Power Kite Forum - Please help me pick Dad's next kite

Please help me pick Dad's next kite

underthewind - 22-6-2014 at 02:22 PM

Hello, my dad and I got into kite a couple years ago. Mostly we just had crappy walmart 2 line kites. They were always trouble for us.
He got a snapshot 1.4 and instantly fell in love with foils. He's been wanting a Spiderkite Smithi but could never get one. As he put it, "life always got in the way".
He gave me the snapshot and now he doesn't have a kite. Mom and I are trying to get him another foil, but the smithi is out of the budget. We can't come right out and ask him too many questions because we want it to be a suprise.
I was hoping you guys could offer some suggestions on other makes and models to look for that would be more budget friendly. We are hoping to find something for under 175 (including handles and lines), used would be fine.
He doesn't plan on doing any boarding or buggying. He's not wanting to do hard core Rev style flying, but he wants to be able to do the following : fly sideways, fly upside down, hover, make sharp turns.
Ones I've caught him looking at lately :
PDK Soulfly 3.3 or 4.4 he likes the 4.4 better
will these do what he wants them to do?
we found a used new tech ballistic 3.6, what do you guys think of that one for what he wants to do?
What other models in that size and price range should we look into?
Thanks everyone.

riffclown - 22-6-2014 at 02:33 PM

If he liked the Snapshot and only want to static fly, the Snapshot 2.5 is 4 line ready and can be found new for around $150.. As for the other kites you've mentioned, ff you are using the Snapshot 1.4 as your gauge for size, you might get a huge surprise if you pick up a Soulfly or similar traction kite. The Sport (or Stunt) kites like the Snapshot, Symphony and others are a measure of width.. The Powerkites are measured in Square Meters.. My Symphony 2.2 is quite a bit smaller than my 2.0M Crossfire and the 2.0M Crossfire is larger and still more powerful than the Snapshot 2.5 that I used to own..

I agree with the suggestion that was made in the other thread.. Seek out some local flyers and try a few kites.. My 4M Crossfire was traded to me be a person that underestimated the difference between the Sport and Power foils.. He was much happier with the Snapshot 2.5 that I traded him.

Here's a 2M Crossfire on top of a 4M Crossfire and then for perspective the Symphony 2.2 on top of the same 4M..

Not trying to scare you away. Just trying to make sure you're aware of the big difference in kite sizes when it comes to Sport vs Power.. Wouldn't want an oversized kite to ruin your Father's experience.

A 3M kite is a great first traction kite but please pay attention to the word TRACTION.. It's going to have some pull.. Given your stated intent, a 2M Hornet would be good but foils that fly upside down well are few and far between. The Crosskite Quattro might be closer to your price point. I haven't flown them but Big Mike did a video review and compared them to the Hornet..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ8ON4mMwqk

John Holgate - 22-6-2014 at 04:01 PM

I had a 2.8m PKD Century Soulfly - I reckon it had twice the power of my 3m Ozone Flow (which had many more times the power of what your Dad's previously been flying). I think something a bit smaller for static flying.

Even a 2m Peter lynn Hornet/Ozone Flow or Octane/HQ Beamer/Zebra Checka or Z1/Flexifoil Sting or Rage/ PKD Buster would provide much, much more power than the Snapshot and be extremely enjoyable to static fly. I certainly wouldn't go bigger than 3m for a recreational power kite to static fly. Having said that, once you're hooked on power kite flying, you tend to end up with lots of different size kites!

I went from a 1.4m Snapshot to a 2.5m Ozone Imp Quattro and the difference in power was jaw dropping (and the Quattro is about as tame as they get (and I still fly it a bit).

