Power Kite Forum

No respect

Bladerunner - 9-11-2014 at 05:37 PM

Ted's videos ( and Cartb's ) have me wondering if you get any respect from the local kitesurf crew?

We are considered as a bit of a joke around here. To a certian degree we don't deserve any respect. We don't have decent beaches and Garry Point is tiny compared to the ocean. We have some decent pilots but lose the young folks to the water crew when they outgrow us and the park.

How about you? Is there a devide between land and water kiters or do you all get along / respect each other?

skimtwashington - 9-11-2014 at 08:13 PM

That's odd you get that vibe.

In my neck of woods-I mean beach-The Kite surfers and kite buggiers don't mix hardly- with respect to hanging out in chat groups together...... but are quite friendly and respect each other. I think the positive and friendly you put out you get back...usually.

ssayre - 9-11-2014 at 08:18 PM

If land kiters are considered a joke at your local spot then they would really think I'm a joke goofing around in my local grass fields.

canuck - 9-11-2014 at 08:35 PM

We all seem to get along well in Calgary. Very few landkiters though. When hardwater kiting starts the kitesurf crew change from drysuits and kiteboards to snowsuits and snowboards on their favorite lake.

flyjump - 9-11-2014 at 08:45 PM

At least there are other kite fliers there lol. I'm the only one around here

flyhighWNY - 9-11-2014 at 09:38 PM

In my area the only thing myself and water based kiters have in common is wind!! They tolerate me and my buggy and in the summer there is no contact!! In the winter we can hang but they are still a bit of a clique as they only board (no skis). it is what it is I suppose!

SpecialK - 9-11-2014 at 10:17 PM

I guess I don't understand the difference or why there would be segregation? They certainly have the advantage generally speaking.. since they have clean(er) wind and wide open space to move by default.. not to mention a nice soft landing if they wreck (yes water can hurt, but nothing compared to rocks..)

I have yet to actually get out on water, though I'm really looking forward to it. Though I really like my landboard and I'm sure if I ever get to try a buggy that'd be amusing too.

Also, Bladerunner.. it's "divide" :D

bigkid - 10-11-2014 at 04:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SpecialK  
......Also, Bladerunner.. it's "divide" :D

thats why they dont get along. haha
The same attitude is here in the Puget Sound area too. From what I know of the local kite board shops its not the people who kite on the water, its the shop owners who have instilled the holier than thou attitude.
Most of the water boys and girls are great people and dont give a heck, I ask the others to show me one of their 60 mph runs and how they maneuver through creeks, driftwood, sand castles, kids digging to China, people, dogs, cars and idiots while your a** is only inches from hard pack. If that doesnt cool their jets, I tell them my water skills are 1000% better than thier buggy skills. I then stop to repent before heading home.:saint:

soliver - 10-11-2014 at 06:11 AM

closest beach is 5 hours away, so this is really not much of an issue for me... There are guys that will kite surf Lake Lanier, but they are few, and that is still some distance from me.

I can say that my last couple of times at the beach, when I see a kite surfer, they fein interest in me. Last time, I had just finished up on the buggy and was walking back to the rental. I saw a guy and told him how it was blowing, but he really only smiled and nodded... kinda lame.

edit: Can't remember what I typed there at the end, but the profanity sensor thing changed what ever I put so I must've put something uncool... sorry ... I just though the guy seemed pretentious.

B-Roc - 10-11-2014 at 06:21 AM

Divide or no divide, I think I've helped water kiters a lot more (launching, landing, etc.) than they have ever (needed) to help land kiters. That being said, we all seem to get along in my neck of the woods.

skimtwashington - 10-11-2014 at 07:41 AM


Human nature -unfortunately- is full of divides.

Respect, Ken?...at least you're not Samuel L. Jackson




Samuel.L. is the most talented of his siblings- Michael, Germaine, Tito....Janet, Latoya...:singing:

WELDNGOD - 10-11-2014 at 08:04 AM

Around here the "divide" is the fact most of them are "surfers" first and "kiters" last. I like to laugh at them when they struggle w/ their big ol air mattresses in the wind. And I've listened to them teaching their "students" and referring to the kite I'm laying out on the beach as a "trainer" kite. The kite in question was a 2.4m PKD Combat. LOL The look on their faces when that "trainer" hauls me and a 131lb buggy to the horizon quicker than they can mount their board and go 100 yds.:D I'd love to trade up one day and see who could fly who's gear better. I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut, I could fly their air mattress better than they could fly my "trainer".
I must say they don't really give us any flack. That might have to do with Scott has a Brother who lives down here and is one of the "kitesurfer" crowd. I'm pretty sure he has told his mates that we are OK and very safety conscious .

carltb - 10-11-2014 at 09:59 AM

I don't know about being respected but what I do know is, im a far better rider then 90% of the people I ride with. whether that be land or water.
I also know, im risking more when I fly on land!!

