First time out, kite unresponsive

Hi, let me start by saying i only just recently purchased a HQ Symphony 1.3 for my daughter and loved it so much i decided to buy a bigger 4 line kite for myself.

I watched loads of videos and read up on as much information as i could much to the annoyance of my wife. My main reason for wanting a 4 line kite was due to having more control.

I decided to purchase an Pansh Adam 5.5m due to it being a relatively stable kite to fly for a beginner and more importantly at the time was the price as i didnt want to put too much cash into this to begin with in case it's not for me. I'm pretty sure it is though

So my kite turns up today after what seems like a long week waiting and i rush out to try it out. Its not really windy enough to be honest, 9-10mph gusts and then nothing but i was determined i wasnt waiting any longer to fly this.

I got it up and i have to admit it wasnt as easy to fly as my daughters baby kite but i managed to turn it left and right but that was about it. I was a little dissapointed to be honest as i was expecting to have all this control, left and right, up and down and yet it didnt feel like i had any more control than my daughter's 2 line kite. I was trying to bring it back down from zenith to the power zone and yet it seemed unresponsive and would only come back down when the wind subsided or i steered it to the left or right.

I'm guessing it's my brake lines need shortening or is it due to there not being enough wind?

How much control should i have from the kite, should i be able to hold it in any position i like within the window or am i expecting too much?

If it is due to the brake lines being too long do i tie another knot in the handles or do i shorten the actual brake lines somehow?

Many thanS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s in advance.

EDIT: Typos

Yes of course, i can do that. ThanS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s for pointing me in the right direction. I guess i still have alot to learn.

Really appreciate everyone taking time out to answer my questions so thanks again

ThanS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s for the welcome.

I had so much fun flying that 1.3 with my daughter, she's only just turned 7 but within 20 minutes she was flying it just as well as me. She absolutely loved it and im hoping we can both go out flying together as she gets older.

As soon as i got home i jumped straight onto the computer and started looking for a kite for myself.
I'm only a young dad and have had a play on my sons mountainboard so am hoping to eventually take that to the beach but really need to gain enough experience of controlling a kite first but hopefully the Adam will still be useful for something in the future.

For now im eyeing up a 3m Hornet but that may change. As for the brake lines, i guess shortening them is going to make a huge difference as i literally had no more control than a 2 line kite.

I will wait patiently until theres some steady wind too.

Edit: Just watched some video's of the Super 10's, they look like heaps of fun

Yes im going to play it safe and buy a 3m beamer as they seem to be tried and tested for a beginner and see how I go from there. Just on the look out for the best place to buy one now

My wife wont be happy when she finds out. Shes already had a moan that I ignored her all night whilst reading up on kites.

I will be honest that 5.5m was a bit of a let down for a newcomer like myself. I managed to crash it downwards as the turn was so slow. Hopefully I can get it to turn tighter with the brakes.

Another thing, I dont know how you guys do it but my arms were about ready to drop off after just 10 minutes flying. Need to get in shape.

Sorry if I was a bit snippy this morning. I was in a bad mood and dislike how Pansh does this to people. Check and see if all lines are equal. Pansh has poor quality control.

You want to set up your brake lines so they have a slight arc in them when the handles are relaxed / pointing toward the kite with the kite sitting at zenith. If it won't sit at zenith and you have 5kts + winds then you have too much brake. Like mentioned below 5kts or so you may need to keep the kite in motion. Hold the handles with the top lines between your top and middle fingers. You should be able to stall the kite and back it down with the brakes fully applied. If the kite ends up spinning or it won't sit at zenith odds are great that you have the brakes too tight + unbalanced. Or you are accidently giving input via the handles. Tuning isn't rocket science and it sounds like you are on the right track.

When you crash nose down you can back the kite up off the ground by using the brakes and then turning the kite.

To speed up your turns add some brake to the side you want to turn. To get a feel for brake turns start with the kite at zenith and add some brake to just one side.

Avoid jerky motions , it only confuses the kite. Instead anticipate what you need to do and start the move well ahead. 5.5m is pretty big and pretty slow to react.

Possibly the best deal out there on a new beginner kite RTF is the 3.3m PKD Buster. Beamers are good but a bit more expensive new. Check UK forums for second hand deals. Stick with PKF for the family feel + good advice.

If you love your wife and kids, WEAR A HELMET !!!

