lowk8me - 27-11-2006 at 02:59 PM
About a year ago I bought a para-wing of sorts with a view to taking up kite jumping as a Sunday pastime...In the meantime I've become a DAD.
So mother has said That I can't go running to her when I break my leg (s, arms and neck) after taking 40ft leaps down the beach..
But I figure with a good strong stake, a 3m. teather and some niffy wrist work I could hang out over the beach no problem....
You may think I'm mad ..but your ideas and suggestions will help...
pea - 27-11-2006 at 03:10 PM
hang out over the beach? teather? Do you mean tie your kite to a big stake and fly, rope stopping you from flying off? From what i've been told
3metres aren't good for lift (or landing) and i don't think you'd get long periods of air time anyway.
skymeat - 27-11-2006 at 03:15 PM
I think he meant a big stake, like 3m. I had a similar idea. Was thinking about hanging off a bridge, and being able to fly the like through a full
hemisphere. I don't know how safe it would be, but I'd be sure to make an anchor you could trust your life to. Like multiple stakes equalized, and
capped, like the plastic safety caps on rebar.
pea - 27-11-2006 at 03:40 PM
Like the end of this movie. Sorry to spam, can't be bothered to find it on youtube. someone jumps off a pier at the end. Dono what you mean by flying
through a hemisphere ó.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=semzVdaACTU&eurl=
skymeat - 27-11-2006 at 03:43 PM
I meant that the wind window would be half a sphere, instead of a quarter. the kite could fly under you.
Pablo - 27-11-2006 at 11:21 PM
Teathered flying is bad, some guys do it safely and succesfully, but it's not for the average joe and for sure best avoided by someone new to the
sport.
The guys that fly teathered don't ever use a fixed object to anchor to either, Usually multiple ground points with a team of guys on each one holding
them in place.
pea - 28-11-2006 at 01:08 AM
Teather isn't in any dictionary, do you mean tether? Or maybe slang
Tigger - 28-11-2006 at 09:12 AM
teth·er (tthr) Pronunciation Key
noun.
1. A rope, chain, or similar restraint for holding an animal in place, allowing a short radius in which it can move about.
2. A similar ropelike restraint used as a safety measure, especially for young children and astronauts.
code - 28-11-2006 at 04:25 PM
Looks like Tigger is pulling ahead on the spelling bee this year along with use of grammar too! 
I think I'd have to second Pablo...unless you have other people there to move around with the anchor points, and are in a controlled atmosphere along
with people that have safely done it before I can't see it being really safe to try.
A 3m Blade or Crossfire may be able to pull it off in the right conditions since both of those kites are made for lift. I can't say I'd try anything
else but those two in that size. Even then, conditions have to be perfect.
You have to realize that just because a kite lifts you doesn't mean it'll set you down nicely. Kites like the beamers, bullets, etc. may lift you up
in the right winds relatively quickly and drop you just as fast or faster. So choosing the right kite and the combination of what I stated above
about doing it with people that have done it safely before, would be the only way I'd consider trying IMO.
Pablo - 28-11-2006 at 07:15 PM
Basically, don't try it unless you're with some guys that are already doing it successfully.
And no, I don't really care how bad my speeling is guys, you got the point no problem.
radsailtom - 29-11-2006 at 02:59 PM
dont do it me an my mate did that was wearin a harness and tied myself to a tree in massive winds the kite went up and it pulled me and my mate off
the ground and hanging between the tree and kite and we both weigh 12stone it pulled like a #@%$#!
lowk8me - 29-11-2006 at 03:16 PM
You got it pea. but the wing I'n thinking of using is an old skydiving main chute with about a 5m span and 10 cells. It's very stable and
understanding and good for 160-180kg when it comes to lifting. Rigged to a kite-surfing harness and 4-line bar. Not sure about the length of line from
me to wing/chute maybe about 15-30m fixed. Then a TETHER of about 3m from my harness to a secure stay on the ground. In theory this should give about
30-35m of line from ground to wing, with me about 3m up the line.
Of course I can understand the dangers. I've been flying big kites for years and was kite-jumping off the sand dunes at Maspalomas with a 3m delta way
back in 1994.
'Cause I'm a dad I know what sort of wind will break me and so won't be flying stupid. I've lost enough grey matter to know I should use a helmet etc.
But I do have a wicked beach SKEGNESS LINCOLNSHIRE UK and can read the wind like I can read a wave (did I mention I've been surfing for 20years)
One thing though Pablo why would you use multiple anchor points?
-----Trailblazer or Tailender-----
if u don't ask u don't get
lowk8me - 29-11-2006 at 04:11 PM
Oh yeh...if I'm a Tandem Passenger can I hold on to your waist?
Pablo - 29-11-2006 at 06:52 PM
Some of the problems come in when the strap off the back of the harness gets pulled, the front gets pulled and you get pinched in between, then
there's the stability factor, on a single line if you start to swing at all you lose it. Why? because the second you start to swing the first thing
you'll do is clutch the bar/handles, then the kite swings over faster, you overcompensate and get snapped back the other way, over react again and the
amount you end up swaying increases, this will go on until you get smashed full power into the ground, That's what one of the vids posted was of.
