Looks like the success of the LEI spelt the death of the FB. soliver - 13-8-2014 at 07:53 PM
Bummer rtz - 13-8-2014 at 07:55 PM
My guess is the Quantum/Vapor situation.
They just released the Quantum now it's potentially going to be topped by a new PL release.
And I'd guess kite sales now(and the buggy scene) compared to when the economy was booming 2001-2008?
Ozone Little Devil, Samurai, Samurai 2, Fury, Haka, Cult. Different times was it? awindofchange - 13-8-2014 at 08:34 PM
I feel the issue is with the cost and the poor economy worldwide. That combined with the lack of organized racing where these kites really need to be
at. Even the Vapor suffers in sales because of it. It is hard for the average kite buggier to justify a Vapor or Quantum 2.5 meter kite running well
over 550.00 when you can purchase a Hornet or Octane for half that much and it includes lines and handles.
Over the last 4-5 years, sales of new kites has dwindled while the used kite sales tends to be growing faster than ever. Unlike toilet paper, kites
are not a die-hard necessity when it comes to splitting up a meager paycheck each week.
Hopefully when the economy does start to improve (not sure when that will ever be) sales of the more expensive and boutique style kites will start to
increase. I am not suggesting that the kiting industry is dying or anything like that, just that when it comes to expendable income, it is hard to
justify kites that require a premium to buy. Lower priced kites are a lot more appealing.
Still, very sad to see Ozone leave the fixed bridle market.
Will this be start of a trend...?
skimtwashington - 14-8-2014 at 06:49 AM
Naaahhhh!.....Don't think it will.....but I hope other folks like PL, HQ, Flexi don't stop making FB kites.
This of course pushes price points way up for buying any power kite from Ozone(prices for depower vs. FB).
This also may likely cut overall number of kite sales (quantity of kites sold) for Ozone. The higher prices(depower over foil) and MORE money
profited off each kite(profit margin being same-lets say), may or may not make up for any loss in number of their kites sold and their total yearly
net profit.
Going on the suggestion of 'poor economy worldwide'....I seem to come up with an opposite take here......
...... In a poor economy...why would you eliminate less expensive items (FB's) for some of your customers-who will then shop elsewhere?
Possible after their sales numbers come in over next year or two.....they may reconsider the FB cessation. Maybe not...
Those that are depower fliers..it won't matter.
Those that are FB fliers it will mean they will shop elsewhere.
Those open to either FB or depower( a newer or novice flier), BUT- with limited cash- may not afford (new anyways) depower and thus look elsewhere to
get a FB kite or quiver.
bigE123 - 14-8-2014 at 07:09 AM
Or perhaps they have seen the light and will start doing single skin rather than foils?MeatÐriver - 14-8-2014 at 09:43 AM
In one of Peter Lynn's monthly newsletters a while back(the one about the skinn), he did mention that another large kite company was in developmental
stages of a new single skin. With Ozone's success in the XXLite glider it makes sense that they just might be that large kite company that was
referred to. Which I find exciting. I'd love to see something with some ultimate light wind capabilities with a cost less that the $3k 18m chrono.bigE123 - 14-8-2014 at 11:25 AM
You would think that they would be candidates but I think there is a big shake up coming along, the PEAK has hit the market, PL dabbled with the SKIN,
but I'm sure the wraps will be taken off from other companies very soon PL included. I don't think it's a matter of not doing fb any more, more the
fact of what is in the pipe-line and the impact it will make to what we now perceive as "the norm" the single skin I have have just made, is tbh the
best kite I have flown, very light, stable, heaps of smooth power and will equal if not better most foils. WELDNGOD - 14-8-2014 at 01:39 PM
I hope PKD never stops making FBs. If they do, when mine are all dead and gone, I'll quit kiting.:oriffclown - 14-8-2014 at 03:00 PM
I feel the same about HQ. Bladerunner - 14-8-2014 at 04:02 PM
Ozone is selling TONS of kites to the kiteboard and snowkite racing scene. I'm sure that plays into it. Much MUCH bigger market.
If PKD stopped making FB they would be out of business. Isn't that all they do ? WELDNGOD - 14-8-2014 at 04:04 PM
No, they just came out w/ a depower kite not long ago, if I'm not mistaken. WELDNGOD - 14-8-2014 at 04:10 PM
I found this link on a thread in another forum. It looks like the end of ozone fixed bridle.
That's HUGE! :o Unexpected too given that Ozone was on a roll with the Quantum and Octane, both of which are really good kites and the latter of which
I greatly enjoyed for the past year before getting the Access.
