Power Kite Forum - Any good big light wind kites?

Any good big light wind kites?

rtz - 7-12-2014 at 04:45 PM

Looking for something 6m or bigger. Needs to handle gusts and lulls well. Something well mannered and easy to fly.

Mainly something that handles the lulls well and doesn't fold up, crumple, collapse, or fall out of the sky.

For buggy use. 0-10mph wind.

Used to be a 7m Beamer if I recall(never flew it). A 6m Hornet exists.

How do kites like these do in terrible wind conditions?

I'm passing up way too many light wind days lately. I'm going to get out no matter what this week and find out what the true low end wind speed of my 5m Octane and 5.5m Reactors is.

ssayre - 7-12-2014 at 04:54 PM

NS2. Seriously, awesome for lull/gust munching. I've always thought you could benefit from these in your conditions.

Edit: I've also thought you might benefit from a 1.5 on your crazy wind days. I'd love to try the nasa's out in your neck of the woods.

Edit: They are available in 8.5, 10, 12.5 not listed on their site. Or Susan can make any size nasa wing of course.

rofer - 7-12-2014 at 06:12 PM

There's also supposedly the NS3 coming out early 2015. I'm keeping my eyes open for that.

soliver - 7-12-2014 at 08:15 PM

Always love the Reactors... Rtz I think you have the 5.5m... Compliment it with the 6.9m and I think you'll be good... The way I always hear you describe your wind, I can't imagine you'd need the 8.6m... But that one is one of my favs

I hear the new Reactors are better on the low end than the RIIs

rtz - 7-12-2014 at 08:35 PM

I used to have the 6.9m RII. It just seemed too long and that kite has some weight to it. It was a challenge in light, light wind.

Here is an old video of it in action:

(video starts with the 5m Flow briefly)

A rare light wind day when the wind was both light enough, and steady enough to make good use of that kite. Those days are very rare.

Most days; the lulls make it a challenge to keep the kite in the air at all times(what I like). I also used to easily be overpowered by that kite(sliding sideways downwind).

Typically every time I get out my 5.5m Reactor; I'm reminded very clearly why it's the largest I own. I'm planning on getting out everyday this week.

It's been a wet no wind mess the past couple weeks. And it's going to be very light this week. But it's this or nothing:

3shot - 7-12-2014 at 08:59 PM

Hey I remember that 6.9

John Holgate - 8-12-2014 at 01:55 AM

I've briefly flown the old Hornet 5m....nah, slow & sluggish. I have the 7 & 10m NS2 - the 10m needs about 5 knots to generate enough power to park and ride on 20m lines. Add 1.5 knots for the 7m. Though you could try a 7m on 30 - 40m lines and see how that goes. The NS2's have consistently performed better in my inland winds than Hornets, Beamers, Octanes, Flows, Apex & Access. I've flown with Mik333 when he's been flying his 10m Century II when I couldn't get my 9m Riot off the ground - but he's a lot more skilled than me in light winds, and light wind flying does take a bit of skill!

The only other kite I'd consider for light wind flying (that I could possibly afford) is the Peak. Or Peak 2 which I think has just been released.

B-Roc - 8-12-2014 at 04:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

NS2.

Edit: They are available in 8.5, 10, 12.5 not listed on their site. Or Susan can make any size nasa wing of course.

What is the site by which they can be ordered? I thought they were only custom made these days by people like Susan.

ssayre - 8-12-2014 at 05:22 AM

http://www.born-kite.de/

@B-roc: There is the link, it's a company located in Germany. The Nasa Star 2's main innovations are "Air Halfpipes" and 3rd line depower function to the nose along with accompanying bars.

@RTZ: Sorry, but you asked for a tidal wave of single skin advice given your criteria :D

kitemaker4 - 8-12-2014 at 08:18 AM

Nasa wings do really great in inland gusty winds. That is why I fly them. I make the npw9 version and have been flying them for years. Let me know if I can help out.

Susan (npw goddess)

Cerebite - 8-12-2014 at 04:43 PM

Like you I have gusty, shift inland winds compounded by a heavy buggy, grass [on the field not in the flyer] and a need for speed.

I will also throw my weight behind the NPWs in big sizes.

In terms of foils I have had really good luck for the past year or so with a Blade 8.5. I have been testing a 12m Ace, 10m Blaze and a 10m ??? from Pansh since last winter with indeterminate results.