P.S. the sport gets extremely fun when you get in motion. Definitely give the mountain board a try once you can fly your kite blind ( without looking at it ) . That is when having the 5.5m will really pay off ! The 5.5 Adam isn't an awful kite just not a great kite for learning on your own.

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Sorry if I was a bit snippy this morning.

Ken's a great pilot, but don't ask him questions until he's had his morning coffee

It's no problem Bladerunner, i was expecting some stick when i mentioned Pansh anyway

At the time i ordered, it made sense to go with the Pansh as it seemed like it wasnt going to cost me the earth to get into something i may or may not like. I do think it's something im going to really enjoy though, once i get the hang of thing's.

I can see now that something smaller and better quality purchased used would have been the best way forward.

I have just finished setting up the bottom leaders in 2" adjustments and the top in 1" adjustements. What i can say is the original knot in the leaders was nearly 1" out to begin with and i've also noticed 1 handle is about 15mm larger than the other handle. I have nothing to compare the quality to, but i can see that you probably get what you pay for. hopefully they will do me for now.

I'm looking at Beamer III 3m on ebay at the moment and going to put a bid in on that when it end's. They seem to be going for anywhere between £60 and £95 and i'll be more than happy at that price.

There's not so much as a gentle breeze outside at the moment and were having some of the best weather weve had in year's so im sat waiting impatiently to get back out and relaunch this with the adjustments made.

@hiaguy, i cant really say im a morning person myself until i've had my coffee fix as for my kids. Dont even want to go there.


EDIT: Dont know if anyone could advise but, i've spotted a red Beamer III 3m and theres another auction for a yellow Beamer 3.6m

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171391214354?_trksid=p2055119.m143...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331262528284?_trksid=p2055119.m143...

Do you know which would be the best model to bid on?

Ok thanS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s, hopefully i should grab something this week. It would be ideal at those prices.

ThanS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s again for all your Tips and advice too.

Quote: Originally posted by macboy

You're going to want a quad line kite if you want to get into the traction part of this kite flying thing. It's been said before but I'll say it again - something int he 3m range is probably one of the best places to start and will be a kite that you can learn everything on in lower winds and five years from now you'll still use when the wind is howling. I've seen countless people go the Beamer route and would nod my head in that direction or perhaps the PKD Buster Soulfly. My Busters are the "test the winds" kites for me. Faithful companions. And both economical options and high, high quality.

I totally agree. I went the 5m route and got busted up. I was told to get a 3m and refused to listen. I now fly my HQ 3m more than any other kite.

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

The 3m is the one like my first 4 line kite. It taught me the ropes and was my first kite I effectively buggied with. They have made improvements but that would be an awesome deal for you at those prices. I'm not sure about the model history with the 3.6. Maybe it came with a bar from the factory? Older model than the Beamer III? Not sure.

The Beamer 3.6 TSR was developed based on the Beamer II before the Beamer III.

It's a quad line kite, but comes from the factory with a control bar. Can just as easily be swapped out to fly with handles.

It had an adjustable Angle of Attack to bias the kite towards speed or power.

Can find the field card/manual for it here:
http://www.invento-hq.com/Support/manuals/fc_beamer_tsr.pdf

Although it can sometimes take a bit to get registered, www.kitecrowd.com has a healthy UK user base and the Buy/Sell section of the forum gets a fair amount of traffic.

ATB,
Sam

I could probably cut the longer handle back a bit myself without too much trouble, i think the holes for the leaders are in the right position it just made it a little more difficult to make sure the knots i had tied off were equal when making adjustements to shorten the brake lines as i couldnt position the handles together so easily.

The lines i took for granted would be the same size so i will have to take them out and check today. The kite did have a tendancy to dive to the right and land nose down but i put this down to my inexperience and the wind.

In fairness to Pansh, i dont really think i set the kite up correctly to begin with, but am confident i have a good idea how to set it up now with the help i have received from here.

I'm holding out for a 3m Beamer now when the right one comes up. It seem's like a great kite for a beginner and im sure i will use it for years.

I just checked the weather and we suddenly have 13mph winds for a few hours today so im going to get out and see what progress i can make.

Ok, though i'd post a quick update.

I managed to get out for a few hours.

Sun was shining, it's about 26c here which is unusually hot for england. We havent had many great summers for a few years now but it looks like were going to have a good one. Wind was blowing a steady 13mph with the odd gust.