Bladerunner - 10-11-2014 at 10:13 AM

Thanks for replying Carl. It looked to me like you all get along since you share the same beach. I figured it would be hard for them not to respect you and hoped that extended to all land riders.
We have a bit of history here and used to share a local website. I think the breakdown of that site + the fact that none of us ride at your level adds to the local devide? The kitesurfers and pole surfers also have a bit of a devide here.

Special, If you think my spelling is bad you should take a look at the pathetic job I am doing with math and my night ( spelled proper in Canada ) school course! :o

Feyd - 10-11-2014 at 12:34 PM

IMO for the most part respect is something that is earned and not to be expected automatically. Especially when you are the smaller of the user groups in the area or a beginner. It's like this in most "Non-Team" sports like kiting, skiing, skating, surfing etc...

This said there is a certain level of respect and common courtesy that should be afforded to everyone regardless of who they are or what discipline they follow.

Everyone to some level deserves some respect. Those who have put in time mastering their discipline, guys like Carl, deserve more respect as they have put in the time, taken the hits and lived through the aches and pains and commitment to be at the level they are. They are the ones that pave the way and they are the ones that you have the best opportunity to learn from and can help you be better.

If there is anyone who IMO doesn't deserve respect it would be those who act in a selfish manner and only for their own benefit. Especially at the cost of riding access for the greater riding population. We've had issues with that here. Lost most of the local land based riding as a result and just because a couple of selfish individuals had lack of respect for private landowners and the overall health of our kiting communities' land access. This happened a long time ago and people, myself included, can't seem to let it go. And frankly I don't feel we should.

As ambassadors to our respective disciplines we are all responsible to conduct ourselves with a certain level of respect for others. Especially those that are generous enough to let us access the land for the activities we love.

PHREERIDER - 10-11-2014 at 01:27 PM

here its about respect the spot, no local divided riders here surf, SUP ,windsurf whatever....well maybe the careless dog owners. i respect the owners of well controlled animals, the other lot needs remediation.

Feyd - 10-11-2014 at 05:33 PM

I think the type of lack of respect that Blade may be referring to may not be entirely a lack of respect but also a lack of interest. For example, I got some images of myself riding the Flysurfer Peak yesterday on a pair of Coyotes. Now to me, who's not opposed to most anything kite powered even if I don't participate in whatever example you give me, I will likely find it interesting. Either because of what it is, how it looks or the amount of skill it took to pull something off.

But if I were to take that image and post it on Flysurfers FB page I can pretty much bet that most people wouldn't give a squirt about it or worse, just be annoyed that it's cluttering their precious FB feed.

But they don't do this because they don't respect the image or the action it portrays, they just don't care or can't relate because it really has nothing to do with what they care about.

Just a thought.


soliver - 10-11-2014 at 05:40 PM

Good point Feyd,... It's easy to forget how lack of interest can come across as smugness.

skimtwashington - 10-11-2014 at 08:05 PM

Yes Chris, a valid point.

Fear or shyness often comes off as aloofness or lack of interest.

Don't forget the 'make fun of others that are different to make one feel better about themselves and their insecurities' crap that humans fall(or..'fail') into.

Breaking the ice and social attempts can build bridges of good will between such group. I mean you have kites and wind in common!!

ssayre - 10-11-2014 at 09:06 PM

A guy stopped me this weekend that was curious about kitesurfing. I had him try the 4 meter nasa and he was flying in no time and seemed to like it. I told him to get a 3 meter and ask kitesurfing questions on here. We exchanged numbers and I told him I could at least help with the fundamentals of flying.

carltb - 11-11-2014 at 08:56 AM

personally, I think most kitesurfers start out only wanting to kitesurf and miss out on the thrill of just flying a kite. they'll quickly get lessons and jump straight onto the water and think its the be all and end all of kiting.
to me, the most rounded kiters are the ones that start out on fixed bridal kites and just loved the raw power that's produced by abit of fabric on the end of some string! I think this is why I call myself a kiter. im at home on skates, board, snow, water, and buggy and get just as much enjoyment from each.
a lot of the old skool kiters totally get this but the newer breed are more sucked in by an "image"

PHREERIDER - 11-11-2014 at 09:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by carltb  
personally, I think most kitesurfers start out only wanting to kitesurf and miss out on the thrill of just flying a kite. they'll quickly get lessons and jump straight onto the water and think its the be all and end all of kiting.
to me, the most rounded kiters are the ones that start out on fixed bridal kites and just loved the raw power that's produced by abit of fabric on the end of some string! I think this is why I call myself a kiter. im at home on skates, board, snow, water, and buggy and get just as much enjoyment from each.
a lot of the old skool kiters totally get this but the newer breed are more sucked in by an "image"



yep

WELDNGOD - 11-11-2014 at 09:25 AM

For me , it all starts with the KITE. :D

BeamerBob - 11-11-2014 at 09:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by carltb  
personally, I think most kitesurfers start out only wanting to kitesurf and miss out on the thrill of just flying a kite. they'll quickly get lessons and jump straight onto the water and think its the be all and end all of kiting.
to me, the most rounded kiters are the ones that start out on fixed bridal kites and just loved the raw power that's produced by abit of fabric on the end of some string! I think this is why I call myself a kiter. im at home on skates, board, snow, water, and buggy and get just as much enjoyment from each.
a lot of the old skool kiters totally get this but the newer breed are more sucked in by an "image"


I agree. Many kitesurfers are "activity centric". The activity is the thing and the kite and board are just a tool. I feel a magic when I'm under the power of a kite. I think the kite is a beautiful thing in the sky. Life would be much simpler if I traded all my kite and buggy gear for a nice Standart landsailer, but it would be missing the kite. The day will come that my reflexes are no match for a fast kite, but then the option might be to slow down a bit.

So someone that is hooked on kitesurfing and the kite is just a tool has no kinsmanship with land kiters in the least. They just don't care about what we do because it isn't what they do.

SpecialK - 11-11-2014 at 09:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by carltb  

a lot of the old skool kiters totally get this but the newer breed are more sucked in by an "image"


Am I the only one that thinks that it's completely ridiculous that any adult can take themselves that seriously? Honestly, we're all a bunch of adult men/women who strap some fabric and shoestring to our waist and hope to be flown away. It's a cool hobby, and I agree people like Carl should get the respect they deserve for the mastery they've achieved, but it's a pretty far cry from anyting that would imbue anyone with the right to a condescending demeanor/image. Lol.

Feyd - 11-11-2014 at 11:20 AM

There's some truth to what Carl is saying. I see it with mountain biking. These younger riders coming in, totally in love with whatever BS the marketing types are slinging.

In response to SpecialS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s assessment I would for the most part agree. We're basically just strapping ourselves to some fancy fishing line and a bit of ripstop in hopes of scooting around a bit. But like anything there are elements that push things a little further, be it Carl hucking his carcass 20' in the air over packed sand, the guys out in Jackson Hole gliding 100' in the air off hillsides or me ripping across the ice at 70mph+. For me I admit, I'm guilty of feeling a little superior to others for what I do on a kite. Snowmobilers are a example. They think they're awesome because they can gas up, climb on a sled and pin it across a lake at 80mph. It takes very little skill and relies more on having very little brains. Any slob can actuate a throttle. Do I feel superior because I can go nearly as fast on a piece of ripstop tied to me by some fishing line and powered by the wind? You bet I do!:D I find the most people here that disrespect us are actually the gravity skiers. But that's because they don't really get the whole "snowkite" thing and won't until they see it first hand.

I will say that sometimes as a pure snowkiter I feel there is some derision from the water riding component of kiting. Water riders seem to be a fairly close knit group and it seems everyone on the Eastcoast from Quebec to the Keys knows each other. And if you aren't a water rider and known in the water community, nobody will give you much time. I don't know that I would equate this to lack of respect but again more to lack of interest. I suppose that the lunatic fringe of pure bred snowkiters probably feel about the same about the water types. As most of us come from a skiing background and the kite thing isn't about the kiting but about burning up huge 40-100 mile ski runs. Which even in the global snowkite ranks is not very common.

