robinsonpr - 25-10-2014 at 02:02 AM
Hi all from the UK! This is my first post and I'm looking for some advice on buying a new kite, probably a depower.
Here's my background. At 43 I'm not a youngster. I weigh 170Ib and am in fairly good shape. I've been flying various kites including power kites for
10 years, so I'm not a total newb, but I feel like one! I own at the moment (in order of purchase)
- Airush 3m trainer on a bar
- PL Venom I 13m
- Mystic warrior Harness
- Landboard Kheo Flyer
- PL Synergy 15m (recent purchase)
- PL Twister III 3.0m (recent purchase)
I started out 10 or so years ago with the intention of learning to kitesurf on water. As a snowboarder and wakeboarder I did OK and got waterstarting
quickly. I was on school LEI gear. But I could only learn on vacation as the conditions here in the UK are horrible for beginners (cold and choppy
water).
So I thought I'd try landboarding. I liked the sound of the Arcs for stability, inland flying and potential to use on water too. So got the 13m
venom. Nice, but never really made it to landboard with it. Long story short I had a family.
Now I'm wanting to get going again. I saw the Synergy come up used and couldn't resist it, but I took it out to try in not ideal conditions...10mph
but gusting to 15 and sometimes dropping to 5 mph. Wasn't on my board, just wanted to fly the thing, but struggled in the wind. Ended up with some
horrible behavior at zenith, then dropping back into the window, getting dragged quite fast, repeat until broken thumb. Ouch.
Maybe it was my skills as a pilot (or lack of) or maybe it was mainly poor wind. Probably both. But it scared the cr-p outta me.
My conditions are not great... inland, variable. Probably average 10mph but gusting to 15 and dropping lower. My intention at this stage is to be
able to cruise. I don't ever see myself getting big air and doing tricks.
So I thought I'd go back to basics, and got a small fixed bridle foil...the twister. It's ok, obviously much more manageable. But I think I've
quickly outgrown it. I'm throwing it around fine, doing long scuds on grass, and have had a few fairly good runs back and forth on my board. Just
holding handles, no strop and harness. But I'm obviously very underpowered and the wind has to be just right to be able to board at all. stay Upwind
no chance. I'm scared to try the Arcs after my broken thumb with the Synergy, even the 13m venom seems huge to me.
I've been toying with the idea of getting a smallish depower foil. Something like HQ Apex 8.0m. Or maybe an Ozone Access. Or maybe PL Lynx. Does
this sound like a good plan? Considered another arc, but a small one, just can't afford one brand new and they rarely come up for sale here in the
UK.
What size depower foil would my v13 compare to in terms of raw power? I obviously don't want too much crossover. My feeling is a 6m depower foil
will be a bit small?
What do you guys think? How do those 3 depowers I mentioned measure up to each other? The Access is a bit out of my price range though. Not been
able to find many opinions of the lynx. Is the lynx more on the side of stability (like the Access) or performance (like the frenzy)? Because I
think I should go stability rather than performance with my current skill level and experience.
Filling, launching and landing the Arcs is never fun, so I'm also thinking the 8m depower foil will be MUCH easier in this respect. Am I right in
thinking that?
Am I likely to quickly outgrow an 8m depower in the wind I've described?
I read that the Apex has a really long throw which makes the depower strap hard to reach. Is that true of the IV? I'm not a tall guy (5'8) so that
might be a consideration.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted you guys to have all my background! Appreciateany iinput and advice!!
BigMikesKites - 25-10-2014 at 04:10 AM
I think you are on the right track, though that Synergy is a dream kite for most. Its hard to put the comparison side by side as all these kites
have different behaviors in their own right. but the closed cell Synergy and the arc shape drops its 'power if you will' to probably close to a 10 or
11m open cell DePower kite. In General. not all DePowers are the same and have the same pull. But you get the idea.
For what you are looking at wind wise, below the 10 mph you probably need a 11m or larger and winds above that scaling up the 9m then 7m as things
get windier. So an 8m is right in the middle of things. The smaller you will become more comfortable with quicker. But be left stranded on
lighter wind days. But keep with it until you are ready for the larger kite. The smaller kite you will never outgrow...you will just use it in
higher winds.
ssayre - 25-10-2014 at 07:16 AM
I'm 40 and just started landboarding. I surrendered entirely to my inland wind and bought nasa star 2 kites. So far they have worked very well for
the buggy and the landboard. They are not kites to jump with but they do provide consistent pull to keep you moving in crappy wind and never fold up
in a lull due to their single skin design. The other kites that get great reviews for gusty inland wind is a Flysurfer Peak. I've not flown one so I
don't have first hand knowledge yet.
Knock on wood the nasa wings havn't broken any of my bones yet. 
Bladerunner - 25-10-2014 at 10:32 AM
I agree. You may want to look at Nasa wings for those conditions. They new Nasa Star kites are sweet. They have a form of depower. Not the traditional
depower but effective.
