Power Kite Forum

Stainless Fasteners

abkayak - 5-9-2014 at 09:07 AM

i'd like to replace just about all the nuts and bolts on everything i ride....anyone got a good source for some proper hardware? would love to buy boxs w/ 25ct or such

vaultingbassist - 5-9-2014 at 09:12 AM

McMaster-Carr is pretty good for fasteners, I think. If you want to go to a store Fastenal works too. These are the two that immediately pop into my head as supplying bulk hardware.

BEC - 5-9-2014 at 09:12 AM

Unless you are by salt water all the time I would stay clear of the SS for a couple reasons....
1. they are usually hard to find and buy (not in bulk)
2. they can bind up when fastening or unfastening....(seizing I think is the correct term)
3. they cost a ton...

If you still want to purchase your best bet in finding all the sizes you need in what ever metal you prefer with one stop shopping and shipping is www.McMasterCarr.com

I've gone to a stonger grade steel for bolts and use nuts with the nylon washers built in....they have lasted years...without really rusting. (wipe then with oil or WD40) every now and again....good to go....

Hope this helps.

abkayak - 5-9-2014 at 09:38 AM

yes only ride by salt water...only want stainless and nylocks....never went to a fastenal will look into it..thanks

soliver - 5-9-2014 at 09:58 AM

I was just at Fastenal yesterday buying stuff for my bug... they want you to buy in bulk (i.e. bag of 20 pieces that costs 5x as much as you want to spend) or you buy 2-5 pieces in baggies like at Home Depot and the price goes up significantly per piece. For instance, since they didn't have the size stainless I wanted, I went for Grade-8 (same reasons as BEC) and i bought 4x 7/16' x 2.5" bolts, and 4 grade-8 nylock nuts and 8 washers and spent nearly $20, and felt kinda ripped off. I got other stuff at a hardware store.

I recommend you go to your local privately owned hardware store (like ACE or TruValue) where they have bins of all the singleton stuff you might need... unless you're buying Metric stainless, then you will have to buy at a specialty place like mentioned above. Another option is to check Amazon,... you'd be surprised at what you'll find. Mcmaster-Carr works, but also Grainger

All said, be prepared to spend more than you expect. I went out to replace ALL of my hardware for my buggy yesterday expecting to spend between $12 and $20 and ended up only buying half what i needed and spending around $23.

hywelmartin - 5-9-2014 at 10:27 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BEC  
Unless you are by salt water all the time I would stay clear of the SS for a couple reasons....
1. they are usually hard to find and buy (not in bulk)
2. they can bind up when fastening or unfastening....(seizing I think is the correct term)
3. they cost a ton...

If you still want to purchase your best bet in finding all the sizes you need in what ever metal you prefer with one stop shopping and shipping is www.McMasterCarr.com

I've gone to a stonger grade steel for bolts and use nuts with the nylon washers built in....they have lasted years...without really rusting. (wipe then with oil or WD40) every now and again....good to go....

Hope this helps.


I agree.
Why:
If you frequently use them(loosen and fastening) they wear out pretty fast.
The stainless are weaker. And they harden during deformation=doesn’t work as a spring.
Its harder to tighten them right. You would have to use at moment wrench(or what it's called).

Nylock nuts are supposed to only be used once, use this type instead http://www.swebolt.se/se/nord-lock.html try running the link in google translate swedish to US.

NEVER EVER use this type of washer... http://www.esska.se/esska_se/bilder/hauptbilder_neu/92_verbi...

ssayre - 5-9-2014 at 11:10 AM

I found my stainless nylocks for the buggy at menards. They do have some metric sizes.