The group of guys holding onto the strap on the ground instead of tying it off help eliminate the chance of getting pinched, you should be able to
drag 2 guys along before getting pinched hard enough to get hurt. Multiple ground points is another huge factor. you don't want a single anchor point
straight upwind of you, but at least 2 points, one on a 45deg angle upwind from you in either direction, so when your facing the kite one will be
behind you to your left, the other behind to the right. This will help to stop the swinging side to side. Those are 2 of the bigger points, but
there's so many that at some time you have to ask yourself, is this really worth the risks, just to hang 2-3m in the air for a bit?
Why not go for a tandem skydive instead, cheaper than the possible hospital bills.
skymeat - 29-11-2006 at 07:17 PM
i've been thinking about this....there are factors that are appearing to me I just thought of. If you have a rope streached between two points in a
straight line, a load applied in-between them will put in excess of 2x the load on EACH anchor. in this case that would be the line attaching to the
ground to harness, and the kite to human. So if the lines between the ground to person to kite we're straight a person would put loads 2-3 times
their body weight on the anchor and the ground. If you want to get off the ground I'd make a bombproof anchor, and teather yourself in long. the
smaller angle between teatherline and kiteline will provide less of a load on the kite and anchor.
lowk8me - 30-11-2006 at 05:32 PM
Pablo, Skymeat...thanks for the input. It has raised 2 or 3 points that I have put alittle thought to..
As pablo points out a single anchor will result in lots of slaps in the face from Mother Earth..
I was thinking 3 or better 5 anchor points upwind arranged in an arc behind the flyer. This would give the more time to compensate as the lateral
speed is slowed by the arc.
The greater the number of anchors the less the load on them individually.
As for pinch and force on line/pilot/harness...
If the tether is as far as the pilot/harness, then the pinch is at the bar, this is your get out clause drop the bar de-power and fall to earth. If
the tether is only 3m it's not that far to go...
The importance of a stable wing and the ability to de-power are also going to play a big part in the control of the flight.
If I try this then it's not going to be in a big wind, I just wanna hang out for abit.
Why do it?...well kiting to me is like surfing it's about feeling that element. Hearing it, reading it..riding it
Stand on a longboard on a 2m wave and that's kinda what I wanna feel.
I know it's going to be abit cheeky to control but I'm not a novice kiter...
and I know not to take the piss out of the elements. I've got enough scars to prove that...I'm just reckon that with abit of thought it can be done
kinda safely...After all we are talking kiting..which isn't tiddly-winks...is it?
Pablo - 30-11-2006 at 06:03 PM
Personally I'd go with what you know for kites, preferrably something lifty, Somehow Blades and Arcs come to mind. Why, they'll lift you in less wind
than a nice freindly stable foil generating less sideloading in the process.
jumping_jim - 1-12-2006 at 10:14 AM
i cant understand why you thing thethered flying would be a safer option than normal kite jumping, its much much more dangerous. and if i was gonna do
it i would use something built for the job, not a parachute or whatever it is your using. when the pros do man lifting (thethered flying) they use
loads of kites stacked together, so that if once breaks they dont go slamming to the floor, they also use much stronger lines, harness, etc. if you
wanna get into the air get a blade and jus go kite jumping, learn to jump properly and you will come down softly most of the time
Pablo - 2-12-2006 at 11:10 AM
Jim, if you read the original post, I'm not sure what proper kite gear this fellow has or if he even has any real flying experience with properly
powered up kites. I don't think he realizes the forces at work here. After re reading things myself I'm a little apprehensive to offer any more advice
other than to buy a good 3m beginner foil.
tether
davidb - 3-12-2006 at 07:42 AM
Tether
I tried this one time when I was new to flying.
I used 12 ft. rope tether to 4 ft. concrete pole.
So up I go 6 ft. off ground when the wind stopped it started just as fast.
My body started to fall but got ripped up as I fell on the lines.
That day I learned what a 360+ was real fast right before impact.
And who needs a helmet who wants to look like a dork after all folks are watching.
Ha Ha. But that day I had some {one} else watching other then those laughing on the ground. As I did not fall on the 4 ft. pole. Learn from those
that went to the school of hard knocks. So do this if you must an make sure that some {one}
is watching
jonesing4wind - 8-12-2006 at 07:18 AM
Man lifting can be done safely. BUT NOT WITH A COMMON FOIL like we use for buggying, boarding etc. The forces on the kite/bridle/flying lines are
WAY beyond what they are engineered to take.
Using people for anchor points gives you an intelligent and adaptive system to help absorb the gusts and follow you around. Not many cement poles
will think "he is going up too high, lets walk downwind a bit to lower him"
Not to encourage experimenting unsafely, but the retired parachute idea actually sounds intriguing. After all, parachutes engineered to take the
forces of deployment at 120 to 180 mph, which would rip any foil kite to shreds. Add to that adaptive anchor points, proper harness (which, btw, not
a kite seat harness) a steady breeze and an experienced pilot and you will most likely walk away. But even with all those caveats addressed, is the
rush really that much better than skimming along in a buggy at 45mph? Maybe for some…. Alas, it is not for me to decide what is an acceptable risk
for others.
