Power Kite Forum

HQ Ignition LEI 5m in the buggy

BeamerBob - 30-4-2014 at 08:29 PM

After my last 2 sessions, I feel like I've been liberated to go fast in the buggy now. You can read my other review of the Montana VIII 8m here in kite reviews and I'm still stoked about the fun miles I have ahead with that kite.

Today, I devoted a higher wind day to trying out the new LEI kite from HQ, the Ignition. The one I flew was a 5m and it's a small and unimposing kite but it packs a punch and is ready to ride fast. Just a note, I've never flown an LEI before so any characteristics that pleasantly surprised me might be common LEI flight characteristics.

My biggest fear when the speeds get above 50 mph is that the kite is going to try to kill me or make me wish it had. :duh: This Ignition is one of the few kites I've been over 60 mph with that didn't have me the least bit worried about the kite folding over at the nose, or darting back behind me to yank me out of the buggy. I feel as one with my Apexx and it never scares me or threatens to harm me, so to get a kite to be a team player at high speeds is like no other feeling.

The first thing I had to do was adjust the power trim strap all the way OUT. I mean, pull the depower cord loose and let the handle touch the clam cleat. I started out from habit of trying to launch with the depower strap pulled in half way. Only after letting out the trim strap, did the bar help control the kite and seem to be in the right position. I set the bridle adjuster to the slow turning position since I never need the kite to turn zippy fast.

I take off upwind from buggy camp and very quickly realize this kite is going to be well behaved and stay pointed where I want it to. I turned around and headed into a broad reach and wow, this kite just feeds on apparent wind. The power response is very instant too. If the wind has a burst, it translates right now to a tug on the harness. I got over 50 on that first run and I'm running out of room due to the North wind angle, so I wonder if this kite is going to drag me sideways instead of let me turn upwind. Nope, I just let the bar out about a foot and the kite starts to flutter as it lines up with it's apparent wind and I make a smooth turn to upwind with no tire sliding at all. Wow, so far so good. I make several more laps and one where the power really started to pull hard, I got to 60.1 mph. The thing is, I wasn't fearing for my life, but wishing for more wind to really build some speed. I think winds might've gotten into the upper 20s but not sure.

This kite has a huge high wind range. I'm not sure what the signs will be when I've overextended me or the kite, but I know I wasn't close today. For the first time ever, I'm not going to be timid when the forecast is calling for winds at 35 or 40 mph and I'm predicting the next time I can get in winds like that, this kite will get me an updated personal best top speed.

John Holgate - 1-5-2014 at 12:13 AM

Nice review, Bob. I suspect LEI's might be a much better buggy kite than most of us probably think. I've been out flying with Rob Lukin - me with a 5m Frenzy and him with a 4m Airush LEI - in 14 knots, he left me for dead with it. And I've seen him fly it in over 30 knots with no dramas - so yeah, methinks they have a big wind range! I'd be keen on your take on launching and landing and how you go about it too.

BeamerBob - 1-5-2014 at 06:52 AM

John, Brian was there with me and he just stood it up on the edge of the window and I flew it away. Very drama free. After having an assisted launch, I'm certain I could stake the chicken loop and go stand the kite up at the edge and it would sit there while I go hook in. I guess I could put a small sandbag on the tip on the ground but I'm not sure it would be necessary. I imagine landing would just be the reverse. For my lakebed surface I'll always land and launch from a tarp that is secured on the ground but no one else would have that issue.

Oh, and pumping up that small kite was a 30 second affair.;) Barely got started and it was full.

RedSky - 1-5-2014 at 07:11 AM

Great review Bob. :thumbup:

Told you so. No need to ride downwind to bleed off speed with an LEI. ;)

The Ignition looks similar to the delta winged Fone Bandit with its swept back wings.
Please tell me you did not ride with the depower trimmed all the way out? I want to ring your neck. :D

You have the launch and land technique sussed. Using the tarp is a great idea.

I state the following so I can look back one day in the not so distant future and say...I told you so. ;)
Ivanpah + 7m LEI in 40knts = New world record. Goes for Brain too. :)






erratic winds - 1-5-2014 at 07:31 AM

Glad to hear the writeup, Bob.

I think a lot of buggiers just don't have any experience with LEI's, so they don't know how docile they can be in high winds!

I know every time a 5m LEI pops up for sale on here I recommend it as a buggy engine!

Keep going fast!

BeamerBob - 1-5-2014 at 08:14 AM

You are right. Yesterday was the first one I had ever flown. I'm still astounded at the massive depower range available in such a short throw. I'm wondering if more is better and the 7m could get me past 70 in less wind.

