Power Kite Forum - Harness - Ozone Access Base vs SB?

Harness - Ozone Access Base vs SB?

robinsonpr - 4-11-2014 at 07:25 AM

Hi all I've got a Mystic Warrior waist/seat harness which I got when I was doing some lessons on water. I've been using it now I've started to learn how to landboard. It's OK, but not ideal. Very big and bulky, and because the kite is quite high as I'm just getting started it's riding up, even with the leg straps in (the spreader bar isn't attached to the leg straps).

I've been looking at a few harnesses that people recommend and the Ozone Access seem quite popular.

Thing is there's 2 flavours of them. The "Base" which just has a webbing loop to attach the chicken loop to:

And the "SB" which has a spreader bar:

I was going to get the one with the spreader bar until I realised my supplier is out of stock of those at the moment. I could probably get one elsewhere but in the meantime I was looking at the Base version and there are a few things about it that I really like:

1. Less bulk to carry around
2. No big spreader pad might mean I can bend over to tie my shoelaces! I'm not a big lad but when I've got my Mystic harness on and done up tight it's a real struggle to bend over.
3. $20 cheaper (though cost doesn't really come into it)
4. No spreader bar to pull upwards when kite is high.
5. Is this a better option if I ever buggy?

And the negatives of the Base I can think of:

i) Can't just hook in and go. Need to faff around getting the chicken loop through the webbing (or I guess could put a carabiner through the webbing and then just snap the chicken loop into that?)
ii) Can't do unhooked tricks

I have no intention of EVER doing unhooked stuff, I'm way too old getting into this. I'll be very happy to cruise around on my board. May get a buggy at some point.

Anyone had experience of both that could offer some advice?

cheezycheese - 4-11-2014 at 08:30 AM

I personally am not a fan of the ozone harness (I might be the only one). If you are on the slim side I found it difficult to properly cinch the waist straps for a proper fit. I could never get it tight enough, and I'm not too slim by any means. I always feel like my pants are falling off when I wear mine. I also find the leg straps kind of annoying to get in and out of. I think the HQ or Peter Lynn harnesses are a bit more practical. But again I might be the only person who feels that way about the Ozone harness. The upside though is it will easily fit over snow pants.

DAKITEZ - 4-11-2014 at 08:33 AM

The problem with those harnesses is simple ... look at the picture. Does that look comfortable between your legs? Especially when the kite is pulling up! They work and do the job well but simply not very comfortable.

If your looking for a seat harness and may get into a buggy the peter lynn divine is your best option in my opinion. It has leg straps to keep the harness from riding up but they do not go between your legs. So you stay comfortable.

ssayre - 4-11-2014 at 09:10 AM

Cheezy, you are not the only one. I have the ozone sb harness and I think it's a piece of garbage. I thought I was the only one. However, I do see a lot of videos of experienced riders using them so maybe it's just us.

robinsonpr - 4-11-2014 at 09:18 AM

Cheezy I'm not a beanpole, about a 32 inch waist.

And ha Dakitez no it doesn't look too comfy around the crown jewels!!!

So a few votes against the Ozone harness already, so much for my first round of research

How about a regular climbing harness? With something like a carabiner to hook into? Do any of you guys go that route?

One thing that really annoys me about my Mystic waist harness is having the big spreader pad on my gut, and when it's done up tight I can barely reach my feet so is pretty restrictive. That's why a climbing harness or the Ozone Access Base seemed attractive, because I'd be able to move some.

vaultingbassist - 4-11-2014 at 09:33 AM

Still a beginner myself, but I've used my climbing harness a couple of times and didn't find it that uncomfortable - however I'm used to it having climbed in it (and since I wasn't a great climber I spent plenty of time just hanging in it lol). My plan is to pick up an actual kiting harness once I get into the water, but for now it seems to work fine. Caveat: have no idea what it will be like with bar. I rigged a quick release shackle and a strop line for my handles. Hopefully I'll be able to hook in with my new Apex soon.

Might not be an expensive experiment either, I'd imagine a used climbing harness is pretty cheap (FYI - NEVER climb in a used harness unless you've inspected the crap out of it and know what to look for).

Feyd - 4-11-2014 at 04:17 PM

We use the Ozone SB harness for our students. The one size fits and low profile makes it an easy option for our needs. It is also the most common harness we sell with the Flysurfer Peak owners.

I would agree that the non-SB (spreader bar) option is probably not very comfortable, more so than a climbing harness but still not as good as the SB version.