I would look for a 2 - 2.5m in any of the kites I listed. They'll be (relatively) small, fast and heaps of fun with enough pull to get you into trouble if you don't respect them!

underthewind - 22-6-2014 at 08:12 PM

Wow,
Thank you so much riffclown and Mr. Holgate. I don't think he had any idea of the size difference. When ever he'd mention kite sizes, he'd remind me that our snapshot was a 1.4, so I'm pretty sure he thought they measured them the same.
I remember him looking into the snapshot 2.5 last year, but by the time you buy the handles and extra lines, you could almost buy a smithi.
I'm glad I asked you guys, we would have got him something WAY too big.
He's a big guy, but still

underthewind - 22-6-2014 at 08:18 PM

ps. I appreciate the suggestion to check out a local club. But the closest one we know of is the one that flies at maumee bay and that's an hour and a half away and we usually don't have the gas to go that far.

John Holgate - 22-6-2014 at 10:17 PM

Just to give you a very rough idea of power, watch the first minute or two of this...and maybe the end bit: Too much fun on 13th Beach

This was static flying (and buggying) with a 2m HQ Beamer in 15-20 knots. Plenty of power to pull me through the sand and get the buggy going. Ditto with the 3m Ozone Flow. Sand is nice and easy to slide on - grass tends to be grabby and inconsistent so I generally don't static fly with this much power on grass as it's too hard on ankles.

pyro22487 - 22-6-2014 at 10:23 PM

Hi a few things to concider is where you live how big you are and what you eventually want to do. I fully agree with Holgate I love my flows gentle kites easy to learn on and in high winds still a great kite even for beginners. I don't recommend the Quattro for the simple fact you Outgrow it real quick and then you never fly it again unless you are teaching someone. So I recommend the

Ozone, flow
Pkd, buster soulfly
Peterlynn, hornet
Pansh, Flux

All are good kites for beginners Pansh is going to be a fairly cheap but though it's quality is still good it isn't going to be as good as the others. Absolutely no disrespect to the Pansh owners though still a great kite.

Also be carful and we recommend starting on a 2-3 just as John said. Wear a helmet too we can't stress this enough. Safety first good luck and happy winds.

underthewind - 22-6-2014 at 10:54 PM

Mr. Holgate. He's definitely not going to get ME to fly one of those :o
I think he better stick with the stunt foils and not get a power one

I know he said the 1.4 snapshot didn't pull hard enough unless the wind was stupid windy. But I'm sure he didn't want to be pulled THAT hard.
We like to fly at the park . Wearing a helmet would attract the wrong kind of attention there.

Our wind here is awful, usually its really sporadic, we will have wind, then by the time you get the kite unpacked, there's no more wind.
Or you have wind and there's a LOT of it. We don't get to fly as much as we want to for that reason.
How big, I'm 5'1 and 115 pounds, so like I said, I will NOT be flying one of those, LOL.
I just asked mom, and she said dad is 6'2 and about 275 pounds.

I can't thank you guys enough for all the advice, especially for not letting us get me dad killed!!!!

underthewind - 22-6-2014 at 11:04 PM

he drives mom nuts some times, he is SO hard to shop for :mad:

He hates the looks of the flux and the 2.5 snapshot, he doesn't like the color on the soulfly, he likes the ozone and the hornet, but they cost more than the smithi.

pyro22487 - 22-6-2014 at 11:12 PM

You find out that sometimes it isn't how the kite looks but how it flies. I don't like certain kites colors but the kite itself is a amazing kite. So no actual power kite then. Where abouts do you live a general area would be nice.
I googled your maumee and found ohio. Gusty winds are a problem. I live in Oklahoma on average for every 10 mph of wind we have 5 extra mile an hour gusts. So in 10 we get 15 gusts and in 20 winds we get 30 gusts so it gets interesting sometimes.