I first checked all my lines and the lengths are all equal so i continued to set up and shortened the brake lines. I found they were still a little too slack so i moved them, back a further 2"

I was then able to launch the kite easily, straight to zenith and had control to land the kite with the brake lines succesfully.

Now i must admit i dont feel comfortable at all with this kite, Im 150lbs and felt the kite had more control off me than i had of it. All the videos i watched looked so much fun but in reality i was wrestling with something that has the potential to kill me and i felt i was only just managing to tip the scales in my favour. It was dragging me down the field and at one point i was surprised at how far i had travelled, it also lifted me momentarily.

I used to work physical labour and since a career change have noticed im not as strong as i used to be so i dont know if that plays any part. I dont know how you guys do it but i was flying for 5 minutes and having to have 10 minutes rest.
I'm beginning to wonder if even a 3m would be too much.

Now i did have a few other problems with the kite. I was really cautious of people getting close to me, especially with my limited experience. Whilst i had the kite tied down i had one little boy come up to me (he was alone and only about 8) and ask me for a go, he wanted to help. I explained to him it was too dangerous and joked about how i couldnt even handle it myself. He was persistent on touching the kite and walk in the way of the lines. I didn't want to be nasty to him but felt like i was going to need to be more firm with him as he was adamant he was strong enough. Whilst i was talking to him i had another lady approach from the left with a pram (there had been nobody here previously) and she stood only a few feet away from the kite. You could say i was a little distracted trying to please the boy who said i was mean and watching what the woman with the pram was doing. It turns out she was wanting to show her child the kite. Anyway, the wind picked up and started to launch the kite. The kite was turning in loops, launching and relanding before taking off again. The woman with the pram was not moving, i dont think she realised the danger and in a panic i grabbed the actual lines and tried to wrestle the kite away from her. In reality i was at the mercy of the wind and luckily it died down.

What would you guy's do in that situation and is there anything i could do to stop the kite ever self launching again?
The reason i grabbed the lines was because the handles were already staked down so there was no other way to try to keep the kite from blowing into her.

I had another question too. I feel the brake lines could probably be tightened more as there was no way i could reverse launch. Is there a technique to reverse launching or do you just reverse the controls like i tried to.

I'll post a picture of where i was tied to the leaders, i figured i had already shortened them a considerable amount but i have no previous experience with a 4 line to compare the feel of the brakes to.

I sort of saw this coming.

I think your kite started spinning when parked for 2 reasons. Your brakes need to be shortened even more. The uneven length of the handles means more brake on one side than the other. I would be complaining to Pansh and tell them why the different length handles don't work and that you demand a refund or replacement. Pansh are good about making up for their mistakes.

Your wording it exactly right. We all recommend starting with a 3m so you can be in control of the kite. Too big and you are just trying to survive. Not really learning anything about flying. Once you learn kite control you will learn how to work the wind window. Using the edge of the window to avoid power and the center to gain power. Too big a kite reduces the days you can go out + increases the chances you will go out in too much wind. Eventually you will be able to fly the 5.5in that wind but it will be about the upper limit.

Reverse launch is like backing the kite down. Add brake until the kite flies up off the ground in reverse. Avoid jerky motions. Then turn it. BUT .... when you turn it you will be right in the power zone !!!!! You may be glad it didn't happen today.

The general public are a constant problem. It is shocking how ignorant they can be. Big Prop's on being a diplomat. You are representing the whole kiting community. Always expect the public to do the stupidest thing you can imagine and worse. They will never understand the unsafe zones so you need to keep an eye out. When I am flying and they get into my space I stop. When they just stand there I explain that I can't fly with them in front of me and if they want me to continue to please step back behind me. OFTEN they will be hostile. Those who can't do something often are. Just like how skate and snowboarders were not accepted at 1st.

Careful grabbing lines. We all wear gloves ( and helmets ). I know people who have literally lost fingers . You may want to get " kite killers ". Grabbing them would have been a good choice.

A harness allows you to fly without so much strain on your arms but you need to know how to fly the kite 1st.

Don't be too discouraged. When you get the 3m it will be the perfect balance between power and controllability. Even then 13mph winds will be the upper limit until you learn to control it. Once you master it your 3m will take you into the 20's. It is all about time on the ropes and setting memory reflexes at 1st. Every time out is a learning experience. Look at it like managing to survive today without injury was a huge success. You actually learned a lot. Don't give up !