The SB is extremely comfortable. As a huge proponent of the Dakine Fusion series I initially felt that the Ozone SB was not a viable option for most of my personal needs. But over the course of the last winter I found it very good for touring and general riding. For speed sessions and really high wind days my Dakine is a better option but for most riders I imagine the Ozone SB is a perfectly good choice.

There have been some students that are on the thinner side that if we were operating in a summer environment and they didn't have snow gear on they would have had a hard time filling the harness effectively. But have had no issues with fit.

There is a certain level of "puzzle work" when it comes to putting the harness on. With practice it's a lot easier but initially the leg loops can twist and it gets a little ridiculous sometimes if you think too hard about it.

I think for the money it's a decent harness. If you want to compare it to the HQ, or Dakine or basically any other seat harness it's not even close to the same thing in my opinion. Different animal. Geared more toward comfort than performance. You can ski down in it after you've kited up and you don't even notice it on you.

Like skiing naked. :D

robinsonpr - 4-11-2014 at 04:29 PM

Gah was hoping the non spreader bar version was gonna get some love as that's the one in stock and I really liked the idea of not having the bulk of a spreader bar on my waist. What is it that makes it not as comfortable? The way the pull through the loop pulls the straps?

erratic winds - 4-11-2014 at 05:08 PM

Robinson- I have the one without the spreader and like it a lot. I have a 34 inch waist and i have it cinched down just as far as it goes, though. Would not recommend for any smaller waist, would recommend the PL Divine harness instead as it's a much better fit for smaller people.

I put a nice big locking carabiner on the nylon loop, and I attach chicken loop to that. Easy, but this moves whole bar 3 more inches away which can be a problem for shorter people.

The local snowkite school uses the mystic blazer harness for smaller students and ozone access SB for larger ones.

Having a spreader bar or not on landkite harness is personal preference/riding style dependent. If I was gonna get a spreader bar harness, I would want one with the pivot or the slide, as toeside can be tough...

ssayre - 4-11-2014 at 05:11 PM

Feyd, I have never been able to keep the straps tight on the ozone sb harness and I'm definitely not skinny. I have tried everything I can think of and the second a little pull is applied to the spreader bar, the straps begin to loosen. The only other thing I can think to try is duct tape or rope to tie the loops together to keep them from loosening. Other than that major problem it's a fine harness.

bobalooie57 - 4-11-2014 at 05:17 PM

Before the "Base" harness, Ozone had the "SD" harness which is essentially the Base harness with a "D" ring where the loop is. I own both the SD and the SB harness' and find both to be comfortable and useable. I did use the SD harness with a climbing 'biner to make hooking in easier, but found that the arm reach was a bit too long for my taste. I found if I hooked the 'biner around the webbing of the harness, rather than through the D ring, it brought the bar a little closer. I find the SB harness a little easier to use, as both the chicken loop and or a strop are easily connected. Issues with adjusting the fit of both seemed to go away with use, it was kind of hard to adjust when new, but became easier over time. As far as bending over with the SB, I can still tie my shoes with it on.

indigo_wolf - 4-11-2014 at 08:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bobalooie57

Before the "Base" harness, Ozone had the "SD" harness which is essentially the Base harness with a "D" ring where the loop is. I own both the SD and the SB harness' and find both to be comfortable and useable.

Still have a difficult trying to assign any description even slightly implying comfort where the SD harness is concerned.

Maybe people are using it in the buggy or with thick winter pants, but in warm weather gear, the SD version leans more than a little bit towards....

Ozone was supposed to have have addressed in the SB version as one of the selling points:

"Leg straps attached at a more ergonomic angle. Distributes vertical loads between the attachment point and leg padding without squashing the family jewels."

But one tends to hold a bit of a grudge against them for the design flaw that the let through on the initial version.

ATB,
Sam

yeti - 4-11-2014 at 08:31 PM

The SB harness is great until you get really aggressive and the hook rotates up and away, allowing the loop to escape. It seems to be an issue for me with Ozone's own chicken loop (somewhat ironically). There's nothing really resisting torque on the hook, and I've had the kite pull the loop right off the spreader bar (instant unintentional safety deployment) because the stick on the Ozone loop is so flimsy. Never happened with my HQ or flysurfer kites, but the problem is still there.

One solution is to make the waist adjustment uncomfortably tight. The other solution I'm considering is maybe throwing the hook into a vice and adding a little more curl this winter. Or maybe injecting something like a flexible epoxy into the hollow ozone chicken finger to stiffen it up.

