Power Kite Forum

Montana IV leading edge tuck

Cheddarhead - 9-2-2014 at 08:52 PM

Flew my 12.5m Montana today and had lots of issues with the leading edge suddenly tucking in and then kite folding up. Kite then reopens in the window and yanks me. Always occured when going slightly upwind. It acts just like the wind is getting behind the leading edge and pushing it in, causing it to fold up. Had this happen the last time I flew it also. My 2013 9m Frenzy never does this even when at the edge of the window. I can go crazy upwind with my Frenzy and it always holds it's shape well. Anybody else have this happen? Flew Montana for 1hr today, then put it away because this was so annoying, then put my Frenzy up and it flew like a dream for the rest of the day. What gives?

erratic winds - 9-2-2014 at 09:14 PM

Sounds like a twist in the bridle making center front lines just a tiny bit short, do you have the opportunity to spread the kite out on a non-windy day and make sure there's nothing like that going on? I had that happen a fair bit on my slingshot ranger after it inverted and went inside out and re-inflated, bridle looked OK but on close inspection it was not perfect.

Cheddarhead - 9-2-2014 at 09:27 PM

Yeah, I have room I can spread it out and take a looksy. Not sure what I should be looking for or what I should be measuring, but I'll look it over. Could the rear lines be too long? Flew slightly better when the bar was held in but stearing wasn't overly sloppy like they were excessively long.

erratic winds - 9-2-2014 at 10:24 PM

I would hold the bridle up and make sure each line is straight to its connection point on the wing without wraps or tangles, that's what I ran into..

John Holgate - 10-2-2014 at 04:07 AM

Sounds a little similar to a problem I had with an Apex II 5m. Except it would happen when I let the bar out, the kite picked up speed and then the leading edge would fold over. If I remember right, we fixed the problem by shortening the 3 outer A bridles on each side by an inch and she's flown sweet ever since.

shehatesmyhobbies - 10-2-2014 at 06:27 AM

I remember the same thing on my Montana III especially at the edge of the window. I made a simple power lead extension, 3 or 4 inches and it fixed it pretty good. Also had the same thing on the ranger. Fixed after a power line mod as well. Took a bit more on the ranger.

Bladerunner - 10-2-2014 at 10:03 AM

I am way out of my knowledge zone here but this sounds like what was happening with my Aurora.

Powerzone installed an adjustable " wac ? " line between my A and B clusters. About 10 - 12 inches adjustable to shorter. As per Flysurfer. It seemed to do the job?

Cheddarhead - 10-2-2014 at 10:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate  
Sounds a little similar to a problem I had with an Apex II 5m. Except it would happen when I let the bar out, the kite picked up speed and then the leading edge would fold over.


Yes John, exact same symptoms. Bar in the out position makes it speed up to the window edge and then LE wants to tuck inside and try to flip the kite front to back. Then all lines go slack, kite starts falling like a leaf, reopens properly in the center of the window and gives you a large yank. Rinse and repeat.

I won't have time to look things over till Wed when I get my next day off. Thanks for the suggestions so far!!

Chrisz - 10-2-2014 at 11:35 AM

My apex 5m is doing the same thing I was told I was flying too close to the window and I had dirty and gusty wind.

Really curious to find out your problem

B-Roc - 10-2-2014 at 11:52 AM

This is the type of information which really should be shared in customer reviews. I've heard a lot about how HQ has improved and how they are comparable to Ozone in performance and have considered buying a Montana or Apex many times. I'm a bit surprised that this is a problem on the newest version Apex and yet this is the first time a thread has discussed the matter. Dirty wind performance is one thing but for multiple people to be having the problem speaks more to a design issue that again, I wish was mentioned more frequently when the kites were reviewed. Reviews should not be marketing and sales aids - they should be customer focused.

Are others having this problem too or is it just a gen IV and earlier issue on the Montana but still a problem on all versions of the Apex?

flyguy0101 - 10-2-2014 at 12:24 PM

http://www.invento-hq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1751

here is a link (its old but i knew i had saved it) discussing the LE collapse on the older apex II and the best way to fix it. Not sure if this would work with the other models or montana but thought it might help
FYI- I have never had this happen on my 7.5 apex II only the 5m

John Holgate - 10-2-2014 at 01:23 PM

The pic in that link is what I remember doing to mine. I didn't unpick the bridles, I just made a fig 8 loop in each of the marked bridle lines - which certainly shortened it a fair bit more than unpicking and tying an overhand or similar knot in the bridles. I sent the new measurements to Jan at HQ and he had some new bridles made up and sent to me. My 7.5m II never had this problem either. Spent a day flying the 5m III and didn't encounter the problem.

ssayre - 10-2-2014 at 01:30 PM

Just curious Cheddar and others with this problem, Is this a problem you know you have right from day one with the kite or is it a problem that comes later with continued use.

