Power Kite Forum

Let's get that M5 up and running!

soliver - 7-8-2014 at 04:38 PM

So I've got one more week of school after this one's up. I'm taking the fall semester off, so I'm planning on fixing up the M5 I bought from Cheddarhead... Here's his description of the kite's issue:

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddarhead  
A nice Montana V 12.5 meter for sale but it does have a flying issue. The leading edge want's to tuck and flip the kite while flying, then it falls out of the sky. Most noticebly when going up wind. I've tried just about every adjustment I can think of and nothing has corrected the issue. I did snag the bridle a couple of times last winter and suspect this is the culprit. I haven't enough expertise in kites to trouble shoot this. Somebody that knows more about bridles may find they can fix this issue and have a kite they can enjoy for many years to come. Myself, it will just sit in the closet forever and not get used. I hate to sell something with a defect but don't know what else to do other than chop it up for making jackets. Feel free to make some kind of offer, I hate for this kite to go to waste.



It's been suggested that I need to add a pigtail to the A bridle to lift the leading edge a little. This seems relatively simple and I'm planning to give that a try. So if you guys could help me by telling me A: what to use to make these pigtails, B:Where to buy it and roughly how much I should expect to spend? And C: how to make said pigtails...

I expect it ought to be dyneema sleeved and stitched with multiple knots to try as adjustments

If there is perhaps an adjustment to be made on the mixers or something of some sort, rather than all the pigtail bit, let me know.

Would love to hear y'all's thoughts.

Spencer

Bladerunner - 7-8-2014 at 04:48 PM

I use Q-line for my pig tails. Easy, no sleeve required.

I think Dakitze or some other dealers might sell you it by the foot and be able to send it in an envelope?

riffclown - 7-8-2014 at 04:49 PM

Tell me how long you need the pigtails and how many you need. I' ll take care of you.. U2U me your address

rtz - 7-8-2014 at 04:57 PM

Have a look here:

http://www.powerzonekitesports.com/home/?page_id=64

soliver - 7-8-2014 at 08:32 PM

Thanks a lot gang. Riff, I may take you up on that, though I'm not sure how long they need to be, but I know its a good idea to have the ability to adjust and tune it as needed.

Markite said it'd be a good idea to have a small pigtail with multiple knots in it to try different lengths. Propylene22 said he made a very small pigtail for his M3 that in the end only extended the A-bridle by millimeters. This is why I'm wondering if its possible that there may be some adjustment that could be made sans pigtail.

discuss:...

MeatÐriver - 7-8-2014 at 09:46 PM

Well if we are just going to discuss things (i feel like rambling).... the B row could also be thrown into the "mix" so to speak.

The B row bridle points are usually placed very close, if not on, the kites center of pressure which sits about 1/4 of the chord length from the leading edge . This is what carries more load than any other row.

What I'm getting at is that rather than the "A's" being short... it could actually be that the B rows are long having been stretched through use, abuse or what have you. (I have bought a kite from cheddarhead before so I would assume just regular use.)

On a fix bridle it would be more important to know which one is out of spec, because adjusting the wrong one would throw the original AoA off. But a depower would just be corrected in the bar throw/trim for the most part. Whether the A's are short or the B's are long, adjusting one or the other toward their proper spec could/should fix the LE tuck on a depower without much consequence.

I'm no kite repair specialists by any means and blah, blah, blah. But I have used a "bead trick" where you can play with shortening bridle lines without tearing the bridle tree apart. This involves getting a "pinch"of the bridle that you want to shorten and running it through a small bead and wrapping that slack that is hanging out of said bead back around itself(someone please help me out here with a pic or something as I know my explanation is lacking, the alcohol is taking hold at this point :thumbup: ).

I have used this technique before on my first foil, a snapshot 4 line in which I blew out the B row flying in stupid winds and it brought it back to life w/o a bridle tear down.

Just throwing out a pretty simple technique that can be applied and removed very quickly, easily and cheaply with the correct sized bead from your local craft store.

Ok, I'm done now. Can't wait to hear how it goes with your newly acquired Montana.


sand flea - 8-8-2014 at 04:46 AM

Meat knows his stuff

ssayre - 8-8-2014 at 05:09 AM

meatdriver, that's genius. I don't think I need to use that trick yet but that would be a great way to play around with bridle adjustments.

3shot - 8-8-2014 at 05:41 AM

Awesome tip meat!!!

bobalooie57 - 8-8-2014 at 06:16 AM

Quote: Originally posted by MeatÐriver  
.