The SB harness is definitely comfortable, but it could be a lot more comfortable if it wasn't a one-size-fits-all solution. There's a lot of extra bulk when you cinch that stuff up, even when you're wearing it over winter gear. With a 32 waist I can't even understand how it would fit when you're not wearing at least a few layers.

So those are my complaints. Definitely works but I think it could be improved.

yeti - 4-11-2014 at 08:52 PM

Guess this is a separate issue - not really harness related, but after searching google for a few minutes, I found I'm not the only one to have a problem with the ozone chicken loops:
http://www.extremekites.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17269

The slipping off the hook issue is similar, I think. As a skier, you can put a lot of sideways pull on the hook/loop, and leaned over to one side it isn't really directing the pull of the loop into the curve of the hook, so you need a stick that's much stiffer (relative to the stiffness of the loop itself) to prevent the accidental slip off.

Anyway just thought I'd try to qualify my other comments in case anyone was wondering exactly what I was complaining for.

robinsonpr - 5-11-2014 at 12:58 AM

Sounds like the one-size-fits-all of the Ozone harnesses rules it out for me. I'm a 32 inch waist and haven't got chunky legs. I won't be wearing winter gear, just jeans or cargo pants, so sounds like I just wouldn't be able to get it tight enough.

Shame as I really want something lightweight rather than a full seat harness like the PL Divine. :barf:

UnknownAX - 5-11-2014 at 03:24 PM

I have been using the Access Base harness on snow for 2 winters. I'm about the same size as you and it fits fine although I had to make it almost as small as possible. (You can make it ridiculously big... :D)
The best thing about it is definitly that it does NOT have a hook. I wish all harnesses were like that. All the usual spreader bar related problems are gone, including the skier specific one...
Leg loops are never too comfortable but these are the the best ones I've tried and they have good padding compared to other harnesses. The only negative thing I can say is that the straps get loose quickly and you have to retighten them constantly, the harness often simply falls down when I stop and land the kite. :o

Having said that, I don't know what the harness would be like without all the thick winter clothes, I usually wear 2-3 pants and a thick jacket under it. I imagine it could lack some support (it basically has none) and it might move around a lot.

robinsonpr - 5-11-2014 at 03:28 PM

Thanks for that UnknownAX. I'm still in 2 minds due to the size.

Do you put your chicken loop through the loop on the harness or use a carabiner between the chicken loop and the harness?

UnknownAX - 5-11-2014 at 04:22 PM

I bought a nice, oval shaped climbing carabiner when I got the harness but ended up never using it. The (old) Ozone megatron is very simple to put together even with gloves on and I don't use ice screws so there's no real reason for me to use the carabiner.

robinsonpr - 5-11-2014 at 04:27 PM

Yeah the chicken loop on my Flysurfer Peak is easy to reset. Tempting....

shehatesmyhobbies - 5-11-2014 at 06:28 PM

I know I used to have the Ozone Access, with SB, and after carefully reading inside the harness, decided that it wasn't for me. I read that the harness wasn't designed for any lifting at all aka, jumping and being supported by the harness. I use the divine in the buggy and on the board and love it. So comfortable and easy to get in and out of.

I don't know if they changed that and I am sure that people have worn them while jumping and been fine, but Im not one to test items and see if they will break, especially if I am in the air. Just sayin.

ssayre - 5-11-2014 at 08:52 PM

My ozone harness said that as well. I just figured it was a legal thing and that it was made strong enough to jump with. I hadn't considered that it actually wasn't made for jumping. I figured all were made for that more or less. I'm pretty heavy and jumped with it when I had a arc and it didn't show any signs of wear. The only real problem that I could see was the straps loosening which seems like it would be really easy for ozone to correct that. I suppose some simple modifications would probably help but I haven't got around to tinkering with it.

soliver - 5-11-2014 at 09:24 PM

4 words:

Peter. Lynn. Divine. Harness.

There... Done

shehatesmyhobbies - 6-11-2014 at 01:00 AM

Wow, I hate when I post at 3am!

:smilegrin:

robinsonpr - 6-11-2014 at 01:12 AM

Yeah seems like most people really rate the divine. I don't think I've ever read a bad word about it.

Here in the UK I've only seen it for sale with a pulley spreader bar. What hook spreader bar fits it?

Is there a way to not have a spreader but a fabric loop instead like the Ozone base harness? Or a carabiner maybe?

Also would the divine be suitable for kitesurfing on water too or should I hold onto my Mystic Warrior for that?