I have an 8m Reactor but have never had it fly well in my conditions [too much variation].

soliver - 8-12-2014 at 05:15 PM

Maybe my wind isn't as bad as I think it is

soliver - 8-12-2014 at 05:16 PM

Stupid iPad... Double post

3shot - 8-12-2014 at 07:20 PM

RTZ, for what its worth, I bought that very 6.9 RII as you know. I tried and tried also to no avail. I now have a set of NS2 with a 7m incoming....

My wind lulls are ridiculous...

My Flows by far, have been the best janky eaters as far as foils go for my location. Having the closed cells is what saved it most times in a lull. You have 5 of the new Reactors, so they must have an edge on the RII? I'd like to try another swing with the new Reactors as well. For me, it looks like the Nasa Star 2 will be moving my Flows into second place as far as traction goes. Single skin with depower ability is rather mind blowing once you experience it. I only mention this because I remember how much you liked the Flow quiver. Like others above, I'd also suggest looking into a single skin like the NPW or the NS2, etc.

Of course, all subject to debate, but that's my humble opinion. Good luck Sir :thumbup:

RonH - 9-12-2014 at 10:59 AM

The best open cell foil I have seen and used for crappy wind would have to be the Sky Country Reflex...

When the wind is so bad it makes a reactor snap shut and roll like a vapor or any other high aspect race foil the reflex usually sits there waiting for some input almost like it's asking what your problem is. :thumbup:

I'm sure there are lots of kites that are OK in gusty wind but most do not perform well...

bigkid - 9-12-2014 at 01:05 PM

This topic still cracks me up.
John was the only one with a knowledgeable responce, the npw and most any kite on loooooonger lines. At a point the lulls become non-existent.
No kite is good in low winds and lulls, isnt that an oxymoron? Arnt those called sucker winds?

ssayre - 9-12-2014 at 02:20 PM

Some of us only have sucker winds to work with, so kite selection can be much more critical. To me there's no single best answer. It's about finding what you like to fly and what works best for your conditions. That can and does vary for everyone. For me, I did a pole on what worked best and followed that advice which has served me very well so far. I only wish it was my first post and not my 788th.

Cerebite - 9-12-2014 at 04:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

This topic still cracks me up.
John was the only one with a knowledgeable responce, the npw and most any kite on loooooonger lines. At a point the lulls become non-existent.
No kite is good in low winds and lulls, isnt that an oxymoron? Arnt those called sucker winds?

A lot of us do not have the luxury of space to fly loong lines, on 30 m lines I can only use about 1/3 of my available field and that is without discussing the obstructions [static and dynamic]. What a flyer considers to be sucker winds also varies quite a bit, probably half of my flying sessions are in winds under 10 mph.

BigMikesKites - 9-12-2014 at 04:20 PM

For buggy .. Reactor.
But for a better user friendly kite. Hornet 6m, even the new SkyDog (up to 9m) is a nice kite.

Scudley - 9-12-2014 at 04:34 PM

No, I did not hack Ron's account, but I think he is right.

Quote: Originally posted by RonH

The best open cell foil I have scene and used for crappy wind would have to be the Sky Country Reflex...

When the wind is so bad it makes a reactor snap shut and roll like a vapor or any other high aspect race foil the reflex usually sits there waiting for some input almost like it's asking what your problem is. :thumbup:

I'm sure there are lots of kites that are OK in gusty wind but most do not perform well...

p.s. If anyone is interested Tonya/Solaris has a new 10m and a new 4m in North America deliverable by xmas.

RonH - 9-12-2014 at 05:01 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Scudley

No, I did not hack Ron's account, but I think he is right.

:o:o:o:o:o

RonH - 9-12-2014 at 05:09 PM

Flying in gusty winds and long lines...

IMHO - That is a good way to get hurt.

soliver - 9-12-2014 at 05:53 PM

Hey Mike, curious how do the Skydog 9.3m and an 8.6m Reactor compare side by side.

I like the look of that kite, what are the specs out of curiosity? AR and such?

RonH - 9-12-2014 at 08:51 PM

0 - 10 is a long shot for any kite... (3-4 - 10 is of though)

I would try a 10ish meter kite if the gusts really are only 10 or a 8.xx if the gusts are 12mph plus.