Personally, I don't give a dang what type of kiter you are. As long as you're having fun and you aren't hurting others or putting kiters in a bad light I say go nuts with whatever crazy kite powered thing blows your skirt up. Same for skiing, riding bikes or whatever. Life is damn short, shorter than most people realize and you gotta get out there as much as you can.

Feyd - 11-11-2014 at 11:25 AM

And now that I think about it, I do have some feeling of appreciation for the kite itself. The variety of design and form is amazing and they are beautiful in the air.

Otherwise I'd probably be on a Kitewing which I'm sure are fun and all but not as versatile or powerful.

SpecialK - 11-11-2014 at 12:16 PM

I suppose you have a point, Feyd. If I'm honest about it, I do feel pride that I'm out there flying a kite (and probably looking like a fool) to the endless stream of people who pull over to watch. At least in the sense that I'm out there doing something different that makes people take notice. I certainly wasn't trying to say that I don't suffer the same pitfalls as every human in history. I just like to *try* to take a step back and look at how silly it all is!

ssayre - 11-11-2014 at 03:03 PM

I just wish it wasn't so hard to find a decent kitesurfing video while sifting through tons of land based kiting videos. :D

WELDNGOD - 11-11-2014 at 03:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
I just wish it wasn't so hard to find a decent kitesurfing video while sifting through tons of land based kiting videos. :D


I think that is because of water on the lens looks like crap. :lol:

soliver - 11-11-2014 at 06:21 PM

I was thinking about this some today...

I believe human nature gives us the tendency to define ourselves by what we do. Most frequently this is what we do with our job: "I am a carpenter, I am a banker, I am a small business owner..." Since we heavily invest ourselves (time, money, mental space) in it, it sort of becomes a big part of our identity... Likewise we invest time, money, and mental space in our pastimes and they too become a defining part of our identity. We all know what we invest in kiting... MONEY... TIME... this sound familiar? "When I'm not doing it, im thinking about doing it..."

That said, all of that investment as well as the attention we get from kiting gives us pride in it... After all, it defines us right?... So when we encounter someone whose pastime might equally as cool as ours, that Pride shows up with its ugly face on... "I'm a kite surfer, and I've got cool stuff... But you're a buggy pilot and your stuff is pretty cool and unique too... Not sure I like that?!?!?!" And vice versa with us... In short "the coolness of your identity is a threat to the coolness of my identity"....It's a lesson in humility, right?

Does this make any sense?... Anybody picking up what I'm throwin' down?

Sorry, just sharing thoughts.

I'm sure we are not all this way,... I just know what I'm guilty of in the cognitive framework, that is.

Ok... I'll stop now.

pyro22487 - 12-11-2014 at 02:06 AM

Me and the older kite surfers get along fairly well the have seen me spanked by a kite and some have flown my gear and see the appeal. I haven't met any of the newer crowd. (Added a member to the family and haven't been out much in the last couple years.) from what my surfer buddies tell me they have no respect at all. Including and not limited to the wind, other more experienced riders, boaters, water, and rocks. It has literally come to blows with the newer pilots and the older ones.

Ps
Could someone post the links to the above mentioned videos?

rectifier - 12-11-2014 at 02:47 PM

Haven't met anyone yet who disrespects my snow and hard water ways. But these are the prairies and I think just about all the water riders out here get on the skis and boards come winter.

I do find it funny how a lot of the water guys who only own LEI's look at my tiny foils with surprise like "why'd he bother putting his skis on to fly a 3m kite" but I've had a lot of discussions about kite designs and power/lift/speed after.

I am a kiter who boards which is why I fly foils. I love their maneuverability and speed in the air. I also like to build kites for the sake of building rather than just to save money (as many assume)
There are a lot of boarders who kite and they don't care what is in the sky as long as it pulls them along - these guys are a lot less fun to talk to, it's true. No interest in kites and the wind, really, just like a lot of the kids who race cars without knowing anything about what is under the hood.

TEDWESLEY - 12-11-2014 at 05:28 PM

Can't say that I see any problems with the folks that we share the beach with. We seem to understand that we present kiting to the general public. Most of the kitesurfers ride the hardwater in the season and nobody has ever been condescending that
I've experienced. We have had people who were not being careful in their riding and trying to ride when the beach was too
crowded etc. Usually if tactfully approached they see that it is in their interest to change their behavior. When people act like
jerks, their time and commitment to the sport doesn't last. Unfortunately they can do real damage with our public image in the process as Feyd has experienced.
You get back what you give.