Power Kite Forum - Help needed with list of BEST low wind kites

Help needed with list of BEST low wind kites

jadog - 30-6-2014 at 05:35 AM

I'm building a list of kites that I hope to make available for this forum. I would like to include a list of kites that anybody can think of that would be good for ultra low winds. Something that can pull a board or buggy in 3-4 MPH winds. I've come up with the following:

HQ Matrixx (18M) - 2 votes
FlySurfer Speed (19M or above)
FlySurfer Peak (9M) - 2 votes
PL Vapor (16M) - 2 votes
PL Reactor II (10.8) - 2 votes
PL F-arc 1600 (use caution with gusty wind)
PL Synergy (24M)
NASA ParaWing (15M)
MAC Bego 600
Flexi Blade 8.5
Ozone Quantum (13.5M) - 2 votes
Ozone Chrono (12M or above)
Ozone Zephy (17M)
Ozone Yakuza (14M or above)
Gin Tonkawa (15M)
PKD Century (16M)
PKD Combat (10M or above) - 2 votes
Spleene X-19 (19M) - 2 votes
JoJo (16m)
Libre Spririt (15.5M)
Quadrifoil XXXL

Double (or even triple) line sets with Fixed Bridle kites seem to be a popular solution as well.

*** List has been updated to include suggestions below!

ssayre - 30-6-2014 at 05:38 AM

3-4 mph you would need a 15m nasa. That's almost not enough wind for any kite IMO.

The problem with the wind in my area when it is in that range is that it is accompanied with lulls of no wind. I've read that most of the single skin type kites handle low wind the best such as Peak or NPW.

Demoknight - 30-6-2014 at 05:44 AM

As for speeds, you would need a 19 or 21m deluxe for sub 3mph anything but static flying. A phantom wouldn't pull anything in that either. 16m vapor would probably do fine in that.

B-Roc - 30-6-2014 at 06:15 AM

MAC Bego 600
Blade 8.5
any high aspect race kite

Any 14+m depower

elnica - 30-6-2014 at 06:35 AM

3-4mph winds? Sounds like someone farted. :lol:

shehatesmyhobbies - 30-6-2014 at 06:40 AM

I must admit that having flown my 18m phantom more hours than any other kite I have flown, it will not pull me on a board or buggy at 4mph, especially inland. It takes at least 8mph and that is still working the kite to get going in the buggy. I can static fly it in 5mph winds if I use something to inflate it.

I have however buggies in 5mph winds with a 10.8 ReactorII.
Also did well with the Ranger 12m in lighter winds.

I am thinking. FB high aspect kites over 10m and de power kites like the speed 3's 19m will get you going in pretty light winds, some others as well, open cell depower kites 12m or higher should do good as well like the Montana 14m. Even the PL phantom 24 m takes some decent wind to stay in the air, that's a lot of material for a closed cell kite.

BeamerBob - 30-6-2014 at 07:02 AM

I've buggied with an 18m Phantom II in 5 mph winds, riding with Angus at Jekyll Island. Once moving it was on. Individual kites might have enough variance that it makes a difference in that lowest of wind ranges.

10.8 Reactor II can go down to about 3 mph but not below. Vapors in 11 and 13m sizes are maybe better in all but the least of winds because they aren't as difficult to turn.

HQ Matrix 15m is a low wind warrior, but I can't say how low. There were days on Ivanpah that it was one of the only kites flying at a 2013 gathering.

sunset-Jim - 30-6-2014 at 07:05 AM

I agree with FB high aspect race kite for the most efficientcy. Something in a 14m or bigger and on 35m lines. I would however caution, for smooth winds only. When you are set up to make maximum use of what wind is there, it won't take much of a gust to get ya in trouble.

Bladerunner - 30-6-2014 at 07:05 AM

We live in ultra low wind country and while I am impressed with my 18m Phantom I had to fly my 10.8 Reactor and now 19m Speed in what we call ultra low wind. 18m Phantom wouldn't be on my ultra low list. LOW wind, yes.

16m Century, 14m Yakuza, 16m JoJo for old school .

19m Spleene. 12m Chrono. Whatever the biggest Quantum is.