USA_Eli_A - 1-5-2014 at 09:02 AM

Nice Review Bobby!:thumbup:

erratic winds - 1-5-2014 at 09:13 AM

Bob- more is always better! my last time in a buggy I flew my 15m slingshot LEI. waaaaay too much fun for the small area.

cheezycheese - 1-5-2014 at 09:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
Great review Bob. :thumbup:

No need to ride downwind to bleed off speed with an LEI.



Why not...?

PHREERIDER - 1-5-2014 at 10:03 AM

good one bob , when i take out my 6m c-kite and a gale is at hand , not much really comforts me, until few laps to reach some kind of clarity about the moment, BUT ALWAYS TIMID to some degree at the start it protects me , so i think

BeamerBob - 1-5-2014 at 10:20 AM

Redsky, help me along on the depower settings! I'm not sure I have a world record in my wheelhouse, but I'm confident I can raise my pb now. I just need the wind to blow again on a day I can ride. The thing with the LEI is that wind direction is less critical to go fast since I don't need to allow for runout room. I can light it up heading straight towards the shore.

Cheezy, with most kites that I have flown that I've flown overpowered either accidentally or on purpose, I've learned that if the kite won't let me turn upwind to slow down, I can turn downwind to the point the kite is barely flying and that will let me slow down 20-30 mph so I can then turn around. With the LEI, you just let the bar out and the kite quits pulling. I could be running 55 and powered up and just let the bar out and turn upwind with no drama or sliding of tires.

Phree, being timid and listening to that inner voice is just smart. I always like to make a few test runs to get settled and comfortable with the conditions. Oddly, many times my fastest run of the day is the first one after leaving camp even if it wasn't my intention.

cheezycheese - 1-5-2014 at 10:53 AM

Thanks Bob...

RedSky - 1-5-2014 at 02:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
The thing with the LEI is that wind direction is less critical to go fast since I don't need to allow for runout room. I can light it up heading straight towards the shore.


Exactly. I push my bug to within a few feet of the really rough stuff at high speed (every inch counts right?) because I know that as soon as the bar is sheeted out, I can turn upwind without the kite pulling me back down.

Keep an eye on the kite when you do this however as you're bound to lose a fair chunk of steering response at full depower with the added risk of it going to ground if you're preoccupied. Nothing to worry about though, just power her up ever so slightly to regain your steering or better still, grab the end of the float to pull her back up.

I would have trimmed for full power just before your downwind turn. You'll get up to speed much sooner. Just make sure your feet are properly planted on the pegs. ;)
I'm sure you could have added a few mph to that max speed but this is your first go with an LEI and you were right to be cautious..... with your 60mph!! :o

Wish I could have been there with you. :thumbup:





Purely Luck - 1-5-2014 at 02:19 PM

Quote:

Glad to hear the writeup, Bob.

I think a lot of buggiers just don't have any experience with LEI's, so they don't know how docile they can be in high winds!

I know every time a 5m LEI pops up for sale on here I recommend it as a buggy engine!

Keep going fast!


Realwatersports is getting rid of some brand new 2011 Best Taboo 5.5m kites for $300 KO. Must be overproduction or something. Steal of a deal.

I just picked one up 2 days ago. (Will be in the mail by the 7th!) :D

And I agree with you guys above. I have been using my Kahoonas more and more for buggying over my apex.

The depower and stability they have is worth the pump up time.

BeamerBob - 1-5-2014 at 02:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
The thing with the LEI is that wind direction is less critical to go fast since I don't need to allow for runout room. I can light it up heading straight towards the shore.


Exactly. I push my bug to within a few feet of the really rough stuff at high speed (every inch counts right?) because I know that as soon as the bar is sheeted out, I can turn upwind without the kite pulling me back down.

Keep an eye on the kite when you do this however as you're bound to lose a fair chunk of steering response at full depower with the added risk of it going to ground if you're preoccupied. Nothing to worry about though, just power her up ever so slightly to regain your steering or better still, grab the end of the float to pull her back up.

I would have trimmed for full power just before your downwind turn. You'll get up to speed much sooner. Just make sure your feet are properly planted on the pegs. ;)
I'm sure you could have added a few mph to that max speed but this is your first go with an LEI and you were right to be cautious..... with your 60mph!! :o

Wish I could have been there with you. :thumbup:

Maybe I'm saying it wrong. I didn't have the depower trimmed at all. The center lines were as long as I could make them. Oddly, many times I was running with the bar pulled in completely as well. I'll look at hookup options sometime when I can take the kite out without the wind blowing it around.

RedSky - 1-5-2014 at 03:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
The thing with the LEI is that wind direction is less critical to go fast since I don't need to allow for runout room. I can light it up heading straight towards the shore.


