rtz - 25-4-2014 at 09:08 PM
Does anyone have any time flying the smallest sizes of these two kites? Do they have "low end grunt"?
I ride in a small area. I accelerate then have to turn around.
I had a 2.3 Method and I didn't feel it had enough low end power. It wanted to get up and run(about the time I needed to turn around). It just
didn't work for me so I sold it. I have a 2.7 Yak and the few times I have flown it; I get the impression it doesn't have much low end.
When the wind here is blowing 20mph and more; it's great. Those days when it's ~15mph gusting 20mph. It's dismal. Up and down but what kills it is
the lulls. Sure the wind meter says "15" but that's only because it's idling down and coasting during a lull. The wind is really not blowing at that
moment at all(but it's fixing too!).
Despite the advent of those specialized light wind kites of 15m and bigger for the LEI's; no one messes with those kites here. If it's blowing
~8-10mph gusting 12mph; it also has lulls of no wind or nearly none. So you are trying to get by riding at 1-4mph and then having freak gusts of
12mph thrown in.
Light wind kiting is near impossible here in the summer. That's why my 5.5m is my biggest kite. It works surprisingly well too. I've had bigger
kites but the wind is so terrible I was suffering at both ends of the wind scale.
The worst days by far are those gusty storm weather days. Blowing 12-15 with 30mph gusts. I used to ride in that stuff. Last couple of times I
didn't bother. Now if I had a kite with a really big wind range..
I also find it interesting with flying my 1.7m Sting in 30mph with gusts up to 40mph and flying my 5.5 Reactor in extremely light stuff (4mph-8mph);
both kites exhaust me and wear me out the same. I can fly my other kites for 6 or 7 hours and get done and think "now what? I'm ready to do
something now." They don't tire me out at all.
But the biggest and smallest... The smallest I think is from dealing with the wind constantly(mentally draining) and it's fast and darty. The
biggest one is exhausting because I am constantly doing all I can just to keep it in the air and trying to keep going. Wears me out like you wouldn't
believe. I get tired just thinking about flying either of those two kites. And I just got done flying my 2m for about 7 hours straight.
Looks like 2 more days on the 2m...
IMK - 25-4-2014 at 09:36 PM
I often fly in small inland areas where the wind can be unpredictable. In those conditions I chose to fly my Nasa Star 2's (NS2) rather than my FB.
The NS2 handle the gusts and lulls almost effortlessly and I've never felt I needed more speed in small areas. In fact, when I've got short runs with
lots of turns I find them to be ideal. They fly on a bar and are very user friendly. When a gust hits, the power comes on smoothly. When a lull
arrives, they float around very well which I assume is because they are single skin and don't weigh much. Down at the beach I'm going to give my FB
on handles more air time (just for something different). I haven't flown other brand Nasa's but I can highly recommend Steffen Born's NS2s.
rtz - 25-4-2014 at 09:49 PM
How easy is the Star 2 for self launch and landing? What kind of tops speeds have been had with the 1.5m size? Or is the 2.5m a better choice?
John Holgate - 26-4-2014 at 01:01 AM
I've had just over 50kph with both the 1.5m and the 2.5m - but not inland in the paddock. By the time I get to 35kph - 40kph, the fences are coming
up pretty quick! I'd put the 1.5m up in over 20 knots and the 2.5m from 16 to 24 knots or thereabouts. Self launch is the same for a foil. Landings
you can just fly them to the edge of the window, point the bar at them and they just sit there. There's a bit of video of that here: Nasa vid or you can just plant them leading edge down - a couple steps forwards and they're a pile of nylon. A couple steps back and they
relaunch backwards (that's without having separate brakes). Put them on handles and they're the same as a foil. Vid here: Nasa on handles
I know exactly what you mean about the Method. Another kite that I've had which was explosive (comparatively!) was the Century II. The 2.8m Century
II will easily outgun the 4m Method under 15 knots. Doesn't seem right on paper, but the Century II has got bags of power early on while you're still
trying to wind the Method up. Haven't flown the Century in really gusty conditions - I would assume it would require a fair bit of skill but could be
worth a look if that's the sort of thing you're after.
BeamerBob - 26-4-2014 at 08:33 AM
You don't want a vapor for 10-15 gusting over 30. It's power will cause it to shoot forward and collapse at the edge of the window. Pros can fly one
in this but it won't be a fun day. On the other hand, that 2.3 Vapor has loads of power. Brian figures it is a great choice to break the record next
time. Lots of usable power, like rocket engine power in big winds.
DAKITEZ - 26-4-2014 at 11:32 AM
I think you already have the kites you need. You just need to perfect your skills now. I see you have octanes and they are your preferred kites. The
reason for that is the lower aspect gives you that low end grunt. I assume from your avatar you fly on grass? If so the higher aspect kites cause you
trouble because you slow so much in the turns on grass. You come out of the turn slower and the added drag of the grass makes acceleration slower, but
the high aspect kite has shot past the window already. So you end up having to brake the kite to keep it in the window ... this is why they seem to
have no low end power. Now I agree on the method .. not a good kite for anything in my opinion.
I would like to see you flying your 5.5 reactor in 12-15mph and you will have all the low end grunt you need. Basically what I'm getting at is more
kite with more wind will give you all the low end grunt you want even with your octanes. Race kites need room to spread their wings and fly. Short
distances do not work well on racers.
Just my 2 bits 
rtz - 26-4-2014 at 07:36 PM
I had the 2m Octane out today and 30mph+ wind is a bit too much for me. The 1.7 Sting only works when it's blowing 30 and gusting more. In the 20's
and the kite crawls and struggles upwind. I need a 1.8m or 1.9m kite that fits nicely between the Sting and the 2m Octane. Something that is
safer/tamer when the 2m Octane is at the upper end of it's wind range and beyond.
It was a rough day with the 2m Octane. Not enough wind in the lulls for the Sting though. The graph makes it look like more then it was though:
BigMikesKites - 27-4-2014 at 06:49 AM
I think size wise, the Reactor or Vapor have more grunt than either of the mentioned Ozone kites. The vapor extreme...and I am afraid of it when it
gets high wind. I don't usually ride smaller than the 2.8, but it takes more to get me moving on grass than most people. if the wind picks up
beyond my comfort zone, I'm good watching the other crazies out there. I know you have been buggying a long time, so your skills are pretty much
where they are going to be. A step up in size for one kite might be what you seek, the grass is a lot of friction that you have to overcome.
ripsessionkites - 5-5-2014 at 11:25 AM
depends on what you're trying to achieve.
RII 2.2m Tuned - 108.2 Km/h (Drylake) (listed on PTW website)
Vapor 2.3m (video @ .23 sec) 80 Km/h+ (Beach)
if you're after speed Vapor, but if you're looking to tame the gusty winds, Reactor.
both these sizes are unusable without space and nukin winds.
rtz - 5-5-2014 at 09:29 PM
Thanks that's what I was wondering about.