Power Kite Forum

Control bar setup

smug stacy - 5-5-2014 at 11:53 PM

I seem to be having interesting control bar issues with my 2014 Access 10m.

OK - so it's my understanding that back on the bar (pulling it towards my body) is supposed to result in more power and faster turning. Pushing the bar away from my body (upwards) is supposed to result in less power and slower turning.

For some reason, my kite seems to be doing the complete opposite as far as power is concerned. If I pull the bar all the way towards me, it turns faster --- but tends to fall backwards and decrease altitude. If I move the bar to fully depowered (all the way away from me), I get slower steering.... but a massive boost in power and the kite flies higher in the sky.

I've already triple checked my lines to make sure everything is connected properly and it is. I'm guessing this may need to adjust the trim somewhere?

I'm starting to get used to it though. I'll dive it into the power, get rolling, then lean back and push the bar out to speed up.... but it has an annoying habit of eventually moving out of the power since it wants to keep going forward. I think I'd rather just get it set up correctly LOL.

BeamerBob - 6-5-2014 at 12:05 AM

You seem to be set up correctly but you just aren't well powered enough or moving fast enough to get the kite working like it is designed to. I'm not sure what you are rolling on but as the wind increases and/or your speed increases, the kite will start to behave like you expect. Think of it like a gymkhana racer expecting his rear brake to have the same effect at 15 mph as it does when he is fully lit. When your kite is flying in light winds and you pull the bar in, it's like putting the brakes on instead of making more power by catching more wind.

elnica - 6-5-2014 at 06:23 AM

Pulling in the bar creates a surge of power instantly but also slows the kite down. Sheeting out decreases the projected area but also allows the kite to fly faster and the faster you go the more apparent wind and power. Sometimes when I am overpowered going too fast and sheeting out doesn't help (decreasing the projected area), I pull the bar in to slow the kite down. That's on water though, I wouldn't want to be overpowered on land.

PHREERIDER - 6-5-2014 at 06:57 AM

when the kite is depowered (bar out) it should move to the edge of the window. as soon as you are moving after surge of power , pull in til you find the sweet spot for current speed of travel.

trim the kite in about half and keep adjusting it in until theres no back stall...you want the agile and speedy with solid power stroke as bar is pulled in.

Chrisz - 6-5-2014 at 07:11 AM

How much wind are you in, what knot are you using on the power lines and where do you have the trim strap? It sounds like you are pulling the bar too far in for how you have the knots tied and the trim strap pulled, you will need to adjust for the wind conditions each time depending on where you want the bar to be when you hit that sweet spot.

Down load the manual off the HQ website that will explain fine tuning.

Bladerunner - 6-5-2014 at 11:33 AM

The term depower causes so much trouble.

Try and not think about depower but front line / back line input. + Angle of Attack. + Speed = Power.

That front line / back line input effects the kite a bit differently depending on the wind speed and if you are in motion as well or not.

With front line input your kite will want to travel fast through the window creating power boost during the speed. Speed = Power . Once it has hit the edge it will fly farther into the window and be spilling the most wind possible due to AOA ( hand flat out the car window ) . Back line tension is required to influence your turn.

With back line - brake input your kite will not travel through the window as fast. This lower speed of travel will produce less power. Once the kite is at the edge of the window it will sit back a bit on the back lines. This AOA catches some of the wind and creates more lift / pull. ( Hand tipped a bit up out the car window ) . When in motion with the kite at the edge pulling in the bar makes for a noticeable power boost . That is how it got the name but that only applies properly in motion with proper winds.

It sounds like you are feeling things correctly and learning to adjust. :cool:



RedSky - 6-5-2014 at 12:41 PM

I agree with all the comments above. Trim for more depower to avoid backstall in low wind.

Cheddarhead - 6-5-2014 at 06:42 PM

If your riding on thick grass or a slow surface like I am in the summer, you need a lot of power to keep rolling to make your kite work like it should. Sounds exactly what I encounter with my buggy on soft grass. Rolling resistance is so great that the rider always wants to slow down. It's hard to build apparent wind with that senario if not properly powered.

smug stacy - 6-5-2014 at 07:30 PM

Quote:

You seem to be set up correctly but you just aren't well powered enough or moving fast enough to get the kite working like it is designed to. I'm not sure what you are rolling on but as the wind increases and/or your speed increases, the kite will start to behave like you expect. Think of it like a gymkhana racer expecting his rear brake to have the same effect at 15 mph as it does when he is fully lit. When your kite is flying in light winds and you pull the bar in, it's like putting the brakes on instead of making more power by catching more wind.


I'm on a mountainboard BeamerBob. Your reply is a load off my mind as far as being worried that I was not set up correctly. I thought I was just building up bad habits working with a kludgy setup.
I'm able to get moving pretty quickly but also do a whole lot of nursing the kite back into the power

From putting together you, PHREEDIDER's and Elnica's posts sounds like I just need to get into the habit of pulling in the bar after that first boost.

Quote:

Pulling in the bar creates a surge of power instantly but also slows the kite down. Sheeting out decreases the projected area but also allows the kite to fly faster and the faster you go the more apparent wind and power. Sometimes when I am overpowered going too fast and sheeting out doesn't help (decreasing the projected area), I pull the bar in to slow the kite down. That's on water though, I wouldn't want to be overpowered on land.