I am one of the folks who loves the Synergy. I consider my 15m to be my most enjoyable kite but we have pretty smooth winds. I think maybe your flying
style is causing issues ? Arcs thrive on motion. That said, they need about 10kt winds to fly. If your wind is dropping to 5 they will need to be
flown hard through those lulls.
ssayre - 25-10-2014 at 11:39 AM
One thing that I have found that is key no matter what kite you are using is to find the smoothest field you can find. I have tried a few of my
favorite spots that look smooth enough and well maintained but they are not. I only have 1 grass spot that is smooth enough for the landboard and it
is a row of well maintained soccer fields. The only other spots I use for landboard are paved which work great with much less wind and danger. Today
I used the 7 meter in about 9 mph winds on asphalt and I could go back and forth endlessly and not lose any ground. I tried the grass field adjoining
the paved area and made it about 100' before stopping and frustration set in.
robinsonpr - 25-10-2014 at 12:44 PM
Thanks for the input so far guys!
So those Nasa Star 2 wings look different! Doesn't look like there are any dealers doing them in the UK, probably explains why I've never seen one.
The Flysurfer Peak looks interesting too, I hadn't seen that. Does that depower like a depower foil? I read that the 6m Peak is comparable to a
10-11m foil and the 9m Peak similar to a 15m foil. Haven't been able to find many reviews on it though.
Bladerunner I'm sure my flying style was the cause of my bad experience with the Synergy. I was scared of it. Scared to move it around too much as it
was my first time with it and didn't know how much power to expect. Of course motion equals more power so I tried to NOT let it fly too much! Also i
was just static. Maybe it's not a good idea to fly arcs static?
I knew the Synergy is a great kite which is why I didn't pass on the opportunity to buy it even though I'm not ready for it yet.
It wouldn't even sit at the zenith though, wind was probably just not quite enough for it.
So I think I'm looking for something to fill the gap between my 3m twister and 13m venom. Was looking like the 8m HQ Apex or PL Lynx (but not sure
about the 7m or 9m in the Lynx!?)
The Flysurfer Peak has #@%$#!ed my curiosity now though.
Too many options!!
Bladerunner - 26-10-2014 at 09:29 AM
I understand the folks at Born kites http://www.born-kite.de/ are very accommodating. I am sure they will ship you one. They will definitely shine in your janky winds.
The Peak performs like a typical depower kite and has had great feedback as a beginner kite that you won't grow out of.
Both of these kites will please you as far as ease of set up / pack up and both will give you an advantage in janky winds.
I am not sure about the difference in cost but if I was looking at the 2, I would go for the Peak. It is a more technical kite and handles in a
similar manor to your arcs. Transitioning between the 2 will be easier than going Nasa to Arc.
Is it possible that you had your trim strap set to powered up / open / long ? Could be why you couldn't get the kite to zenith. Even flying static, if
my arc won't auto zenith I have to fly it hard or put it away.
robinsonpr - 26-10-2014 at 09:53 AM
When I was flying the Synergy I definitely had the trim strap pulled all the way in. It's not that it wouldn't get to the zenith, it just wouldn't
sit there. Probably as the wind wasn't quite enough. And then now and again the wind would pick up for a spell and a couple of times it hit when
the kite had dropped back into the power zone.I could see it coming so dropped to a crouch and just had a few long slides. Looking back I should have
bailed at that point but I kept going and eventually ended up breaking my thumb.
I've been looking more at the Peak and it does look very nice. I guess I would probably be best off with the 6m. Price isn't too bad either. and
the 6 is apparently Orange now not the girly pink!
It's either that or an 8m Apex IV I think at this stage, unless something else comes up 2nd hand.
Is the Peak likely to handle bad wind better than something like an Apex/Access/Lynx?
Other option I guess is another arc, but a small one. I can't afford one new though, I'd have to wait and see if one comes up 2nd hand. Think it
would be worth considering? Given I've got a V13 would a 6m arc fit the bill if one came up or would need more like a 9? Or would the Peak be better
all round considering the easier setup and landing?
Cheers,
Paul
robinsonpr - 26-10-2014 at 12:28 PM
One more thing I wanted to ask...am I right in thinking the Peak doesn't have a clam cleat/trim strap adjuster on the power lines for power
adjustment? So you'd need to fly with the bar constantly pulled in a little for some power? And with the bar pushed all the way out that's fully
depowered? I read about the touring/freestyle setting on the center throw but it doesn't sound like you'd be adjusting that mid flight.
Makes me think about my arcs...I always tended to adjust the trim strap so I was comfortable with the power and then just fly with the bar fully out
resting against the stopper. I guess like this there's no immediate depower available at the bar, so maybe one of the things I've been doing wrong
with the Arcs?