The good news is that I haven't sold my FB kites yet, so maybe now with the upcoming inevitable shortage of Ozone FB's I can 'reconsider their value'
when I do... :evil:skimtwashington - 16-8-2014 at 08:58 AM
FB foil or single skin...doesn't matter to me....... as long as there are quick put up FB performance kites.
The Depow market is huge and bigger than FB( I'm told)....But if there are lots of sellers....
A smaller mkt. w/ fewer sellers might be better for sales.
USA_Eli_A - 16-8-2014 at 03:04 PM
It's all going to be good. It's been debated before. FB market is diluted by depower. Though Ozone is limiting their FB production, you can still
get them for a short while longer.
THE GOOD NEWS IS! Ozone has build some smaller closed celled depower race kite protos.
One door shuts. Another door opens. Welcome the future. ice kiter - 20-8-2014 at 01:39 AM
Well as the place is running out for the buggy I am not surprised .
The selling decreases much sure from these.
Nobody of my friends bought fb kite - for landkiting - but more one of depower kite in this year . And whos can ride on hobby/sport airport usually
are from tube or flysurfer, .
There is the grass good quality...
nobody want play with closed/together fallen and out turned duvet.
Here aren't often the real static wind.
In winter time on ice... the better place
(but that would interest how many percent of buggys seaside and how many pampas rider)jellis - 20-8-2014 at 11:50 AM
And then along comes the JOJO RX. 6 8 and10 meter should be in my hands soon. Hope to get them in time for buggiers to try at SOBB this year.Sier_Pinski - 20-8-2014 at 08:17 PM
A bit off-topic, but here's the design of Ozone's 2015 FB trainer kite that they kept. It's likely that the rest of their snow kites will follow the
same simplistic design trend as the Chrono with the single white wingtip.
Don't like the single wingtip design - though speaking of JOJO, its a lot like what they use to do on most of their kites.
I like symmetrical color designs or contrast colors across the full length of the leading or trailing edge (maybe blended into the wing tips
I was disappointed with the new Montana too. To me, when a kite is entirely one color on the front and back it just seems cheap. I know its no
reflection of quality but it just strikes me as a kite that cut cost and went with an ultra simplistic graphic, cutting and sewing design.Feyd - 21-8-2014 at 10:15 AM
I'm curious.
Having abandoned FB kites about 11 yrs. ago I've never understood the fascination with FB beyond the raw power they generate and the precise sterring.
It really amazes me that the manufactures haven't dumped their FB lines sooner. As Eli stated the FB market is being diluted by depows. I'm not
sure I agree as here where I live there is no FB market.
We have a few FB trainers that we use to teach with and last season they almost didn't get used once. We have 3m Apexs that can do the same job but
also teach the student how to use a kite set up that they will likely used on their own. Going from fixed bridle trainers to depows can be
frustrating for some students.
So my question here, as it seems most of the members on this forum are still flying FB, is why? I still have a few FB that I play with on occasion.
I like the power per sq.M but I have no interest in riding them any distance where I may need to switch wings. I like being able to stay on the same
kite all day no matter what the conditions. Most depows allow this, some much better than others. Especially the most recent designs.
Mind you, I'm not making a dig here, I'm seriously wondering. ssayre - 21-8-2014 at 10:53 AM
I like my fb kites for quick easy set up for short sessions. I keep them and the buggy in my truck. When I have a few minutes to spare I can fly
static for exercise or break out the buggy for an hour or so. I think it's handy to not have to bother with the harness if I don't want to. The only
depower I've had is the venom and while it was a fantastic kite and easy to use once it was flying, I didn't like that it took up so much room in my
truck and if there were a lot of lulls, relaunching was a pain. For the buggy, depower just seemed more trouble than it was worth. If I get another
depower, the only one I'm considering is the Peak because it looks as user friendly as it gets. I've got some NS2's coming that I'm anxious to try
out if they ever get here.BeamerBob - 21-8-2014 at 11:36 AM
I like things about both type kites. When a fb kite is tuned and in the correct wind speed, it is a thing of beauty to fly and be powered by. In
variable winds, a fb kite is in and out of it's power zone, while a depower kite is usually less affected by the winds. I've had runs over 60 mph
with 6 different kites. A 2.7m Vapor, 2.5m Uturn Butane, Montana VII 7m, Montana VIII 8m, HQ Ignition LEI 5m (current PB of 65.6) and PL Phantom II
9m. The LEI promised the most depower, but at those speeds, the Ignition needed the backline pressure to support the kite. So in the most extreme
conditions, there essentially is no depower to be had, and if you tune the kite to provide depower in those conditions, you don't have much steering
control at launch and lower speeds. I'm not comfortable making changes to the trim strap while sliding at over 60 mph so adopted the scheme to run
downwind to slow down and gain the ability to turn upwind to slow down.