WELDNGOD - 30-6-2014 at 07:12 AM

If you use double length linesets, any higher aspect FBs (8-10m) should have a big enough window to make some energy. My 10m Century II in 6.6 paraglider nylon can do it @ 3-4 mph.

ssayre - 30-6-2014 at 07:19 AM

Being fairly close to his area, I think his main obstacle in those winds will be having a steady light wind. If the base wind is in the 3-4 range than it will most likely be accompanied by lulls of 0 and gusts 5mph over base wind.

kitemaker4 - 30-6-2014 at 07:23 AM

15 meter nasa wing.

Susan (npw goddess)

WELDNGOD - 30-6-2014 at 07:26 AM

Here is me flying a 10m PKD Combat in no wind ,in a fog bank at the beach. They are able to do this due to "apparent wind" ,that is created by being in motion.

http://vimeo.com/38891773

jadog - 30-6-2014 at 07:35 AM

Thanks for your input guys. @sunset-Jim - good call on watching out for gusts. @ssayre - this list isn't just for me and my area. I'm trying to compile a list for everyone - but thanks for looking out for me

. I've updated my original list to reflect the input you guys gave. I'll try to continue to update as new posts come in and if I missed any, please feel free to shout out! Now, anybody want to try to take a guess on the top three best choices on the list?

soliver - 30-6-2014 at 10:35 AM

If my wind is blowing 3-4mph, it is more likely going to lull more than blow. But I can do pretty well with anything under 10mph with my 8.6m Reactor II. When it starts to get below 5-6mph it gets really hard to buggy and I'm more likely just to static fly.

Smeagol - 30-6-2014 at 04:09 PM

Big Blu? I seem to recall flying her in pretty low winds (~5), but of course I had to inflate with the leaf blower first.

RedSky - 30-6-2014 at 06:32 PM

4.7m Libre Spirit if kept moving has to be my all time low wind kite in the buggy. 3-5mph (inland) I have a video somewhere.

Kober - 30-6-2014 at 06:58 PM

15.1 Gin Tonkawa is my low wind tool on snow and in a buggy .... on water Spleen X19

also check out 19M Kitech Fly!3

USA_Eli_A - 30-6-2014 at 07:34 PM

Ozone Chrono is AMAZING!!!

USA_Eli_A - 30-6-2014 at 07:36 PM

http://www.flyozone.com/landkites/en/news/headlines/23547

CHECK THIS OUT!

soliver - 30-6-2014 at 08:35 PM

Hearing amazing things about the low wind capabilities of the FS Peak

ssayre - 1-7-2014 at 02:55 AM

Quote:

this list isn't just for me and my area. I'm trying to compile a list for everyone - but thanks for looking out for me

Your welcome. Good thread, especially since low wind is where I happen to be lacking the most right now.

John Holgate - 1-7-2014 at 03:17 AM

I've seen Mik333 run rings around me with a Century II 10m in just a few knots when I couldn't get a 9m Riot into the air. So I know that's an excellent low wind kite (and it wasn't the lightweight version). I've also seen a 13m Vapor park and ride in 3.5 knots. Mind you, the guys flying these kites are darn good pilots and I doubt I could have done the same with their kites. Don't discount the pilot skill needed for really light wind flying.

Feyd - 1-7-2014 at 07:01 AM

John's got a good point. You have to know how to get the most out of the kite.

My 2 cents...

Closest thing to a light wind Arc, Phantom 2 24m (once you get it moving and making apparent) and 24m Synergy (More grunt than the Phantom, not as fast but close enough in light winds.) F-arc 1600. (You have to be on your game and God help you on the off chance you lay it down and have to relaunch but performs in light winds as well as a Speed 3 and goes upwind better)
Big Blu, the Arc Proto 24m+, is a great low wind rig. Park and ride to the max. But as mentioned (all this big arcs) it takes a lot to get them fully inflated. Mechanical inflation is the only reasonable method. Otherwise in light wind, inflation is an all day project.

The 15m Matrixx, very close in performance to the 19m Psycho 5 DLX. Which we were surprised by given the smaller size and standard material.

9m Flysurfer Peak. Piloting gets a lot out of this kite in low winds as do line extensions and a 3" pigtail. We put it head to head with a number of kites in light winds and it performs amazingly well. In a world where the lighter the winds, the higher the cost to ride, it's a welcome departure.

Haven't flown the Chrono yet. Hard to find impartial reports but there have been a few and almost all very positive. We're looking forward to getting a demo in here and doing some side by side comparisons.

