Power Kite Forum

NPW line lengths?

rofer - 11-8-2014 at 08:32 PM

So, as of today I have an HQ NPW5 6.0m and I'm not sure what length lines I want on it.

First thing I did when I got it outside was to just attach it right to a pair of handles to see how that works. While I could definitely control the kite this way I couldn't get anywhere near the pull I'd need to.

So, next I decided to attach the lines it came with. Upon stretching them out I realized they seem to be much longer than my 20m lines. Once I got it into the air I got a huge grin as it pulled harder than I've ever gotten a kite to pull before. This line length might be perfect if it wasn't for the fact that I can't fly in huge open fields and if I brought the kite too far to either side I had to worry about crashing it. Thus, I'm pretty sure I'd like something shorter, but I'm not sure how much shorter.

Looking online the shortest quad line set I've found is 17.5m. This sounds like it could be a good size, but I'm curious why there aren't any shorter sizes out there. Also curious how I might be able to experiment with different sizes before ordering new lines. I'd also like to know what kinds of lines other people like with NPWs.

One idea I have would be to tie something like an alpine butterfly knot somewhere up my current long lines and use this to attach the handles closer to the kite. Is there any reason this might be a bad idea?

bigE123 - 12-8-2014 at 12:59 AM

Not sure how much NPW flying experience you have so I'll assume none: an NPW needs brake line tension at all times otherwise it will start to collapse, you need to hold the handles with the power lines above your index finger to allow you to control the brake line.

I usually test fly mine on 2m lines with no issues, then put 20m or 25m lines on after that, there is a trick for NPWs and that's to add a Z-bridle which connects the power line to the brake lines at the kite end, this keeps the brake tension on and allows you to fly with slacker brake lines.

The shorter the flying lines the smaller the window becomes, which is probably way you struggled trying direct to the handles.

bobalooie57 - 12-8-2014 at 06:18 AM

Due to the size of the beach I fly at, I use mostly NPW's on 30-35' lines, which I made up myself. I ordered a set of PKD handles with the adjustable brake line cleat from BigKidKites, and had Jeff make me some 50 foot lines(about 15M, they would have worked last year, but this year Lake Ontario levels are way up, making the beach only about 40' wide) As bigE123 says, the shorter the lines, the smaller the wind window, so I often find that wind I could use my 4.8M on 20M lines, will often require that I use my 7M with the 35' lines.
I have only buggied a few times flying right off the handles, wind was 30mph, gusting to 40+, and I was using the 2.4M. :o Didn't have GPS at the time, so I have no idea how fast I was going, but it was FAST!
I think that most commercial manafacturers use the 20-25M line length, and the flight of their foils are based on this. I have flown some foils on my shorty lines, and while they will fly, the tiny window combined with the quicker reaction time to the kite keeps me on my NPW's. I have too many obstacles to contend with, and a mistake with a foil is much more costly than with an NPW.

acampbell - 12-8-2014 at 07:59 AM

If you like, I have some leftover sheathing kits for repairing / shortening lines. Instructions are in Dutch but it's not hard to figure out. Just send me an address.

rofer - 12-8-2014 at 09:09 AM

I'd seen a little about how the brake line was important, but never heard about holding the handles differently. Going to try that out today.

I think part of my problem when flying right on the handles could be turbulence too, but the larger wind window definitely made a difference. I'm thinking somewhere between 10m-20m might be the sweet spot for me.

bobalooie57: So do you just have several sets of lines of different lengths or is there some trick to temporarily shortening lines? I feel like my alpine butterfly loop idea could work if I could place them equidistant, but that could prove pretty difficult. I'm also not sure how much I should worry about the loss in line strength that a knot adds.

acampbell: Definitely interested! U2U sent.

bobalooie57 - 12-8-2014 at 10:47 AM

I have linesets that came with foils I have bought, usually 20 or 25M, I bought a few sets of Vector 17.5M lines on here a while back, then I bought some bulk Spectra with some sleeving and made a few sets of my own. I'd be nervous about putting knots in my (unsleeved)lines, it might cause weakness. I had a line break one time and it only had a kink in it, no knot.

John Holgate - 12-8-2014 at 03:33 PM

Line length will make a HUGE difference to the power/size of the window you get from the kite. I usually fly either 20 or 25m, but a 10m or 15m set would be advantageous to have in restricted areas. See if you can make up or buy a 10m & 5m set - you can join them together when you have the room. Knots generally reduce line strength by half (depending on knot) and would tend to jam pretty hard on thin lines under tension (although the Alpine looks reasonable for not jamming - don't think I've ever tied that particular knot though). Even so, I would avoid the use knots in kite lines. Here's a vid of the Nasa Star 2 (which is based on the NPW design I think) on handles without the Z bridle...





And with the Z bridle installed...



rofer - 13-8-2014 at 07:29 AM

Going to have to give that a shot when it stops raining.
There's no reason this wouldn't work straight off the handles, right? Without any short lines flying right off the handles often ends up being my best option atm.

bigE123 - 13-8-2014 at 08:39 AM

Yes you could go straight off the handles but don't forget about where to hold the handles. I've test flown a few of my NPWs straight off the bridle points, it's not ideal as the window as very small but it will fly.

rofer - 13-8-2014 at 08:41 AM

Yeah, just want to be sure z-bridling won't somehow change that. Yesterday for the first time I actually got moving on my board with my NPW right off the bridle. Lots of fun until I managed to break a binding on my board.

kitemaker4 - 13-8-2014 at 12:05 PM

You can fly a nasa wing on any length line set or without on handles.

Susan (npw goddess)

Yup.....All lengths work....

skimtwashington - 13-8-2014 at 01:50 PM


Tight space go short....plenty of room go long.

Also.......... a NPW that feels overpowered on long lines may feel just right on shorter lines-as the power window is smaller- but also, wind may have less velocity flying it closer to the ground.

On Very short line or off the bridal (0-5 feet)...syncro' buggy ridin' :


High wind(30+ mph):

[img][/img]

Bladerunner - 13-8-2014 at 07:38 PM

You can buy some Qline and make a set of whatever size you this will suit your needs. I think a few of the retailors on here sell Qline by the foot? I like 2m lines with my NPW. Just long enough to create a bit of a window. Short enough you could haul in the kite and release it again while in motion when poaching back roads and passing under power lines.

riffclown - 13-8-2014 at 07:56 PM

Qline extensions could make excellent shortline sets

http://www.awindofchange.com/product/qpower-ext.html

soliver - 13-8-2014 at 07:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
You can buy some Qline and make a set of whatever size you this will suit your needs. I think a few of the retailors on here sell Qline buy the foot? I like 2m lines with my NPW. Just long enough to create a bit of a window. Short enough you could haul in the kite and release it again while in motion when poaching back roads and passing under power lines.


I really wanna get a longboard and do that

bobalooie57 - 14-8-2014 at 06:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by riffclown  
Qline extensions could make excellent shortline sets

http://www.awindofchange.com/product/qpower-ext.html



This is a great option, you could have a 20' lineset for $20.00! :o

ssayre - 14-8-2014 at 06:33 AM


Quote:

I really wanna get a longboard and do that



That's exactly what I want to try on some paved paths with short lines. Of course I need a longboard now.

rofer - 14-8-2014 at 07:15 AM

Until my board is fixed I'm going to be flying my NPW right off the handles with my inline skates. Assuming I can find a large enough paved area that is.