Always gear your kite for the gust sometimes we sit in our buggies out in the field just flying a kite waiting for that gust to get moving again.

underthewind - 22-6-2014 at 11:51 PM

He's like that about some things. Like some things Mom says are really ugly, Dad says that if you look at the way its designed or the way it performs it becomes beautiful.
He talks about that darn spider kite, he would keep going on about cell valves like I know what that means :dunno:
He said watching the videos of it that it would be beautiful no matter what pattern or color it had. But I'm sure that no matter how it flew , if he didn't like the looks, he wouldn't be happy with it. I also know though, that no matter how good it looked, he wouldn't be happy it it didn't fly well.
If it was ANYTHING else, I know what he'd do, he'd have given up on the smithi a LONG time ago, got the best performance he could afford, then he'd paint it. He modifies EVERYTHING. Mom says he can't leave ANYTHING alone. :rolleyes:

bobalooie57 - 23-6-2014 at 06:29 AM

I don't know if you have considered the NPW(NASA Para Wing). Being a single skin kite it will fly earlier(less wind) and pull as hard or harder than a similar sized foil. They are not so lifty, and tend to be well mannered in gusty winds. Not so much cloth used, so often half the cost of a foil of the same size. If you get Susan (kitemaker4 here on the forum) to make one for you, she can do most any color scheme you like.

On the subject of a helmet, if you are surprised by a gust, and get pulled off your feet and onto your head, you won't care what kind of attention you attract. I doubt if anyone would say anything, but if they do you can always say that you are acting out of an abundance of caution.

Bladerunner - 23-6-2014 at 07:14 AM

BigMikesKites still has one Skydog 2.6 on sale

http://www.bigmikeskites.com/WebPages/SaleItems.html

It is too bad your Dad doesn't like the look of the Buster Soulfly. It is about the best deal for a new quality kite I can see.

indigo_wolf - 23-6-2014 at 09:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by underthewind

I was hoping you guys could offer some suggestions on other makes and models to look for that would be more budget friendly. We are hoping to find something for under 175 (including handles and lines), used would be fine.
He doesn't plan on doing any boarding or buggying. He's not wanting to do hard core Rev style flying, but he wants to be able to do the following : fly sideways, fly upside down, hover, make sharp turns.

Quote: Originally posted by underthewind

He talks about that darn spider kite, he would keep going on about cell valves like I know what that means :dunno:

Stop.... Rewind....

You got a lot of suggestions for good starter kites and/or follow-up to the Snapshot, but they're progrably not going to be a good match for what your father is after.

Some additional info, especially pertaining to how strange/unique the Smithi is might put things into perspetive....

This is a Spiderkites Smithi

Wing area size = 1.5 sq. meters.

When most foils fly, the air inlets inflate the canopy. As the cell pressure causes the foil to get more rigid (relatively speaking), the handling gets crisper and the turns get more precise.

When the foil loses cell pressure a lot of that is lost and the kite starts handling with a lot less precision. The Smithi has one way valves on the air inlets so that when the kite is stalled/hovering or flying backwards, internal cell pressure is retained and the kite still remains fairly well behaved and precise. This is often referred to as a closed-cell foil. The next smallest closed cell foil is an HQ Hydra which is more expensive and a three-line kite too.

The next piece of weirdness is that the Smithi's bridle is tuned for fine control and even uses pulleys in the bridle to help achieve that goal.

It's important to note that I don't think any other kite in this size/price range does this.

Christoph Fokken, the designer of the kite, basically put together a flying platypus.

Don't mean to be a wet blanket.... just want you to know where most foils are going to fall in terms of your father's wishlist of capabilities listed in the original post.