Fixed bridals offer the most grunt for the size and probably a near unlimited list of FB for light winds. Where I live FB just aren't practical because the winds are always up and down and it's easy to go from just right to OP'd in a blink. Which isn't much fun IMO. But there are some days where it would be nice to have some of that raw power. :D

USA_Eli_A - 1-7-2014 at 08:09 AM

Do not forget about the Edge, I have one. I call it the current killer!! 7 world champions....

USA_Eli_A - 1-7-2014 at 08:18 AM

http://www.wainmanhawaii.com/rabbits/rg20/bigmama

I have always wanted to fly one of these BigMammas

USA_Eli_A - 1-7-2014 at 05:27 PM

DONT FORGET THE YAKUZA GT 14 AND 17M.

or the 5.5 Quadrifoil comp,

JoJo 14 and 16m

The ozone Zephyr 17m

Libre Spirit 15.5

any light wind suggestions from the Club 10 are legit.

kiteballoon - 1-7-2014 at 07:50 PM

It's interesting you mention a low wind kite. For many folks likt myself, proletiat, soliver, ssayre, and others, we don't have low steady winds. Rather, as soliver noted, it's 0-10 mph winds, with 5 being the average :-) I'm curious what the best kite is for these conditions, as you also cannot assume you have the room to work the kite forever to build apparent wind, or have a low rolling resistance (think grass, not packed dirt or sand). Yep, asking for the impossible, but it can't hurt to ask :-)

soliver - 1-7-2014 at 08:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by kiteballoon

It's interesting you mention a low wind kite. For many folks likt myself, proletiat, soliver, ssayre, and others, we don't have low steady winds. Rather, as soliver noted, it's 0-10 mph winds, with 5 being the average :-) I'm curious what the best kite is for these conditions, as you also cannot assume you have the room to work the kite forever to build apparent wind, or have a low rolling resistance (think grass, not packed dirt or sand). Yep, asking for the impossible, but it can't hurt to ask :-)

Exactly the reason I like the 8.6m RII in my conditions. It's big enough where it will function in lighter wind, but small enough to sling around when it lulls... It can be irritating as H377 trying to fly in light wind around Atlanta, but in reality, it's more often light wind than high wind. I consciously don't even consider going out if the forecast is below 8mph, because usually if the forecast calls for 10mph it is actually 7mph when I show up. With the 8mph forecast it's usually 5-6mph gusting to 10 occasionally. Not to mention that neither of my favorite spots are more than the equivalent of 2 football fields... Let's just say I'm good at turning.... I can't even imagine trying to get a 13 or 16m to turn over in my local spots.

ALL things considered, I think there's something to be said for the "smaller-big" sizes that allow you functionality along with maneuverability,... These elements are key for those of us soccer-field style riders.

ChrisH - 1-7-2014 at 09:55 PM

Ozone Yakuza GT 14 & 17
Ozone Quantum 13.5? Not sure on that one, haven't flown it yet.

Imo, flying a 10.8 R2 in 3-4 mph winds would be work, not fun. YMMV

Bladerunner - 1-7-2014 at 10:02 PM

Today was proof to myself that the 18m Phantom is definitely not an ultra low wind kite. When everything changed I found out you can jump HOOJ with it in 14kt winds though! :o :D

USA_Eli_A - 2-7-2014 at 05:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Quote: Originally posted by kiteballoon

I really like where this thread is going.

Now thing about how long lines can improve power in low winds in land, on soft sand, soft packed dirt ect.

I have had a 10 m on 15m lines, lines up a 5m on 30m lines and noticed similarities in torque, and speed down wind.

When I was a kid, the biggest kite was a 9.9m quadrafoil...not very fun to fly in light winds. But the 5.5 Q comp on 25m lines was!!!

Keep the list real. Those who don't know....just don't really know do they?

ssayre - 2-7-2014 at 05:46 PM

Quote:

I have had a 10 m on 15m lines, lines up a 5m on 30m lines and noticed similarities in torque, and speed down wind.

I don't have a light wind kite or long lines, but I do have more than one lineset. Should I try flying the 5.3 viper on a combined set to improve low wind?

John Holgate - 2-7-2014 at 08:30 PM

Quote:

Should I try flying the 5.3 viper on a combined set to improve low wind?

Absolutely. What is there to lose? Another advantage of the long lines should be giving you a little more time to get your bum in the buggy - which I've found can be difficult in really light winds - I can keep the kite moving around while I'm standing....but when I go to get in the buggy, it's tricky to keep the kite moving.