I've envisioned my quest for 70 mph and can see it working out with both a fixed bridle and a depower kite. The fixed bridle will work by being
grossly overpowered and cutting the kite loose at the end of the run. I'm not entirely happy with that scenario since it took about 5 runs to get my
PB back in May. At least the last 2 world records were concluded by disengaging from the kite at the end of the run though, so at some level it
becomes the only way to stop.
Redsky from UK lent me a kite that could be the ticket to controlled power at high speeds. It is the Genetrix Hydra 7m. I got it right as the summer
heat took over here in the desert so I haven't gotten to run with it yet. This kite is fully supported by a bridle across the leading edge tube as
well as the full length of the struts. I'm anxious to have a day of 25-30 mph with it to become one with it.
All in all, I tend to be more of a depower guy but continue to choose fb days to keep sharp with them as well. The demise of the fb kite would not be
a huge impediment to me, but I hope they continue to be developed and marketed.lunchbox - 21-8-2014 at 09:16 PM
Quote:
So my question here, as it seems most of the members on this forum are still flying FB, is why?
I have the luxury to kite during my lunch hour. Granted, I only get an hour and the drive to and from takes about 20mins on average which leaves me
very little time to actually kite. So for me quick set up is key.
I also buggy and board in a very small area (about 150 yds). In the buggy, I like to get up to speed and go as fast as possible in that short
distance. Nothing that I've used, gets me going as quickly as a race kite.
I also kite in some extremely light winds with lulls and pockets of dead air. In order to combat these scenarios, I need to use the smallest kite
sizes so I can whip the kite around and get out of the those pockets and keep the kite flying. With that, I need a kite that gives me the most power
per square meter.
In addition, I also love FB's because I feel safer with them (in my conditions) because if I am hit with an expected gust, I can just let go a hell of
a lot faster than I can pull a quick release.
...and finally, there's something really beautiful about a machine that is designed so perfectly and that can get so much power from so little
wind...some of these FB's (Blades and Vapors in particularly), are works of art in design and function. ssayre - 22-8-2014 at 04:27 AM
Lunchbox, do you still have the voltage? I've always wanted to try one of those.3shot - 22-8-2014 at 05:41 AM
Pretty much agree with lunchbox. FB is easier and quicker to fly. I also ride in some tight spots and really need the ability to whip a kite around. I
feel the FB gives more feedback in the buggy as well.
IMHOlunchbox - 22-8-2014 at 06:42 AM
Quote:
Lunchbox, do you still have the voltage? I've always wanted to try one of those.
Yep...still got the 6.5!
I was a little reluctant when I first bought it. I wasn't a big fan of the PL Twister (granted, I had the first edition and a 7m), I thought the
Twister was two slow to redirect and I didn't get the lift I was expecting.
Well, I didn't have any of those issues with the Voltage. It is very quick through the window, very powerful and very lifty. I actually like it better
than my Blade IV.
I'm actually thinking of buying an 8.5m, but I have my Blade VIP so I thought probably get my wife something nice instead '
If you have a chance, definitely test drive one.
Now, the only bad thing I've found is that it isn't as stable as the Blade IV. Granted, I kite inland in some very light, lully wind with lots of
pockets of dead air so this probably wouldn't be a problem at the beach. It's not a major problem, you just have to be a little more proactive on the
breaks. Could be the price you pay for the speed through the window but I would like to see PL make some slight adjustments in this area if they
decide to come out with a Voltage 2.
That is interesting. Many times I'd be unable to adjust the trim because the depower line would be locked in place because it's under so much
tension. The doubling would double my power to release the line from the cleat. If I was making a change like that, I could add in more depower
range so I can have control at launch and slow speeds and have some depower range left when things go ballistic.
I don't have much of an issue with too much line tension to actuate the cleat. My biggest problem is having to reach up to do it and shifting my
weight, sometimes slightly disengaging my edge of briefly losing balance while reaching. Best case I miss a good gust that would give me more speed,
worse case I get yarded.
IN some of the course races I race riders from Europe with race bar set ups. I couldn't imagine having all that extra line flopping around at speed
but then again there is value for me in the set up. this year I will give it a try and see how it goes.
:P
'