DAKITEZ - 10-2-2014 at 01:37 PM

It has been a long time but I seem to remember this on this older version montana. Just to set the record straight the VII was greatly improved in this area and even caused me to switch from frenzy to the montana. Previous versions before the VII I personally did not care for much but they got it right on the VII.
A few things to check without getting all fancy on bridle stuff:
1 - what knot do you have the flying lines on? If I remember correctly that version will have 3 knots on the center line of the bar to connect the main flying lines to. The knot closest to the bar is useless so do not use it. The middle knot was most common used. If you are having over fly or folding issues move the lines out one knot away from the bar.
1a - where is your trimmer adjusted at? Pull it in and see if the kite stabilizes.
2 - if you need to go to the furthest knot on question 1 and you have the trimmer all the way in on 1a. Do you see a difference for the better? If so and you need more adjustment you can then make new knots on the outside leader lines of the bar to shorten the rear steering lines.
I would do these steps first before making any bridle adjustments.

Cheddarhead - 10-2-2014 at 02:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Chrisz  
My apex 5m is doing the same thing I was told I was flying too close to the window and I had dirty and gusty wind.

Really curious to find out your problem


I'm confident that it wasn't gust related or window edge related. Wind Sunday was quite smooth, besides I flew my Frenzy immediately after the Montana and had none of these issues whatsoever.

Cheddarhead - 10-2-2014 at 02:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DAKITEZ  
It has been a long time but I seem to remember this on this older version montana. Just to set the record straight the VII was greatly improved in this area and even caused me to switch from frenzy to the montana. Previous versions before the VII I personally did not care for much but they got it right on the VII.
A few things to check without getting all fancy on bridle stuff:
1 - what knot do you have the flying lines on? If I remember correctly that version will have 3 knots on the center line of the bar to connect the main flying lines to. The knot closest to the bar is useless so do not use it. The middle knot was most common used. If you are having over fly or folding issues move the lines out one knot away from the bar.
1a - where is your trimmer adjusted at? Pull it in and see if the kite stabilizes.
2 - if you need to go to the furthest knot on question 1 and you have the trimmer all the way in on 1a. Do you see a difference for the better? If so and you need more adjustment you can then make new knots on the outside leader lines of the bar to shorten the rear steering lines.
I would do these steps first before making any bridle adjustments.


Thanks Dino,

I'll def give the simple stuff a try first. Extra knotting, bridle picking, extensions, are all stuff I would do as a last resort.

John Holgate - 10-2-2014 at 09:45 PM

Mine happened from new and it was glaringly obvious that it just wasn't right. Video was made and sent to Jan at HQ and he diagnosed the center of the kite flying too fast compared to the tips (I think....it was a few years ago now) he suggested the outer A bridles to be shortened and it completely fixed the problem.

You could probably larks head a small fishing ring or similar into the bridles rather than a knot. Or a clove hitch around a match/small dowel or similar.

I think I ended up using the knots closest to the bar on the 7.5m II after some time....the power lines do tend to stretch a bit.

BeamerBob - 11-2-2014 at 01:33 PM

I thought the Montanas were the perfect kite from VI and beyond. I never had to adjust anything. Fast flying right out of the bag. I remember some issues with the III and IV with the V being pretty well sorted.

Cheddarhead - 11-2-2014 at 02:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
I thought the Montanas were the perfect kite from VI and beyond. I never had to adjust anything. Fast flying right out of the bag. I remember some issues with the III and IV with the V being pretty well sorted.


This is a fourth gen Montana Bobby. Love the kite! Just having a few performance issues is all. Don't get me wrong, I would buy a new one in a hearbeat.

BeamerBob - 11-2-2014 at 03:17 PM

I understand Cheddarhead. I hope you can get it sorted and it's an easy fix.

Kiteflyer933 - 23-2-2014 at 12:04 PM

I have the same kite and model but mine is 9.5m....I have that kind of situation when the wind is very gusty....my solution is to use the trim adjuster and pull it down to the lowest setting.....but that folding situation happens very rare and if only my trim adjuster is on full power setting and I'm on the very edge of the wind doing upwind direction.....So setting the trim in the middle to the lowest at any cruising speed keeps my kite flying smooth....Cheers!:)

Cheddarhead - 23-2-2014 at 03:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Kiteflyer933  
I have the same kite and model but mine is 9.5m....I have that kind of situation when the wind is very gusty....my solution is to use the trim adjuster and pull it down to the lowest setting.....but that folding situation happens very rare and if only my trim adjuster is on full power setting and I'm on the very edge of the wind doing upwind direction.....So setting the trim in the middle to the lowest at any cruising speed keeps my kite flying smooth....Cheers!:)


Do you know what knot you have your leading edge flying lines attached to? Mine was on the knot closest to the bar and I switched it to the middle knot. Seemed to help some. I then put them on the knot closest to the kite and problem almost dissapeared. I can live with that:smilegrin: Thanks for the input!