Exactly. I push my bug to within a few feet of the really rough stuff at high speed (every inch counts right?) because I know that as soon as the bar is sheeted out, I can turn upwind without the kite pulling me back down.

Keep an eye on the kite when you do this however as you're bound to lose a fair chunk of steering response at full depower with the added risk of it going to ground if you're preoccupied. Nothing to worry about though, just power her up ever so slightly to regain your steering or better still, grab the end of the float to pull her back up.

I would have trimmed for full power just before your downwind turn. You'll get up to speed much sooner. Just make sure your feet are properly planted on the pegs. ;)
I'm sure you could have added a few mph to that max speed but this is your first go with an LEI and you were right to be cautious..... with your 60mph!! :o

Wish I could have been there with you. :thumbup:

Maybe I'm saying it wrong. I didn't have the depower trimmed at all. The center lines were as long as I could make them. Oddly, many times I was running with the bar pulled in completely as well. I'll look at hookup options sometime when I can take the kite out without the wind blowing it around.


Well don't rub it in Bob. So you got to 60mph while underpowered! :spin:

BeamerBob - 1-5-2014 at 07:05 PM

Well I don't know how else to say it but with the strap let all the way out, I felt like I had it set to be fully powered. At least it would've been on every other type depower I've flown. I'm definitely ready for more wind so this kite can stretch it's wings.

RedSky - 2-5-2014 at 05:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
Well I don't know how else to say it but with the strap let all the way out, I felt like I had it set to be fully powered. At least it would've been on every other type depower I've flown. I'm definitely ready for more wind so this kite can stretch it's wings.


Yes sorry. I read your original post wrong. I thought you had trimmed for less power. What I meant was that the kite was underpowered if the bar was pulled all the way in. So yes, that kite could definitely use much more wind, way more in fact.

60mph must be routine for you now. You seem to be passing it on a regular basis. I enjoy reading about your speed runs.

BeamerBob - 2-5-2014 at 07:29 AM

Thanks Redsky. Having the fortune of getting to ride here at Ivanpah, I feel an obligation to share the experience with those that would love to have it in their backyard. I must say your speeds are a big motivation for me. :o Historically, I can't say 60 mph has ever been routine, but in the last week I've done it at least 4 times. It doesn't feel scary anymore so I can say it's starting to only feel fast but not like things are going to go to pieces any second. Yes, this kite has much more potential waiting to be tapped.

BeamerBob - 2-5-2014 at 08:14 AM

Phreerider, I reread my original post and I now further understand your reference to "timid". What I meant is before, I would hesitate to even go ride if I didn't have confidence I had a kite I could control in the forecast winds. Now I feel confident enough to go but all the mental safeties will be in place when I'm preparing to launch and ride.

Purely Luck - 2-5-2014 at 08:28 AM

What kind of buggies do you guys ride to hit 60 mph? Are they custom built? ApeXX Buggy?

BeamerBob - 2-5-2014 at 09:00 AM

I have an Apexx. I bought it from Ozzy (Jeroen Potters) from Netherlands. Fast Arie (Arjen Van der Tol) used my (Ozzy's) buggy to set the previous buggy speed record. There are several finely made, well designed buggies that would be comfortable and safe to go fast in. The important things are that the buggy is properly balanced/tuned for the rider and the rider fits snugly and securely in the buggy.

I'll point out that riding on a dry lake bed is a different experience than riding on a beach or grass. Before riding at Ivanpah, my personal best speed was just over 35 mph at Jekyll Island at a JIBE event. I'll also point out that several guys have been similar speeds to me in Flexifoil buggies. Dave Roberts and Craig Sparkes come to mind. Here is a link to the speed records. It shows where the speeds were set and how fast.

Speed Records

I just realized this pic is the same as my profile pic, but it lets you see the buggy better.
IMG_8976 (2) by Musekiter, on Flickr

Demoknight - 2-5-2014 at 10:34 AM

I have been close to 40mph on my PL Comp XR+. I didn't have my gps turned on at the time, but when I turned it on and tried again, I never felt I went near as fast and I was still doing 34 mph on Montrose beach here in Chicago. It was a rough beach that day and I was jumping little sand dunes and holding on for dear life with my free hand while steering the Charger fully lit.

Cheddarhead - 2-5-2014 at 02:36 PM

Bobby, did you have to redo the front fork on your Apexx to work with your Landseglers?

BeamerBob - 2-5-2014 at 02:43 PM

XXtreme makes extender plates to place an axle mounting hole in the right place and maintain proper geometry. I just had to bolt them on and change over to a downtube intended for bigfoot tires and adjust the rear axle height and it felt just the same as barrows but much better. Even the footpegs were right where I was used to.