Give it a fly and let us know how you get on. I used to often fly my 4m Beamer on 30m lines and every time I changed back to 18m lines, it was like someone had cut a meter off my kite!

soliver - 2-7-2014 at 08:44 PM

I like the longer lines idea in theory, but if I get longer lines, someone get me a bigger field.... Like I said earlier, 2-3 football fields at most... Longer lines sounds cool, but it's really not a viable option for me.

USA_Eli_A - 3-7-2014 at 10:02 AM

I have seen people combine lines, or extend them for light conditions...

ssayre - 3-7-2014 at 12:50 PM

What's the best way? Do you just stick the loop through the loop on one line and then pull the loop of the next line through?

BeamerBob - 3-7-2014 at 02:09 PM

That's the best way. It is captive so it can't work loose. Also the absence of any knot makes it smooth to avoid tangles.

John Holgate - 3-7-2014 at 03:10 PM

You can also use some short pigtails with a loop at one end and knot at the other - I just made some up out of 3mm cord. It does leave you with a knot though which is less than ideal but certainly much faster.

jadog - 6-7-2014 at 06:59 AM

Great feedback guys. Original post has been updated!

Bladerunner - 6-7-2014 at 08:31 AM

If I haven't put in a vote for the 10.8 Reactor, count me in. It doesn't have to be Reactor II .

I owned the Reactor I as a low wind kite and it served me very well on beaches with room to build up speed. My issue with it was using it for snow kiting in gusty winds. Being so small it lofted me a couple of times. Higher than any lofting I had experienced.

I had trouble getting the most of it in our smallish park but think it had a bit to do with my lack of FB skills. Ken 3 has an R II and is loving in at GP . He is much better at looping + downturning it than I am though.

I think I see how the 8.6 would also be a resonable canditate but have no personal experience.

ssayre - 6-7-2014 at 08:43 AM

Nobody mentioned the large size bullets. I've never flown one but am curious if they would be good in low wind and more specifically inland wind.

Bladerunner - 6-7-2014 at 08:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Nobody mentioned the large size bullets. I've never flown one but am curious if they would be good in low wind and more specifically inland wind.

7m Bullet was my biggest kite in my 1st quiver. It was a good low wind kite but I ended up sitting out while others were riding with 16m Centuries, JoJo's etc.. Not a super low wind kite.

RedSky - 6-7-2014 at 08:21 PM

with recent discussions on low wind flying, I made this video to demonstrate how skill plays a major part in flying in such conditions.

XC's weather forecast was good, but looking out my bedroom window I could see no movement.

canuck - 6-7-2014 at 08:51 PM

I have to add the Quadrifoil XXXL. If you have 5mph apparent wind you are fully powered up. I like my XXL too for light wind because it is easier on the back when winds are 0-7 mph and you are constantly relauching.

crazyherb - 6-7-2014 at 10:25 PM

REDSKY- OMG!! Hilarious...the music just adds to it...LOL.

I have a little experience with low winds...and long lines...but after watching Eli's 19M Ozone Edge video, I may have a new "next kite" to work at getting into my quiver....thanks Eli...geeesh..

Anyway...I can attest to long lines being my primary low-wind session saver..

I've found a good balance of "getting more sky" for my kite and compromising with some "line-drag" in 55-60M lines...and the old trusty 24M Phantom II.

I get around and moving in 5-7mph.

Here's me with the above setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTU46xiUwHc&feature=share...

macboy - 6-7-2014 at 11:03 PM

Just curious - does anyone make a light fabric fixed bridle like the DLX's?

I think I recall some of the original model Flysurfers being able to be hooked to handles - are current models also able to be flown on handles? I'd suspect the SA's to be quite the ultra low wind monsters. God help you in the gusts though.....

RedSky - 7-7-2014 at 06:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by crazyherb

REDSKY- OMG!! Hilarious...the music just adds to it...LOL.

I have a little experience with low winds...and long lines...but after watching Eli's 19M Ozone Edge video, I may have a new "next kite" to work at getting into my quiver....thanks Eli...geeesh..

Anyway...I can attest to long lines being my primary low-wind session saver..

I've found a good balance of "getting more sky" for my kite and compromising with some "line-drag" in 55-60M lines...and the old trusty 24M Phantom II.

I get around and moving in 5-7mph.

Here's me with the above setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTU46xiUwHc&feature=share...

You really are crazy herb. I've been watching your videos.
You're my kinda guy. :D