WELDNGOD - 5-9-2014 at 02:52 PM

TWO WORDS ...... Lowes and anti -seize
I have been using stainless hardware for years. I re-use locknuts over and over ,never had one come off ,not once. You ALWAYS use anti-seize on stainless or it may gall and weld itself to the bolt. And it is NOT harder to tighten stainless ,they work just like other nuts and bolts. My custom buggies still have the same hardware as when they were built (with the exception of one, that I forgot to anti-seize) . Oh yeah, the materials most buggies are made from is a lot thinner than the hardware that holds it together. And would deform , tear or shear long before the bolt gave up the ghost.
We aren't building a nuclear reactor folks ! :)

hiaguy - 5-9-2014 at 03:06 PM

Listen to Weldngod.
This thread from 2012:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=21810#pid21...
Now, a little anti-seize and no problems. It's like: wax on, wax off. And nothing loosens up using stainless nylok nuts.

...39...

ssayre - 5-9-2014 at 09:30 PM

So if I use anti-seize, the nylocks will still prevent the nut from loosening? Just want to make sure before I try it. The nuts that came standard with my pl bug were just standard nuts and were constantly loosening. The nylocks have solved that problem but I would want to avoid future seizing.

WELDNGOD - 6-9-2014 at 05:36 AM

Anti-seize only stops galling. The nylon keeps them from coming off.

soliver - 6-9-2014 at 05:40 AM

I'm not familiar with Anti-sieze, but I can tell you that you can use nylocks more than once,... I've NEVER heard that they are one time use only.

Sean, it sounds like the Anti-sieze just prevents the nut from welding itself to the bolt (which I've heard can be an issue with stainless). Sounds like folks are saying that nylocks still do their job with it just fine.

I'm gonna check out Lowes next time, thanks for the advice WG.

TEDWESLEY - 6-9-2014 at 06:45 AM

Listen to WELDNGOD , use antseize, do not over torque as stainless is softer than carbon steel. For
axle bolts, go with grade 8 carbon steel. Nylock nuts are fine to reuse with our usage, for an airplane
or other critical function not so much. I should mention my employer www.hamiltonmarine.com as
a source for stainless steel fasteners of the non metric variety.

hywelmartin - 6-9-2014 at 12:06 PM

I might be damaged from my workplace, and my education...

I never sad that nylock only works ones, they wear and don’t work as good as the first time after reuse, and at some point they don’t lock at all.

In a correct dimensioned screw joint, there wouldn’t be necessary with nylock(if the right moment has been used). But it doesn’t seems to be the case in buggs (according to ssayre and WELDNGOD ). I haven’t seen a bought one up close....

I can imagine that the problems area in a Pl or flexi bugg is, down-tube to side-rails and side-rails to back axle.



ssayre - 6-9-2014 at 12:14 PM

Bumpy fields is what causes the nuts to loosen. Nylocks have solved my problem. I' haven't noticed any problems with seizing yet, but apparently that can be a problem. There are 4 bolts that pose a problem on the pl bug. 2 on the side rails, 1 that bolts the fork to downtube, and 1 on the front axle bolt. I'm aware that nylocks can be reused, I just wasn't sure if the anti-seize could still cause the nylocks to loosen. Apparently that's not a problem based on others posts. Thanks.

WELDNGOD - 6-9-2014 at 03:10 PM

I have seen BRAND NEW stainless hardware seize . If it starts to feel tight at all you're screwed (pun not intended),it is that Quick ! In the shipyards, it is a standard to put anti-seize on SS hardware ,or your boss will have your butt. And I don't know why people think stainless is soft. You ever try to drill broken off stainless hardware out of some steel? Or ,polish a stainless buggy? Definitely NOT soft:no:

hywelmartin - 7-9-2014 at 03:02 AM

SS harden during deformation, so if(when) a fastener snap the breaking surface has hardened, that's why it is so difficult to drill out SS...
Even when you drill the metal can get hardened due to vibration( use short drills and cutting fuids).

SS has much different characteristic compared to carbon steel, it doesn't elongate as much before breaking. And therefore a screw join with SS fastener is harder to tighten.


What anti-seize do you use? Metal-free, nickel-based or any other??

WELDNGOD - 7-9-2014 at 01:51 PM

copper/molybdenum anti-seize unless being used on aluminum,then we use the aluminum grade.