I'm no kite repair specialists by any means and blah, blah, blah. But I have used a "bead trick" where you can play with shortening bridle lines without tearing the bridle tree apart. This involves getting a "pinch"of the bridle that you want to shorten and running it through a small bead and wrapping that slack that is hanging out of said bead back around itself(someone please help me out here with a pic or something as I know my explanation is lacking, the alcohol is taking hold at this point :thumbup: ).


I used this same bead technique when trying to adjust the bridles on the PL "Skin" I got a while back. When you pull the section of bridle thru the bead, and loop it back over the bead, it makes like a larks head knot around the bead, holding it in place. I think that's what MeatDriver was trying to say. good quick way to 'shorten' a line without cutting or tying a knot.

soliver - 8-8-2014 at 09:19 AM

Awesome idea... what kind of bead? just like the big fat plastic ones for kids jewelry making?

3shot - 8-8-2014 at 10:48 AM

Heck Spencer. If your girls are anything like mine, you've already got hundreds of those beads laying all over the house. Under the TV, down in the couch, Down the sink......
Lol

I have learned a cool a$$ trick today!!!!!

MeatÐriver - 8-8-2014 at 12:05 PM

Hey, I'm just passing along info that was passed to me somehow. A little "kite hack" if you will.

@Soliver: That's what I used. Go find and shakedown a local "candy raver" and you'd likely find what you need. I would however check for any small manufacturing burrs. Idk that they would be sharp enough to harm the bridle , but I'd rather be safe.

soliver - 8-8-2014 at 01:07 PM

Where do they need to be located? On each bridle leg closest to the kite? Or somewhere else.

MeatÐriver - 8-8-2014 at 01:26 PM

What made sense to me was to place them fairly close to the kite. This was an attempt to reduce the chance of the beads snagging other bridles. Was this the correct placement? .....I couldn't say.

bobalooie57 - 9-8-2014 at 04:29 AM

I think they call them Pony beads, the big plastic ones. I pretty much did what MD did. Seemed to stabilize the Skin somewhat, but that kite has a habit of backing up when you least expect it, and with dune fencing just 35 feet downwind in some spots, I just don't trust it well enough to fly it at Southwick. Anyway, use the bead, it is easily undone if it doesn't workout.

Oooooooooh rats...

soliver - 15-8-2014 at 03:32 PM

So, I'm officially finished with school til spring and intended to work on the beads in the bridles as discussed above, and planned to get what I need and work on the kite and see if I can get it to fly... If nothing else, I've been excited to have time for a buggy session.

But then:


I went to Home Depot to pick something up for work on the way there yesterday, and as I'm culling through the wood trim pieces in the rack (standing upright and about 40" off the floor) trying to get at the longer pieces in the back, a 10 foot long piece of 1.5" round stock pops off the rack, falls and lands directly on my big toe... Definitely confirmed broken. Especially since I had planned to put my shoes on when I got to work and only had on flip flops... Holy schniekies batman, that hurt REALLY REALLY REALLY bad. Long story short, doctor's orders: limited standing and walking for 2 weeks... DRAT!!! No kiting for me.

Here's a tip, don't wear flip flops in Home Depot... Even if it's just for a quick pop in.

ssayre - 15-8-2014 at 03:46 PM

ouch! you didn't have to say it was broken, I could tell just by seeing the picture. That looks extremely painful. Hopefully it heals fast.

soliver - 15-8-2014 at 03:59 PM

It actually doesn't hurt much now, I just have been on my feet all day and that made it look worse. ... I'm supposed to set an appt with a pediatrist next week

Every time I look at it, I think of the butler from Mr. Deeds

MeatÐriver - 15-8-2014 at 04:08 PM

:barf:

Brutal! That looks pretty rough man. Good thing you don't need your foot for bridle repairs....though it would probably be useful! Wish you a speedy recovery.

3shot - 15-8-2014 at 04:39 PM

OMG!! Thats a bad one dude! Looks like those things that be floating in the jars at the supermarket :lol:
That ones gonna throb when you slow down a take a load off. Get well soon bud.
images.jpg - 11kB

soliver - 15-8-2014 at 05:34 PM

Yeah... I repeat, it is NOT wise to wear flip flops in the Depot

Nice pic Jason

indigo_wolf - 15-8-2014 at 08:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  

Every time I look at it, I think of the butler from Mr. Deeds




ATB,
Sam

soliver - 16-8-2014 at 02:56 PM

EXACTLY!!!!

Thanks Sam.

soliver - 20-8-2014 at 08:25 PM

So I pulled out the M5 today and I'm pretty sure I've located the B bridle. If I were to start beading the B bridles would I be doing every single one? Or should I wait on a bridling diagram and get a tape measure with mm on it to find which ones have stretched?