Not sure if you just don't have the power when needed with your smaller reactors or if they are crumpling up... 5.5 to 6.9 isn't enough of a size jump to find the power you need... It's like fine tuning (if you have all kite sizes)

Low wind flying does take lots of patience / experience. Once you have the skills it is as easy as it looks. I know that I got really discouraged watching everyone else while I failed to move very much in our low winds. Now, after many low, low wind days, I can ride with almost everyone else.

BigMikesKites - 10-12-2014 at 04:52 AM

@Soliver For performance on a buggy, you can't beat the reactor. The SkyDog doesn't come close. But if you want to keep your arms on your body longer, the SkyDog series is a pleasant bunch of kites to fly. I've flown every one of them and they were fun every time. You have to go up a size or two for the buggy on grass especially...but they aren't a reactor.

bigkid - 10-12-2014 at 10:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Cerebite

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

flying on the west coast through the US to the off shore east coast, I have found the wind is more or less the same. What I mean is it reacts and operates the same.
When I started using long lines I was at Ivanpah. Sucker winds all day long. With everyone sitting around waiting for real winds to show up I took a 13m Century out with 160 foot lines and gave it ago. It launched as I expected and steadily climed up to the zenith. As the kite reached about 100 feet above the lake bed I knew I was in trouble. The kite kept moving towards the zenith as I left the ground. Nothing dramatic as it was more of a foot every second type lofting. Hanging by my fingers on the handles in full power mode I fingered my way to the other end of the handles were it took about 40 seconds for the kite to land on the lake bed. After I pulled up my now full shorts, I put the kite away. If I would have had a 6m to 8m kite on those same lines I would have been out in the buggy.
Now that years have past and I have used longer lines with smaller kites and every type under the sun, in every configuration, I have figured it out. I am not saying I know everything as I am still learning by trial an error, I call it R&D.
I fly at a small park that has a little league baseball field surrounded by 70 foot christmas trees like most of the west coast. The turbulence in the field is the worst ever, untill I get the kite above the tree tops were it is very smooth. Not to tell you all to go do this, just saying deal with your pile of lemons and make lemonade.

bigkid - 10-12-2014 at 11:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RonH

Flying in gusty winds and long lines...

IMHO - That is a good way to get hurt.

short lines and a 2.4m in clean winds will break 19 ribs, with many of those with muliple breaks, puncture and collapse your left lung, and really ruin your next 3-4 years, but that just me. :smilegrin:

but you are right. You have to work into it, dont go from 20m lines to 100m lines because someone said you could. I fly with a long line setup for my pleasure and if someone wants to try it out I am there to teach them how. After that I get asked to let them use this or that when we meet up again. Best way to learn is by having someone teach you, in person.

bigkid - 10-12-2014 at 11:19 AM

If your wind is as bad as you say and as gusty as can be, you have to back up and rethinck things. I sell a lot of the buster soulfly kites to gusty areas in the centeral USA. Any idea why?
The combat is mostly sold on the west coast, why?
Most of the guys in buggies on the east coast fly depower and phantoms type kites, still asking why?
clean winds- race kites. High AR kites
turbulent/gusty winds- Beginner kites and depowers. Low AR kites
are you catching it?
Wind is ever changing but always the same. This is the part that requires common sense and the ability to say NO FLYING TODAY.

Bladerunner - 10-12-2014 at 05:58 PM

For zero wind nothing beats the indoor Rev's.

If you were looking for 2 to 10 you may not end up as disappointed?

I don't have any real experience with the Nasa Star kites but suspect a large one of those may be what you are after? They may start coming up second hand once the new version is out? Same with the Peak.

Ron is right about technique being a very important piece of the puzzle! :thumbup:

Never let your front lines go slack and gravity is your friend. Learn the downturn! :D

kitemaker4 - 10-12-2014 at 08:48 PM

From what I can gather the nasa star kites are powered up all the time. This concerns me flying in gusty winds. I always fly a nasa wing as a four line kite on handles. By flying this way you can control the power of the kite and if you need to you can back off the power.

Susan (npw goddess)

ssayre - 10-12-2014 at 09:10 PM

That is true, but I prefer them powered up. I buffer the gusts by turning upwind or downwind or at worst case hitting safety. I converted my 4 meter to handles for awhile and liked it but I prefer the bar for ease of use and sitting in a comfortable position. I may return to handles at some point because they are fun to fly in 4 line mode. Do you use a z bridle? Do you use a standard hook or some sort of qr and pulley?

kitemaker4 - 10-12-2014 at 09:21 PM

I do not use the z bridle. My harness has a roller.