Be safe and take your time to think through what you are trying to do.
Seany
lowk8me - 11-12-2006 at 11:59 AM
All points taken..I think the tether idea is going on the backburner for a while, although the idea of people as anchor points is a good 'un, thanks
for that Seany....
I still think that this old chute could be of use though...
Maybe if I can rig it to a 4line bar or maybe fly it of 2 handles, it could be good for scudding or abit of jumping
Any ideas out there....cheers
jumping_jim - 11-12-2006 at 01:42 PM
why not just sell it and get something that is actually made for what you want to do? would seem the sensible thing to do
ExLax - 11-12-2006 at 03:29 PM
Alright, ive heard some stories about a couple seconds of not looking at the kite and the kite was already heading towards the ground. to answer
someone else's earlier question, a half window of wind (flying the kite downward) would shove you into the ground. in this instance, the kite headed
towards the ground giving him more speed moving towards the ground than freefalling and he ended up in a full body cast for a YEAR. I just thought
about this though. if you did it above water, it wouldnt hurt as much if you happened to slip up.
Pablo - 11-12-2006 at 06:09 PM
I think that comment about the kite flying below you was reffering to if you could tether yourself to a bridge or something, more of a theoretical
question.
jonesing4wind - 14-12-2006 at 08:29 PM
I think it is more than hypothetical. I heard a story of someone who suspended himself off a bridge and flew a power kite while hanging. It sounds a
little crazy, but fun. I have often wanted to fly a stunter or small foil while standing on a bridge so I could use 1/2 sphere instead of 1/4 sphere.
Seany
Tigger - 15-12-2006 at 12:46 AM
It takes everyone nearly nine months or longer to rid themselves of their first tethering, what is the fixation of reliving it?
Bladerunner - 14-4-2007 at 09:38 AM
Last weekend a couple of paragliders were out practicing canopy control. The one fellow was hooked to a single line downwind and was riding the
updraft at about 25ft. I couldn't see the end of the line but expect a person or 2 were holding on and he could release at will ?
It looked somewhat safe :puzzled: but this was a paraglider not a kite !
stiffy - 20-8-2007 at 06:14 PM
the whole standing on a bridge thing had never occured to me
thinking about it though it sounds pretty cool
id love to give it a go to see how it turns out haha
flyhigh142 - 21-8-2007 at 07:36 AM
The paraglider pilot more than likely had a release mechanism at his end. We tow hang gliders behing ultralights with a release at each end for
redundancy. Both hang gliders and paragliders do static tows, basically a giant fishing reel that has a tensioning brake and can be let out in gusts.
I'm pretty sure paragliders have tried aero- towing as well, but haven't really kept up with their current progress. The difference, of course, is
that you're facing the opposite direction. Any time you add another bit to the mix, you up the chance of getting seriously hurt. Many pilots have died
trying to tow, often while trying to reinvent the wheel. If someone else has already tried something and failed drastically, listen to them. They may
be able to tell you how to do it safer. Chances are, they've put a lot of thought into their accident, laying there in the ICU. I'm all for having fun
and trying new things, really. I've just lost enough friends to temper my boundless enthusiasm a bit.
BeamerBob - 21-8-2007 at 08:44 AM
The prospect of the half sphere came to me standing on a walking bridge in Chattanooga TN once. I was only flying deltas at the time so the force
issue wasn't a problem. I couldn't figure how to let the lines out and retrieve the kite though. This bridge had an overhead steel structure in the
way. An open sky bridge would eliminate that hurdle. I thought it would be lots of fun to be at the zenith and dive straight down 180 degrees (well
almost). And be able to fly full circles around the wind window without the ground getting in the way. Hey, I know of a rock outcropping near here
that I could stand at the edge of............. Nope, bad idea. I have been pretty good so far to stay out of the sights of natural selection.
Pablo - 21-8-2007 at 09:59 AM
With a Delta, hook the lines up to the kite, wrap the lines up with everything connected and simply drop the kite off the bridge while you unwind the
lines. To retrieve the kite do the opposite, simply start winding up the lines. Bridge will get fairly clean winds under it, rock ledge, not so good.
elkiter - 21-8-2007 at 11:27 AM
And if you're flying a freestyle kite, you can even try doing axels and other tricks.
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Pablo - 21-8-2007 at 04:44 PM
One would hope that he's flying a stunt kite or at least a small foil, wouldn't want to be hanging off a bridge with a powered up foil, just asking
for it.
There was a death a year or so ago in the UK, dad flying his 3.5m foil in off shore winds about 100ft from some tall bluffs, well long story short,
wind got him and his kid watched him get pulled over the edge and out to sea.
khooke - 9-9-2007 at 07:00 PM
I'm not going to offer any other advice here because the other guys have said it all.
What this did remind me of however was seeing an elderly guy turn up at a kite festival on Blackheath Common in London back in the early 90s with an
old military parachute... it was a low wind day and he was able to pull it up into the sky and fly it above his head like a giant foil.... bizarre....