ATB,
Sam

underthewind - 23-6-2014 at 10:28 AM

Thanks again everyone.
I was talking to Mom, she said that he did like the pattern on the soul fly because of all the white he could draw on, but that he didn't like the colors except for the orange one... We are NOT getting him a 4.4 sqm kite:o
Bobalooie, GREAT name, my dad calls our dog that sometimes. His name is Louis. Thank you but I know Dad would not be happy with a single line unless it was a Rok.
Bladerunner, I wish I could say I liked your name, but if my dad watches that movie ONE more time :mad:

He always watches OLD movies. The skydog on sale at Mikes is more than we have to spend and its almost as much as the smithi.
Mr Wolf,
Thank you again for a LOT of important info. I didn't know the smithi was that small. I thought it was a 2.4 . It doesn't look much bigger than my snapshot 1.4.
All the "technology" you mentioned must be why he was always going on about how beautiful it would be no matter what it looked like.
I think a wet blanket is a good thing right now to cool us offer before we get burned by making a poor choice mom's words not mine, I didn't understand the wet blanket thing so had to ask her :P)
We almost went for a couple deals that may or may NOT have made him happy. someone offered us a 3m quad line (don't know the brand) without lines or handles for 35 plus shipping. We almost got it. I'm glad I read this post first. Thank you again

Bladerunner - 23-6-2014 at 02:20 PM

If your Dad likes the idea of tuning his kites then the Pansh Flux may be one to consider. Here is a link.

http://www.panshkite.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&...

They are not exactly top quality but pretty well made. Often they need to be tuned to fly right. By tuned I mean simply adjusting the fly lines to equal length and then adding or removing a bit of brake line tension.

P.S. I have never watched the movie Bladerunner. When I took on my name the Kite Runner was a book I had just read and I like to ride my Coyote Rollerblades most.

BigMikesKites - 23-6-2014 at 03:15 PM

Yeah, the skydog 2.6 is a pretty nice kite. I got the demo available that was flown in the video review.
Videos on this page http://www.bigmikeskites.com/SkyDog/PowerFoil/Powerfoil-Vide...

underthewind - 23-6-2014 at 06:10 PM

Thanks everybody, mom and I came to a decision.
Dad walked by while I was watching a video of riffclowns symphony 2.2. Dad was amazed by the things that riffclown was doing with the kite.
Riff has graciously offered to help us get a symphony set up as quad.
It should be perfect, Dad LOVES to modify things.
We wound up ordering a neon yellow HQ symphony 2.2 pro. We'll have to get another line set and he will have to make some handles. But I know him. We could have bought him a kite that was complete and cost a bajillion dollars and there would be something he would find to change. I'm willing to be the first thing he would do is make new handles.
So, Mom and I figured, he will have a bigger kite that will give him the pull he wanted, making it more fun than the snapshot I have, and then he can convert it to 4 line.
When he first saw the video, he didnt say anything about the kite, just raved about the pilot.
Then he came back later and wanted to see the video again. He said he loved it. I said " I though you wanted something brighter like orange or green or yellow. And he said "I don't care what it looks like, look at the way that thing flies"
Made me think about what pyro said.
Thanks again everybody :]
PS Bladerunner said " I have never watched the movie Bladerunner"
Odessa says "DON'T"

hiaguy - 23-6-2014 at 06:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by underthewind

How big, I'm 5'1 and 115 pounds, so like I said, I will NOT be flying one of those, LOL.

Don't think that these kites are only for big guys. My son started flying them at age 11, 5'1 and 110 pounds and has learned to pick the right kite for the wind conditions, and loves to fly.

For your dad though? As a dad, my first thought would be: wow, my kids/family thought enough to get me a kite - how cool is that!
Then, if you show an interest in having him show you how to fly it, the colour, shape, and even crappy wind, will be completely secondary.

The suggestions here are from people with lots of experience in being beginners: every time out there's something new to learn. Listen to them, go with a quality kite that you can afford, and have a good time!

pyro22487 - 23-6-2014 at 06:23 PM

I was going to say I taught an 8 or 9 year old to fly a 5m in 8-9 mph winds. So they arnt just for the big guys you can fly them too.

indigo_wolf - 23-6-2014 at 06:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pyro22487

I was going to say I taught an 8 or 9 year old to fly a 5m in 8-9 mph winds. So they arnt just for the big guys you can fly them too.

