Power Kite Forum

Closed-cell kite for land?

rofer - 16-9-2014 at 06:13 PM

Are there any advantages to using a closed-cell kite on land as opposed to an open-cell kite?

I know there are plenty of disadvantages such as them being heavier, taking up more space, being easier to damage, etc...

Wondering if having the closed cells might provide some advantages too. Maybe stuff like not losing it's shape in lulls.

B-Roc - 16-9-2014 at 06:20 PM

I know they have their fans but I'm not one of them. I had a 6m Pulse 2. Yes, it did hold its shape better in lulls and it was easily hot launched but, IMO, closed cell kites are a major pain when trying to pack up or land and secure in their upper wind limit. The P2 regularly popped my ground stake leaving me running down the beach to catch it or stuck holding the kite while it bounced around like mad with a lot of power because I couldn't stake it out and there were no lulls coming.

As I said, they have their fans and some advantages but I'm not one of their fans and found they had more cons than pros for me.

shehatesmyhobbies - 16-9-2014 at 06:54 PM

I actually do like and generally fly my closed cell kites inland. My home winds are not real clean and can get real lumpy, so it's a good fit for me. Yea it takes a little more wind to get them in the air, but IMO very much worth it. I have pretty much only flown my phantoms since I started flying them a few years ago. I will pull out the viper or a reactor II once in a while but love my phantoms. If the winds are marginal they can be a bear to get going properly, but usually I won't even leave the house if I think it's going to be difficult to fly them. But when powered up, nothing but a blast!

Feyd - 17-9-2014 at 06:18 AM

There's a little bit of a learning curve but worth it in the end. As B-Roc said, the biggest pita is when they are on the ground and the wind is out of hand and you're trying to pack up. But that too just takes some practice and in time is no more difficult than anything else.

Most of the kiters I ride with are on closed cells either Arcs, HQ Matrixx or FLysurfers. They work really well in the gusty and rotors.

BeamerBob - 17-9-2014 at 10:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rofer  
Are there any advantages to using a closed-cell kite on land as opposed to an open-cell kite?

I know there are plenty of disadvantages such as them being heavier, taking up more space, being easier to damage, etc...

Wondering if having the closed cells might provide some advantages too. Maybe stuff like not losing it's shape in lulls.


I'm not sure your perceived cons are accurate. Being heavier would have to be marginal at best. Taking up more space? Not sure the little bit of extra fabric for socks or whatever would be noticeable. How would being closed cell make the kite easier to damage?

indigo_wolf - 17-9-2014 at 10:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
Quote: Originally posted by rofer  
I know there are plenty of disadvantages such as them being heavier, taking up more space, being easier to damage, etc...


How would being closed cell make the kite easier to damage?


Inability to reduce internal cell pressure fast enough during a hard crash resulting in failure of edge seams or internal cell walls.

Led to the inclusion of blow out valves in Flysurfers, which are closed during normal operation, but engage during rapid increases in internal cell pressure (i.e. crash).

Not included in some of Flysurfer's higher performance sails where they were looking to reduce weight.

ATB,
Sam

rofer - 17-9-2014 at 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  

I'm not sure your perceived cons are accurate.

Neither am I, that's why I asked. The idea they damaged more easily was from reading about stuff like indigo_wolf just explained. Didn't realize Flysurfers has blow-out valves though. Anyone know how well they work?

indigo_wolf - 17-9-2014 at 02:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by rofer  
Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  

I'm not sure your perceived cons are accurate.

Neither am I, that's why I asked. The idea they damaged more easily was from reading about stuff like indigo_wolf just explained. Didn't realize Flysurfers has blow-out valves though. Anyone know how well they work?


Well enough that Flysurfer demoed intentional full speed crashs done repeatedly on concrete/asphalt.

Some Ozones also have blow out valves to handle high speed crashes on hardpacked ice/snow even though they are open cell foils.

ATB,
Sam

canuck - 17-9-2014 at 09:36 PM

I am a fan of using closed cell kites for snowkiting. My open cell kites do not have mesh on the air inlets and when the kite ends up on the leading edge it eats snow.

rofer - 17-9-2014 at 09:43 PM

Huh, hadn't even considered snow getting in the kites could be a problem. Can't wait until that's something I have to worry about.