UnknownAX - 6-11-2014 at 01:52 AM

I actually saw a guy kitesurf with the ozone once. He was wearing a drysuit, though.
I bought a Mystic for kitesurfing and didn't even consider using the Ozone Access with a wetsuit on as I was afraid it would move around a lot and it's not really meant for water use anyway.

ssayre - 6-11-2014 at 03:26 AM

Quote:

4 words: Peter. Lynn. Divine. Harness. There... Done

I've got one on its way Spencer. :D

erratic winds - 6-11-2014 at 07:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies

Ozone makes harnesses for climbing

can you link me an ozone climbing harness? my googlin' doesn't turn up anything like that, closest would be that Black Diamond makes a model named "Ozone"....

Just surprised to learn another facet of the company if it's true...

g00fba11 - 6-11-2014 at 08:16 PM

I run a divine with a standard spreader bar.

My son runs a divine with standard spreader bar.

They are just so comfy. They also work great for skijoring!

shehatesmyhobbies - 7-11-2014 at 03:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by erratic winds

Quote: Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies

Ozone makes harnesses for climbing

Yea I have got to stop posting when I wake up in the middle of the night, I don't even remember posting at all! Post edited to just a smile.

ssayre - 7-11-2014 at 06:12 AM

I hope their paragliding harness straps stay tighter then their kite harness. :P

indigo_wolf - 7-11-2014 at 03:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies

Yea I have got to stop posting when I wake up in the middle of the night, I don't even remember posting at all! Post edited to just a smile.

My albi for postings I have had to later rethink... the computer was left on and the cat's typing is getting better.

ATB,
Sam

shehatesmyhobbies - 7-11-2014 at 09:36 PM

I wish I had a cat to blame it on, I do have two dogs, one is too old and lazy, the other is smart, sometimes smarter than me but he has big paws.

TEDWESLEY - 8-11-2014 at 07:15 AM

I own both of these harnesses. The access base is what I use for standup activities as the load is spread across the lower back and legs pretty
equally . Cinching it down takes some practice, I find that bending over while pulling the straps helps find the loose bits. The loop may take more time
to put the chicken loop through, but it really isn't much. The Divine is better in the buggy as the pull is from a different direction. I find that the divine makes me sit higher in the buggy (flexi stainless ) so that I need a higher back support. The ozone doesn't have the back support problem for me. They both are well built. Walking is easier in the Ozone ( who plans on walking ). I have the bullet spreader on the divine but will be switching to the standard hook this season.

robinsonpr - 8-11-2014 at 12:05 PM

Thanks Ted! What's your waist size? Sounds like the Ozone can be tough to get right if you haven't got loads of snow gear on?

TEDWESLEY - 12-11-2014 at 05:39 PM

I'm a 36" and have no problem getting it on over sweatpants under ski pants. It does have to be cinched in a couple of times
early in the session but is no problem from then on. When the leg pads are placed in the correct location, the harness pulls fairly equally on the waist and legs thus spreading the load. When I'm using a strop and FB kites I shackle a release where the chicken loop goes. A light spray of silicone will make the straps and buckles work easier until they get broken in.

robinsonpr - 13-11-2014 at 12:23 AM

At a 32 waist and just wearing jeans for landboarding it sounds like I'll struggle to cinch it in enough

Pity as my kite store has a sale on the Base version without the hook...

ssayre - 13-11-2014 at 04:22 AM

Does the kite store have one you can try on?

robinsonpr - 13-11-2014 at 04:24 AM

No it's not nearby, it would be mail order. Unfortunately there aren't many kite stores in the UK, and my nearest one is a couple of hours drive away

ssayre - 13-11-2014 at 04:33 AM

Same here. Closest kite shop is about 4 hours drive.

Feyd - 13-11-2014 at 05:10 AM

We demo harnesses in addition to our demo kites. We even have the HQ though we don't list it on our site.

But if someone wants to try an Ozone, Dakine Fusion or HQ seat harness, Hardwater Kiting has them but it doesn't help you if you aren't here in the Northeast I guess.

jadog - 13-11-2014 at 06:13 AM

I was just going to ask - what about the Dakine Fusion? How would that compare to the PL Devine?

ssayre - 13-11-2014 at 11:42 AM

Wow, I didn't expect the divine to feel that different than the ozone. It's a completely different experience. With the ozone I could feel a hard pull shared 70/30 between my waist and leg straps with lots of slop around the waist. With the divine, the pull is distributed evenly right around your arse and was very comfortable. So much so that I didn't feel like I could "feel" the kite enough. It will take some getting used to but I think I like it.