D@&! This kite is big.

JWC gettin ready to roll yo!

MeatÐriver - 20-8-2014 at 09:33 PM

My first guess would be a to start with the parts of the B bridle which receive a majority of load. That being the "PA" portion of the kite. Once again, this would just be an educated guess from my understanding of how the bridle might stretch over time and what has worked for myself in the past.

Maybe start from the center and work your way outward until the issue lessens / goes away.

bigE123 - 21-8-2014 at 12:13 AM

Sorry a bit late on this thread, if it were me I would start by getting a bridle plan, HQ are very good at sending them out via email. As it's a de-power kite does the kite have the same tendency right across it's power range? Or is it only when fully de-powered? By adjusting the bridle sets you are altering the AoA, which a de-power does anyway, without the bridle plan you could spend hours with beads/knots and not get anywhere. If it has been snagged and a line has stretched it sound more like one of the primaries as that will effect more of the kite rather than one of the shorter secondaries.

soliver - 21-8-2014 at 04:22 AM

Thanks guys for the advice,

@Meat, uh...what? You're going to have to tell me what you mean by "PA".... I understand to an extent, but I'm not sure I am 100%.

@BigE, I've already emailed Chris at HQ, and he said he would try to get me what I need.

Would it be best to wait until I get that diagram to mess with it, as then I can see what's stretched?

bigE123 - 21-8-2014 at 07:03 AM

Personally I would wait, it may be something very simple i.e. just one line, if you dive in you may dissapear up your own @rse. Tuning a kite is not that easy if you have not done it before, it's a difficult thing to explain.

Once you get the plans start at the end where all the bridles come together (closest point to where the flying line attaches) measure one line then start comparing each primary line to it..... So if the first A primary is 235cm and the next one should be 238cm you're looking for a difference of 3cm rather than re-measuring the whole length. The other thing I do is drop the flying lines off and fix the attachment point to something so that you can pull the lines and take measurements and start comparing without the end moving. I use the kitchen door and walk the kite across the room, it drives the missus mad but doing it outside any wind and the kite is a bit of a handful and you end-up trying to weigh it down.
Once you have checked all the primaries on one side A/B/C etc then is just a case of comparing each line to it's corresponding line on the other side.

Sounds like a ball ache but you have to be very methodical, if you find one is out alter it and keep checking.

Good luck!

soliver - 22-8-2014 at 02:07 PM

Well... Blasted podiatrist gave me this honkin' thing




and I have to wear it for 3 WEEKS!!!

No kiting for me :no:

ssayre - 23-8-2014 at 12:09 PM

Bummer, maybe you can make some sort of kiting accessory out of the boot

soliver - 23-8-2014 at 12:48 PM

:lol:

cheezycheese - 23-8-2014 at 01:04 PM

Wicked scud boot.... :D should ask for another !!

soliver - 23-8-2014 at 02:19 PM

:lol:... But... New job =Insurance deductible not met= too $&@!! Expensive... Good idea though.

soliver - 23-8-2014 at 02:22 PM

I'll put skate trucks and wheels and have a roller boot ... Forget longboards

soliver - 26-8-2014 at 04:16 PM

Got the M5 bridling diagram from Chris yesterday, scrounged up some beads today,... Planning on playing around with it on my lunch break tomorrow ... Woot woot

soliver - 9-9-2014 at 12:11 PM

Just an update,... I spent an hour comparing the B set of bridles on the right side of the kite to the diagram and am just not sure I want to carry on. It looks like the tune up will be affordable in about a month or so, plus I want to be certain it's done right. That said, I'll likely be sending it off in a month or so.

indigo_wolf - 9-9-2014 at 02:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by cheezycheese  
Wicked scud boot.... :D should ask for another !!


The ultimate scud boots.....

Also d@mn fine for crab sledding, but absolutely requires a set of creepers to get back up the hill.

Memories of a misspent youth... :rolleyes:



ATB,
Sam

3shot - 21-9-2014 at 07:38 AM

Any luck with the tuning Spencer?

soliver - 21-9-2014 at 09:11 AM

I gave it up ... It was taking up too much time, and I wasn't sure if I was even going to be able to get it working ... I'll get a little extra dough in October and send it to Powerzone.... I want to be sure it's done right.

3shot - 21-9-2014 at 05:31 PM

Good call :thumbup:
Cant wait to see you fly it!

soliver - 21-9-2014 at 08:47 PM

Me too :lol: