Power Kite Forum

HD tv / hdmi / cable inputs???

B-Roc - 27-3-2014 at 04:52 PM

So our 19 year old tube TV that we bought the day we came back from our honeymoon is on the blink and we've invested in a HD Samsung TV and blu ray player with Bose sound bar. I'm totally psyched to get it installed but I have some questions for those of you who have already done this.

We are going to wall mount the TV and bury all the cables in the wall so I want to make sure I am futureproofed before its too late.

The TV has upto 4 HDMI inputs and I'm going to run 3 HDMI cables (cable, blu ray, X-box). Given the cables are $80 a pop am I crazy to not run the 4th for safey's sake?

Also we still have a very funcitonal DVD/VHS recorder / player which my wife uses to burn camcorder video to DVD and my son uses the inputs to play Wii on our tube TV. If I run an analog line to connect the DVD/VHS and Wii, that's another $100. Are analog A/V lines a thing of the past and do new camcorders plug easily into computers to transfer video?

Am I making a mistake not running a 4th hdmi line and analog A/V lines or should I pay for the extra cables and labor to fully blow out the system for what we have now and whatever technology comes down the road?

I'm also considering a remote repeater so I can put all the components in a closet as opposed to a shelf in the corner. The repeater is cool and seems bomb proof but just adds more expense.

The installers, of course say a full blown entertainment system is well worth the money and its better to run cables now then later. I agree with that but don't want to buy cables and inputs I'll never use or miss out on an opportunity to connect future devices because I didn't account for them. Thoughts / Suggestions??

bigkid - 27-3-2014 at 05:25 PM

Yep, run the 4th cable.
unless they install flexible conduit in the wall, just leave enough room to slide the end of what ever you decide to add later on.

bigkid - 27-3-2014 at 05:27 PM

As for the full blown setup, as soon as you figure it out and how to operate the system, a new one is out on the shelfs making your system a dinosaur.

B-Roc - 27-3-2014 at 05:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
As for the full blown setup, as soon as you figure it out and how to operate the system, a new one is out on the shelfs making your system a dinosaur.


I hear you. I'm going 1080 HD LED and right beside my new TV is the 4k systems which are immediately rendering 1080 HD a thing of the past. So I'm stepping up to obsolesence and it hasn't even been installed. :(:rolleyes:

ssayre - 27-3-2014 at 05:46 PM

I think we've gone backwards some. In the 80s we had to have a cable box with special remote. Then for a long time you didn't need a cable box and special remote. Now we are back to a service provider box and special remote. I like the hd and dvr but everything seems more complicated than ever. Sorry I'm no help but enjoy the new set up when you get it.

cheezycheese - 27-3-2014 at 06:18 PM

$80 a cable.... really.... Brian my friend allow me to introduce you to:
http://www.cablesforless.com/Value-HDMI-Cables-Good-C119.asp...

They are just as good. Been using them for years. At this price you can run all the cables you want... :thumbup:

riffclown - 27-3-2014 at 06:28 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cheezycheese  
$80 a cable.... really.... Brian my friend allow me to introduce you to:
http://www.cablesforless.com/Value-HDMI-Cables-Good-C119.asp...

They are just as good. Been using them for years. At this price you can run all the cables you want... :thumbup:


Concur. +1!!

BeamerBob - 27-3-2014 at 06:43 PM

Mono price .com is my source. Any length you want and they come in colors if you want to keep them separated.

wiers - 27-3-2014 at 07:03 PM

I use mono price as well. Worth the wait for the savings.

wiers - 27-3-2014 at 07:06 PM

I use mono price as well. Worth the wait for the savings.

BeamerBob - 27-3-2014 at 07:19 PM

Article on HDMI cable quality

Monoprice

Now I'm on the real computer and can link you up.

B-Roc - 27-3-2014 at 07:22 PM

Thanks guys, I'm aware of monoprice and there is also a local cable store that's relatively reasonable. The cables are 35' long which is why they are expensive. I could get Redmere HDMI from monoprice for about half that but the installation company matched the best local price I could find. Additionally, if I don't use their cables and something goes wrong I have to play the "its not our problem its the cable" and the cable people saying "its not the cable its the installation" game.

Anyone think I should wire for component A/V and S video or just straight on hdmi?

BeamerBob - 27-3-2014 at 07:28 PM

Since you still use the DVD VCR, run cables for it but from this point forward, most everything you would hardwire permanently, will use HDMI. Any temp stuff you can just plug directly into the tv. I'd run a conduit for the cables inside the wall to assist in future cable replacement or additions if you can gain access. The conduit can be anything, since it's just a wire chase that smooths out all the corners. PVC pipe would work wonders. Your installers might have a solution if you are working with finished walls.

I run HDMI from each video component to my video/audio receiver and then only one cable to my tv. All sound and video go through the receiver and it does the switching. Receiver handles surround sound duties. It's even a dual amp so it can separately play from a different audio source for the back yard. Best system I've ever had.

bigkid - 27-3-2014 at 10:11 PM



Dont use pvc, use the blue plastic one piece if you are going more than 8 feet. Pvc elbows are to tight for the corners. The couplers create catches for the fishtape and anything you try to shove down the pipe.

This is the stuff that works very well,
Flex-Plus® Carlon Blue® ENT (Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing).

Another thing is the different types of cables will interfere with other cables and the signal traveling through them. Electrical conduit is made of material that helps shield the wires from interference with your home romax and phone, and cable, and other stuff. You dont normally run everything in the same chase or conduit because of quality in your signal strength is degraded by other wires running different signals.

This is just what I learned by installing and working on 1/2 million dollor plus theater and media rooms. Not the monster cables used in the past when installing speakers that are 5 feet tall and the good old cassette players.



B-Roc - 28-3-2014 at 04:59 AM

Anyone know if I need a repeater or not for a 35' Hdmi run? Installer says no. Web research says maybe or yes when over 30'. That's why I like the Redmere Hdmi but installer says not needed. Not sure if that's because they like Monster or just because they know better than me.

bigkid - 28-3-2014 at 05:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc  
Anyone know if I need a repeater or not for a 35' Hdmi run? Installer says no. Web research says maybe or yes when over 30'. That's why I like the Redmere Hdmi but installer says not needed. Not sure if that's because they like Monster or just because they know better than me.

depends on what you hook it up to and what it comes from. You need so much power to operate the item, as you know you loose power over long runs. Its called resistance, only thing that doesnt loose much if any is fiber optics. Lets not go there, you got a bottom to your pocket.:lol:

Demoknight - 28-3-2014 at 06:12 AM

If I were you, I would consider an A/V receiver so that you have virtually unlimited expand-ability in the future and will only have to run a single cable to the TV from the A/V box. You plug all devices into the box instead of the TV, so TV stays on the same input channel and only has to have power and a single HDMI cable attached.

B-Roc - 28-3-2014 at 08:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight  
If I were you, I would consider an A/V receiver so that you have virtually unlimited expand-ability in the future and will only have to run a single cable to the TV from the A/V box. You plug all devices into the box instead of the TV, so TV stays on the same input channel and only has to have power and a single HDMI cable attached.


A coworker just made that same suggestion and it seems like the answer that makes most sense. Thank you for that suggestion and all the others that have been made too.

PKF members are the best!!

B-Roc - 28-3-2014 at 09:55 AM

Major bummer. Just spoke with installer and Bose and they both say receivers aren't compatible with their sound bars so I guess I'm running long, expensive cables :sniff:

dangerdan - 28-3-2014 at 10:02 AM

I once had 2 20ft cables connected with a HDMI connector . I did not notice any difference in video quality using satellite TV.

BeamerBob - 28-3-2014 at 10:12 AM

I'd ditch the sound bar if it's the limiting factor. If you want to add the receiver or surround later, you will be storing it in the garage anyway.

Since HDMI is a digital signal, it either reaches the device intact or it doesn't. If the signal isn't making it, your picture will be totally unviewable or nonexistent.

wiers - 28-3-2014 at 11:29 AM

I ran a think it was 30' mono price hdmi cable in the wall from my blue ray player to tv and did not notice any issues in picture quality

Demoknight - 28-3-2014 at 12:00 PM

I see, the Bose is optical only it looks like... I would consider ditching it as well and getting a quality surround setup. They do make very good wireless surround systems, if you are worried about running a ton of cables under the carpet or through the ceiling. But for what it's worth, I don't know why you can't just find an A/V box with optical audio output.

Demoknight - 28-3-2014 at 12:03 PM

And yes there will never be a fuzzy picture over HDMI. You either get a picture or you don't. There really isn't much in between. HDMI cables can be up to ~45' before they stop being compliant, so length shouldn't be an issue if the devices are all in the same room.

B-Roc - 28-3-2014 at 01:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight  
But for what it's worth, I don't know why you can't just find an A/V box with optical audio output.


It didn’t sound like it was so much the optical input option as the receiver I suggested had that. It seemed to be more about the way they both amplify and balance the audio. I could go with a 5 speaker system as I actually have an old Sony already wired but it is about as old as the tube TV. I guess the one trades simplicity and price for expandability with the sound bar vs. home theater option.

bigkid - 28-3-2014 at 02:13 PM

The sound bar is another story. Not long ago you could buy a good tv with FRONT FACING SPEAKERS, not anymore. They all face down or back. So they came up with a new idea of facing the speakers forward, toward the ears that are listening, the sound bar.
anything to charge an extra 200 bucks after you buy the new stupid hd tv.

I would just spend a few bucks and buy a headset, the rest can learn to read lips.:evil::D

B-Roc - 28-3-2014 at 05:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
I would just spend a few bucks and buy a headset, the rest can learn to read lips.:evil::D


:D

That and some glasses.

I just picked the TV up and as we're driving home my wife says, "it hurts my eyes to look at that. Its too bright or too small (46")". So now I'm looking at another room configuration and the only thing we're definately keeping is the TV :mad:

BeamerBob - 28-3-2014 at 06:02 PM

My wife wanted surround speakers to be invisible, so I got the largest that met the criteria for "appearance". Even she didn't like their sound, so we upgraded, and then upgraded again. I was mostly happy and she could settle that they blended in pretty well. Is a slightly larger tv much more money? I'd have thought the 55" class was the easy price these days.

B-Roc - 28-3-2014 at 07:30 PM

Its the room that limits the TV size. The room has six windows, 2 entrances and a fireplace with limited wall space. a 46' fits perfect and I mean perfect (like the house was built around it) between the 2 front windows with moderate room reconfiguration. The 46" also fits on an interior wall with major room reconfiguration (and my wife thought on that wall we'd be sitting WAY too close to a 55").

BeamerBob - 28-3-2014 at 09:52 PM

The old rules about distance from the tv have changed a lot with hd.

bigkid - 28-3-2014 at 10:21 PM

I told the salesman when he asked how big of a tv I was looking for, I want to still be able to watch tv when all the grandkids are standing in front of the screen. I got a 65 inch that fits in a room 10x12, with the suround sound speakers and my recliner theres no room for the grandkids to stand in fron of the tv :lol:
There is room for one of them to sit on the subwoofer, untill the explosion catapults the poor kid into the ceiling. :evil:

OmniSmurfZ - 31-3-2014 at 09:53 AM

I pimped my house out nicely and it was a good amount of work and testing to get right, but soo worth it.

The office has my computer/server. The living room has a TV and the basement has a TV. HDMI runs from my server to the basement where my amp/splitter is (input slot). Output 1 hdmi runs to the TV downstairs. Output 2 hdmi runs back upstairs for tv in living room. The computer can now display its image on the tv in the basement and the tv in the living room at the same time. Movies/shows/tv streams/sports streams/video games/web surfing/picture sharing. This was all done in the walls using a fish, no insulation or piping or anything. But you need to be able to control the computer from where you are in the house....

Usb2Cat5 adapter 1 goes into usb of computer, cat5 down to basement and sits by the tv with a bluetooth adapter in the usb end of it. Usb2cat5 adapter 2 goes into usb of computer, cat5 down to basement, cat5 back up to living room (easier/neater to go down/up), and sits by the tv with a bluetooth adapter in the usb end of it. Now I have bluetooth coverage in the whole house for a bluetooth wireless keyboard.


Recommended hdmi cables for running wires long distances and through walls. I used a 50 ft cable with no signal loss in one of my first testing runs. You do have to make the holes rather big when running them through studs or your electrical box.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dap...

Recommended hdmi amp/splitter if you need something like this.
http://www.amazon.com/HD-104-Powered-Splitter-Support-Output...

I used this for cat5 to usb - They break kind of easily so I ordered 3 sets.
http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY%C2%AE-over-Extension-Cable-Adap...

Keyboard/Mouse combo I use when in front of a TV.
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Built-In-Mu...

Xbox 360 Wireless adapter for computer - I leave this at the computer end and my controllers work throughout the house - Awesome!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E0OB7MW/ref=ox_sc_sfl_ti...

Universal Remote - Cheap, and I can control the TV/Cable Box/Sound Reciever/Xbox
http://www.amazon.com/URC-Universal-Control-Components-Favor...

Right now I just have a 2.1 system for my sound, nothing behind the couch/back of living room. I don't want to think about how much of a pain it will be to run speaker wires back there and remain hidden.

Annnd no I don't work for amazon... Haha.

Some things I learned: Using 50' hdmi and a adapter/extender to another 30' hdmi to finish the run. It looked like it was all fine and dandy. If I went to play a bluray the sound would move up and down in volume. I had to get that amp/splitter that I listed above. For HDMI the video signal is usually there or not, but the audio is where you can really tell if you have degradation of the signal.

zalex820 - 31-3-2014 at 07:26 PM

I agree with big kid. Run what you need for now and just leave some kind of flex pipe in the for the future. This way you can run another cable at any point through the tube in the wall.

OmniSmurfZ - 1-4-2014 at 04:43 AM

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OmniSmurfZ - 1-4-2014 at 04:43 AM

Microwaves can also cause an issue with cables that aren't well insulated/protected. The piping will probably help protect from that too. That was an interesting one. Why does the screen go black for 2-3 minutes everytime my gf goes up stairs to make popcorn??

Honestly I would run the extra hdmi cable and av cables now, just so you don't have to worry about getting back in there to do it. There might be decorations or other unforseeables that get in the way over time that would make it a pain to get back in there. I would not want to have to re-run anything with my setup, I like the peace of mind of everything is done and I won't have to mess with this again! Except for when everything moves to a new hdmi version or displayport? /facepalm

B-Roc - 1-4-2014 at 07:29 AM

Thanks for all the advice. Its being installed as I type and I'm running all cables for future proofing purposes. CAn't wait to watch TV tonight!!

carltb - 1-4-2014 at 11:45 AM

when I mount my tv i cut a big enough channel in the wall to put some pvc tubing in (cant remember the diameter but pretty thick) and also put a long piece of string through it. this give me the advantage of adding whatever cables I like when I like or even change the tv

OmniSmurfZ - 1-4-2014 at 12:08 PM

^^ Thats a good way to do it ctb.