Feyd - 13-11-2014 at 03:18 PM

That's the difference between a harness like the Access and a seat harness. The Divine is a comfortable harness in some ways compared to the Access SB. Really depending on the type of use and how well you fit. The Divine feels a lot like the HQ IMO. More freedom than a Fusion but no where near the support. The Fusion in my experience is the most reliable and solid interface between you and your kite. All of my advanced flying and speed sessions are done in a Fusion. I need all the support and comfort I can get. This is where the Fusion is top dog, comfort under load. All these other harnesses are more comfortable in general but without the solid back support and fit that hugs you like a glove under load. It really allows you to feel where the kite is without having to look.

Harnesses (to me) are like ski boots. The better the fit the better the performance. I don't care much how comfortable it is sitting at the bar, I want it to be comfortable when I'm pushing it. The Fusion is that kind of harness and thus the price tag. But for long term durability I haven't seen anything else that lasts so long.

There is little to no comparison between the Dakine and the Peter Lynn. It's like comparing a Military Hummer to a new Wrangler. Both good, but totally different duty levels.

I like the SB because for all around use for most people it's a great harness for the money. For touring in light to moderate winds I like it because if the wind dies I can hike or skin in it and not feel like I'm in a harness at all. I think the SB and Peak combo is a killer set up and bang for the buck it can't be beat. :D

robinsonpr - 13-11-2014 at 03:46 PM

I really need to find someone with an Access to see if I can get it tight enough over jeans!

ssayre - 14-11-2014 at 12:45 AM

Just for you Robinson, I measured my ozone harness with it completely tightened. I used a flexible sewing measuring tape.

The legs tighten down to 18"(roughly 45 cm) in circumference at its tightest. They fit around the the middle to upper thigh. My legs measure 24".

The waist tightens down to 32" (roughly 81 cm) at its tightest.

Feyd - 14-11-2014 at 03:40 AM

Ooooooo! That's good to know actually. Ssayre, mind if I list those measurements on the Ozone SB page on our site? That may be pretty helpful for some of our customers.

ssayre - 14-11-2014 at 04:21 AM

Not at all. Glad I could help.

I will say if your someone that is around the minimum tolerances, you will have 4 pretty long straps flopping around.

robinsonpr - 14-11-2014 at 06:13 AM

Ssayre you're a gent!!

I'm a 32" waist (in jeans size anyhow) so it might be pushing it at the lower limit of it's fit.

I'm taking my kids for a ski lesson on Sunday and they also have a climbing shop there. They have some Petzl harnesses in stock (the Corax seems to be a decent all rounder that isn't too expensive), and also Black Diamond (Momentum seems OK and is quite cheap). I might get them to hook me up to a wall so I can try a few and see how comfortable (or not!!) they are.

Anyone else tried a climbing harness like this with a board?

vaultingbassist - 14-11-2014 at 07:04 AM

I have/use a Black Diamond momentum AL (adjustable leg loops) and don't find it uncomfortable, but I have never worn a kite harness so can't offer comparison. But I could wear that harness all day just walking around, and spent a fair amount of time hanging on it in the gym/at the crag :D

robinsonpr - 14-11-2014 at 07:14 AM

Ah yes the Black Diamond Momentum AL is the one the climbing shop stocks. Looks like it has a fair amount of padding. And it's cheap.

Do you have a carabiner to hook your chicken loop into or do you open your chicken loop and put it directly through the belay loop on the harness?

vaultingbassist - 14-11-2014 at 07:34 AM

I put the chicken loop through the belay loop. Adding a carabiner would definitely have made the bar too far away.

robinsonpr - 14-11-2014 at 07:57 AM

Adding a carabiner might not be an issue with my Peak, the bar isn't miles away.

But going back to the Ozone here's a thing....

I'm a 32" waist as far as I was aware. Every pair of diesel or levis jeans I wear are 32. However it appears that even though I wear that size (and they DO fit, I'm not squeezing myself into them in a pathetic attempt to cling onto my youthful slimmer self!) it appears to bear no meaning to the actual roundness of my gut. I mean six pack.

Having just measured my waist with a tape measure I'm a somewhat rotund 36", so it sounds like the Ozone WILL fit me after all and with adjustment to spare.

My bambiesque legs sounds like they'll cope aswell, they measure 22" just below the upper thigh.

ssayre - 14-11-2014 at 09:06 AM

ozone should work. You'll have to push the excess material around as you tighten to allow it the full tightening range.

robinsonpr - 14-11-2014 at 10:23 AM

Yeah hopefully. Gonna try a couple of those climbing harnesses being as I'm there on Sunday. If they feel like they are going to cut me in half I'll order the Ozone Access Base I think!