That further confirms the "pull the bar towards the body once moving" part. When I have the bar all the way out in the beginning, I keep expecting that energy to be constant.

Quote:

when the kite is depowered (bar out) it should move to the edge of the window. as soon as you are moving after surge of power , pull in til you find the sweet spot for current speed of travel.

trim the kite in about half and keep adjusting it in until theres no back stall...you want the agile and speedy with solid power stroke as bar is pulled in.


That was precisely what was happening. I kept having to hard steer it back into the power whenever it would drift too far into the edge, and what was really the only time I would pull it in.
We're getting some decent winds tomorrow (crossing fingers) so I look forward to trying this out.

Quote:

How much wind are you in, what knot are you using on the power lines and where do you have the trim strap? It sounds like you are pulling the bar too far in for how you have the knots tied and the trim strap pulled, you will need to adjust for the wind conditions each time depending on where you want the bar to be when you hit that sweet spot.

Down load the manual off the HQ website that will explain fine tuning.


Chrisz, I typically don't leave the house unless it's around 10 knots or more. With my Ozone access, I'm using the basic setup and haven't changed any of the knots to alternate positions yet. The trim strap is fully out (never really used it yet either).
I have the Ozone manual, but will also download the HQ one too.

Quote:

The term depower causes so much trouble.

Try and not think about depower but front line / back line input. + Angle of Attack. + Speed = Power.

That front line / back line input effects the kite a bit differently depending on the wind speed and if you are in motion as well or not.

With front line input your kite will want to travel fast through the window creating power boost during the speed. Speed = Power . Once it has hit the edge it will fly farther into the window and be spilling the most wind possible due to AOA ( hand flat out the car window ) . Back line tension is required to influence your turn.

With back line - brake input your kite will not travel through the window as fast. This lower speed of travel will produce less power. Once the kite is at the edge of the window it will sit back a bit on the back lines. This AOA catches some of the wind and creates more lift / pull. ( Hand tipped a bit up out the car window ) . When in motion with the kite at the edge pulling in the bar makes for a noticeable power boost . That is how it got the name but that only applies properly in motion with proper winds.

It sounds like you are feeling things correctly and learning to adjust. :cool:


That's very encouraging to hear Bladerunner. Also, your explanation of AOA reflects what I've been experiencing out in the field.

Quote:

If your riding on thick grass or a slow surface like I am in the summer, you need a lot of power to keep rolling to make your kite work like it should. Sounds exactly what I encounter with my buggy on soft grass. Rolling resistance is so great that the rider always wants to slow down. It's hard to build apparent wind with that senario if not properly powered.


Cheddarhead, I know the feeling. Actually, the best (biggest) field I've found so far (I'm in Nashville Tennessee) is a giant abandoned airfield East of the city - but the grass is so thick and inconsistently cut that it's not worth it. It's not like smooth soccer field grass where you take off like a rocket. More like "cut with a tractor" cow pasture kind of stuff where you just sorta static fly til it hits the power, then you immediately fall over when the board doesn't decide to roll.
The field I use more often is a giant place close to downtown that has 9 adjacent soccer and football fields. Very smooth frequently trimmed grass.

alieen - 4-12-2014 at 12:01 AM

With front line input your kite will want to travel fast through the window creating power boost during the speed. Speed = Power . Once it has hit the edge it will fly farther into the window and be spilling the most wind possible due to AOA ( hand flat out the car window ) .

http://pass4-sure.me

robinsonpr - 4-12-2014 at 01:27 AM

I notice you said you have the trim all the way out. I made the same mistake when first flying my Venom. Having it set like that will give you maximum "potential" power and also maximum backstall when pulling the bar in. Also no room to let it out if you need to though.

I would try it trimmed half way in as Phreerider suggests and then fine tune from there! Of course it all depends on the winds but starting from half way in will give you room to adjust either way.

I'm learning to board too and I had my first eureka moment when I was nicely powered and had my kite parked in one position. Like this pulling the bar in (a little!) did noticeably speed me up and pushing out slightly dropped the power. that has only happened once, but once is enough to realise how it should feel! Good luck!

Bladerunner - 4-12-2014 at 03:29 PM

Trim setting is a bit of a personal choice.

I start out trimmed in no matter the wind speed. We often have light wind so I only trim out about 20%. I fly the kite fast through the window on the front lines and then pull in as I approach the edge to influence turning + not over fly.

In winds that are stronger I usually trim out to 50% or so. I only trim out fully when I am going to jump. I trim back in if I feel overpowered.

Most folks I know seem to open the strap full as soon as the wind is decent.

Now that you are a little more clear play with the trim strap and see what works for you. Robin sounds like he experienced the true feeling of depower. It only really happens like you would expect when you are at speed with the kite at the edge or jumping. Then when you pull in the bar you really feel the power come on. The kite drops back a bit in the window and getting upwind is a bit harder if it is overhead it gives you boost. Like tipping the back of your hand out the car window.

EddyP - 5-2-2015 at 09:33 AM

I use a 7m bullet, which was set-up by a mate of mine and often needs adjusting itself, otherwise it's just uncomfortable. Sounds similar to yours; it's set-up correctly but environment can have a massive effect on how your kite moves.