off the wind on a KLB. The faster you go the higher you can point. The higher upwind or turned up into the oncoming wind the slower you go. Falling off the wind can increase your speed, but if you have speed and head directly down wind you will luff up your kite.

I have heard that we all have a preferred tack, which would keep the wind on a dominant side.

BeamerBob - 22-1-2014 at 03:42 PM

If you stand with the wind directly to your back with arms pointed straight out to each side, your arms are perpendicular to the wind. If you imagine a line on the ground aligned with your arms, extending across your riding space, it is what you would measure upwind vs downwind for your forward progress. If you are getting blown away from the line, you are drifting "downwind". If you are edging back and getting closer to or getting behind that imaginary line, then you are working "upwind".

DAKITEZ - 22-1-2014 at 04:24 PM

I like that explanation BB

3shot - 22-1-2014 at 04:34 PM

+1 Bmrbob!:thumbup:

Streetrider56 - 22-1-2014 at 05:13 PM

I get that BB. Good explanation. What Im experiencing is with the wind at my back, from the west, riding to the right or south, is downwind and have to keep the kite high. When riding to my left or north, kite is lower and I'm edging hard to get upfield. Strangely it takes more effort to go one way than the other. Even though the wind is fairly smooth.
One would think riding in either direction would be the same.
I have no issues tacking.

Edit
I guess now that Im paying more attention to stuff like that.

Bladerunner - 22-1-2014 at 05:48 PM

I think I understand what you are saying. I have often felt that I can cruise upwind effortlessly on one side and have to work harder on the other ? I have just sort of written it up to strong side vs weak side ?

We all learn things better on one side than the other . I always say when you have learned it right. Learn it left right away ! If you don't do that early it makes for bad habits down the road.

BB's explanation is great. I tend to look for something a bit upwind to aim for. You go where you look.

soliver - 22-1-2014 at 05:52 PM

I used to be in the same headspace as far as understanding why it was more difficult in one direction than the other. So what I had to come to understand is that in the "easy" direction I'm moving ever so slightly downwind. That harder trip back to where I started is back upwind. Angus taught me the method of getting back upwind easier by moving in a pattern kind of like the teeth on a saw. This is done by changing your upwind travel slightly more downwind, then making a turn around at almost 90 deg to your original downwind tack, then back upwind,... This is REALLY hard to explain, but in the end you end up making a sawtooth kind of pattern.
A diagram would help.

Btw... REALLY loved BB's explanation

MeatÐriver - 22-1-2014 at 05:55 PM

Not entirely sure that I'm following you correctly, but that's ok...one thing does come to mind though. Is it possible that there is even a slight elevation change between the north(being the high side) and south sides of your park? May not even be too discernible by eye. Just a thought.

BeamerBob - 22-1-2014 at 05:56 PM

This does sound exactly like a good side, bad side scenario. Most anyone on a board has this to some extent. Really good and experienced riders have been able to diminish the difference but even they have a favorite side and direction.

RedSky - 22-1-2014 at 06:09 PM

If the wind is coming from the west then directly downwind is east.
To qualify as riding downwind there must be at least an element of easterly travel. Assuming the wind is blowing from the west then riding directly north or south is called crosswind and should as you say be ridden in either direction with the same ease unless you're on a hill.

It can be easy to confuse the layout of your field or beach with wind direction. Most beaches are just narrow strips of sand and you are confined to going just up and down the beach. If the wind is not directly on-shore (which it rarely is) then one direction is going to be easier to ride than the other, unlike a field where you can pretty much go where you like.

(updated to make sense) :rolleyes:

now going to bed because it's very late, I'm tired and I shouldn't be let loose on a keyboard. :frog:

carltb - 22-1-2014 at 06:54 PM

you could also be moving in and out of a wind shadow. as you travel to your right you are going deeper into the shadow, therefore making it harder work but as you transition and travel to the left you move out of it and progressively get cleaner winds

soliver - 22-1-2014 at 07:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
I used to be in the same headspace as far as understanding why it was more difficult in one direction than the other. So what I had to come to understand is that in the "easy" direction I'm moving ever so slightly downwind. That harder trip back to where I started is back upwind. Angus taught me the method of getting back upwind easier by moving in a pattern kind of like the teeth on a saw. This is done by changing your upwind travel slightly more downwind, then making a turn around at almost 90 deg to your original downwind tack, then back upwind,... This is REALLY hard to explain, but in the end you end up making a sawtooth kind of pattern.
A diagram would help.


This is what I mean if its at all decipherable:

Grey is wind direction
Green is the downwind tack
Red is the upwind "sawtooth" maneuver

Streetrider56 - 23-1-2014 at 04:43 AM

The field is relatively level. @ Redsky, (riding crosswind), That is what I was thinking. Having the room to alter direction in relation to the wind should be of little difference. Riding style as Bladerunner stated seems to be what I'm seeing. Also explains getting low mileage from the right shoe.
Thanks to all. Be safe

3shot - 23-1-2014 at 05:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
I used to be in the same headspace as far as understanding why it was more difficult in one direction than the other. So what I had to come to understand is that in the "easy" direction I'm moving ever so slightly downwind. That harder trip back to where I started is back upwind. Angus taught me the method of getting back upwind easier by moving in a pattern kind of like the teeth on a saw. This is done by changing your upwind travel slightly more downwind, then making a turn around at almost 90 deg to your original downwind tack, then back upwind,... This is REALLY hard to explain, but in the end you end up making a sawtooth kind of pattern.
A diagram would help.


This is what I mean if its at all decipherable:

Grey is wind direction
Green is the downwind tack
Red is the upwind "sawtooth" maneuver



Great example!!

snowspider - 24-1-2014 at 02:20 PM

Two words: CORIOLIS EFFECT !

RedSky - 24-1-2014 at 03:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by snowspider  
Two words: CORIOLIS EFFECT !


Double take. I thought it said something else. :rolleyes:

snowspider - 24-1-2014 at 04:03 PM

The rotational direction of "something else" in the northern hemisphere is optional and will not affect kite flying.