Immediately made me think of the picture at the bottom of John's webpage for the PZTrainer.

http://www.powerzonekitesports.com/pztrainer.html

ATB,
Sam

bobalooie57 - 24-6-2014 at 09:07 AM

underthewind, you might want to google NASA wing. It is indeed a 4-line powerkite(though can be flown 2-line) developed by NASA as a contollable parchute, converted to powerkite. I fly them a lot because of the conditions I have here. Believe me, a 5M NASA wing will do all the tricks he wants to do, and pull him all over to boot.(and would have fallen into your budget range) You can see many different sizes in action in my videos at
http://www.youtube.com/user/57bobalooie

underthewind - 24-6-2014 at 11:02 AM

wow, those are really neat. We probably should have gone that way instead :[

John Holgate - 24-6-2014 at 03:53 PM

Quote:

We probably should have gone that way instead :[

Personally, I think a small foil is just a little more fun than a small nasa to static fly - the foil will usually have just a slightly wider window and be a tad faster. In my inland, gusty conditions, the Nasa's make for a better engine for buggying than my foils do. That's why we end up with so many kites!!

3shot - 24-6-2014 at 05:05 PM

I've seen Riff's conversion on the 2.2 many times and have flown them as well. You will like it a lot!
You get all the stability of a Symphony and the tricks of a rev all in one.

BeamerBob - 24-6-2014 at 05:50 PM

We had an awesome time learning to fly on a 1.8 Symphony. My boys both were flying it at 7 years old and were ripping on it. They loved the speed and that it had some pull to it. The higher the winds, the bigger the smiles. You won't regret getting one of these. I still have a smaller one in the bag just for fun.

3shot - 24-6-2014 at 06:17 PM

Yeah Bobby. I still toss my 1.8 every once in a while. Bought my daughter the 1.4 last summer. She loves it.

underthewind - 24-6-2014 at 08:05 PM

sorry for the long crazy winding bumpy road. But we aren't getting him the symphony. Mom has been "setting him up". suggesting that he convert a 2 line and stuff. He was dead set against the idea, he is too worried about destroying a kite. And he's talking about refusing to do it to a kite that he would buy himself. I can tell you if he feels that way about that, then there's no way he would "risk" one that Mom and I got him.

BeamerBob - 24-6-2014 at 10:10 PM

It is a wonderful kite without the mod.

pyro22487 - 25-6-2014 at 12:08 AM

There is another kite that falls in your range. The Flexifoil Sting 1.4-1.7-2.4 sizes all are under 200$ and they are good kites we use the 1.7 stings on grass in around 60+ winds. DONT TRY THIS until you are ready but it shows they are a durable rugged kite and it absorbs gusts better than most kites.

pyro22487 - 25-6-2014 at 12:11 AM

video of RTZs 1.7 sting in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVxUQs59nwY

BeamerBob - 25-6-2014 at 08:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pyro22487

There is another kite that falls in your range. The Flexifoil Sting 1.4-1.7-2.4 sizes all are under 200$ and they are good kites we use the 1.7 stings on grass in around 60+ winds. DONT TRY THIS until you are ready but it shows they are a durable rugged kite and it absorbs gusts better than most kites.

I want to see some video of one in 60+ winds! That's 8 times more wind pressure than I had when I set my personal best.

underthewind - 25-6-2014 at 11:59 AM

mom ordered an HQ Alpha 2.5

pyro22487 - 25-6-2014 at 01:44 PM

Sadly we have no video from those days one day we will. We haven't had winds like that this year. We had some 25 gusting to 35 and had my 3.2 out in that. I did an OBE at a buggy demo needless to say I went back to my 2 meter flow. It wasn't quite enough but it managed ok.

hiaguy - 25-6-2014 at 03:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by underthewind

mom ordered an HQ Alpha 2.5

I'm sure he'll enjoy it:wee:
Make sure you wish him a Happy Birthday from all of us.

underthewind - 26-6-2014 at 12:16 PM

thanks :]