Susan (npw goddess)

John Holgate - 10-12-2014 at 10:09 PM

Quote:

From what I can gather the nasa star kites are powered up all the time. This concerns me flying in gusty winds.

Depends on how you rig them up. The 'pro depower' bar has a very easy to engage depower/safety function - you can dump the power in an instant. I find the NS2's power up much slower than a foil (I assume this is true with the general nasa design) and give you a realistic chance to hit the safety!

You can rig them up on standard 4 line handles. Or the std bar which allows you to release onto the third depower/nose line.

kitemaker4 - 11-12-2014 at 08:12 AM

Thanks for the info.

Susan (npw goddess)

ssayre - 11-12-2014 at 03:23 PM

I've had a couple really wacky wind days where I could see active brake control coming in handy but most of the time I can manage very well at full power and like John says, the nasa's will give you enough time to hit the safety if need be. When I converted the 4 meter to handles I was not using the z bridle. I enjoyed balancing the breaks adding that extra dimension. Unfortunately, I'm lazy, so just give me the power straight up on the bar. :cool:

ssayre - 12-12-2014 at 09:52 AM

Quote:

Maybe my wind isn't as bad as I think it is

Don't sell yourself short Spencer. I've been to Atlanta and I think your wind is as janky as anywhere. My theory is gear is important but skill will trump gear nearly every time.

Edit: This was meant to be a compliment in that he is good at using his reactors in challenging conditions. Just wanted to clarify.

BeamerBob - 12-12-2014 at 09:57 AM

I used to live in Augusta GA and the wind there was not really so bad. Could Atlanta be that much worse?

I rode frequently at a public field behind a Kroger in Evans. OOBE field was a half hour away and while the wind wasn't perfect, we put some miles in for sure. And I had some good times at a soccer complex a few miles from home. At the time, was flying Blades and Reactors mainly. Eased into Montanas and a Phantom 15m.

ssayre - 12-12-2014 at 10:23 AM

I didn't mean to imply his Atlanta winds are worse than a lot of places but it just looks like his spots are accompanied by the usual downwind obstructions that are common inland. I have a few local spots where I live that on the same day, one spot is almost unusable and my premium spots work really well. Just to look at them you wouldn't necessarily think one spot would work significantly better.

BB, which kite did you like best when you were there?

soliver - 12-12-2014 at 11:58 AM

Meh... It's all defendant on season.... Is it gusty? Yes... But more full of lulls than gusts... It's really mostly lulls and direction changes... It can be pretty shifty at times ESP with the down wind obstructions. And rarely do I get out my "high wind" kites.

I feel like I really do pretty well with the Reactor II's because I really find their stability is strong in spite of their higher AR...

And yes BB... It's very similar to the wind at OOBE

Edit: Oooopsy... I meant upwind obstructions contributing to the shiftiness!!

BeamerBob - 12-12-2014 at 01:52 PM

I got along fine with my Blade, Beamers, Reactors, and the depowers. Like Soliver said, the biggest battle was due to the lulls. It was always such a treat to get to the beach and enjoy some smooth onshore winds.

BTW, I don't think I've ever had trouble with downwind obstructions. :cool:

rtz - 12-12-2014 at 10:02 PM

I was there everyday. Forecast was there everyday(the night before). The wind wasn't(didn't meet forecast).

Monday:

Tues, Wed, Thur were more of the same or even less.

Today though; the wind was enough:

Wind on the hand held meter reported wind drifting up and down from 2mph to 10mph.

Started out with the 5m Octane. Did fine downwind. Total struggle on the upwind return trip. Only road 1/2 mile and top speed of 12mph. Put that up and got out the 5.5 Reactor. Rode almost 3 more miles and top speed of 16 mph. Reactor never had wing tips folding in and never collapsed or bow tied. Plodded along at around 10mph most of the time.

Observations from the day:

Cloudy and light wind = No helmet and no sun glasses. Quite a change from the usual.

Light wind means easy conditions for packing up the kite. Unlike the usual.

Found light wind to be extremely exhausting. Could be the constant mental attention the kite constantly needs. I just find it to be very tiring and exhausting. I experience the same feeling on a 35-40mph wind day with a 1.7m kite.

A 20mph day is park and ride conditions. Ride around and ride anywhere just fine.

Now it's back to our usual and normal wind if we don't get rained out: