I can't seem to keep the wax on the bottom of my skis, after one 3 hour session my skis need wax again, at $50.00 a pop I am going to half to learn to
do this myself.
I am running on about 2 inches of crusty icy snow, last year with all the fresh snow I only needed to wax once. Is this typical with the crapy snow
condition or did I get a bad wax job? skimtwashington - 26-12-2014 at 09:23 PM
Not unusual to wear off wax in one day on HARD conditions.
$50...?
DIY tutorials on Youtube.
A cheap way or temporary fix till next Iron-on job for skis w/ worn off wax is quick apply pocket tins of hard wax and cork(no-iron, no scraping
off)... Reapply throughout day or if you feel dragging.B-Roc - 27-12-2014 at 07:07 AM
I'm assuming the $50 included some tuning/sharpening of edges.
Chrisz - 27-12-2014 at 08:51 AM
They sanded down he bottom of the ski's and waxed them, I dont think they sharpened them. It really seemed like a lot of money for a 15 minute job.
I use to do my own x-country skis, it is too bad I sold the equipment, looks like the same stuff for alpine skis. Any one wax at home? What waxes
do you use? I believe I was using swix, looks like you can get a kit for $100.00.erratic winds - 27-12-2014 at 10:08 AM
If they didn't sharpen your edges you got ripped off, in my opinion.
I wax my snowboard at home most of the time. I use an all season all temp wax with a horrible horrible name. "Choad Cheese".
Doing your skis at home is the best way to get them tuned the way you want, for expected snow conditions/temps.
I would say our expert on tuning skis would be Feyd! As he has to tune them to death to get the performance he wants out of them, do hit him up for
advice if he doesn't pop in here with advice.
The swix kit includes everything you need besides a thrift store iron, at $100 it's a deal as parting out components could easily cost you that much.Feyd - 27-12-2014 at 12:04 PM
I agree with the above. I think you're getting taken advantage of by the shop doing your tunes. I say this not knowing exactly what they did but I
agree, it doesn't sound right.
Wax from your XC skis can be used but it depends on the type of XC skis you used to use. If your wax was kick wax in the kick pocket of the ski, you
don't want to put that on your kite skis. If your XC skis have scales, then you were using glide wax.
Glide wax is what you want.
If they are only taking 15minutes to wax your skis and charging you $50, I'd stop going there for tunes. 15 minutes isn't enough time for a proper
hot wax so they must be buff waxing which is simply a surface wax.You need to hot wax you skis for any long term glide. Hot waxing will get the waxed
absorbed into the base, into the carbon sint, and allow for the wax to be in place and slowly release it as the wax wears away. The longer you let the
wax sit on the ski before scraping it, the more absorption you will get (although the rate levels out if not hot boxed)
Buff waxes on snow kite skis are a waste of time. You burn way more wax on a kite than you will ever burn on a ski hill.
Cera F, as B-Roc suggested, is made solely to allow you to haul ass. Costs more than cocaine sure but if you want performance, pure flouro will give
it to you. Unfortunately so few people know how to apply it. It's not an all day application, it's short term for high performance. The guys who
race in WISSA, the really obsessive guys with deep pockets, will apply Cera F between heats. Which is what it's made for but man you can get really
close to that performance with a lot more affordable stuff.
Some people would suggest a rub on wax like F-4 or something of that flavor. Again, short term solution and on a kite it's gone literally in minutes
depending on the surface.
Something that is often over looked and is as important as wax IMO is base grinding with the right structure. Bases have very small grooves cut into
them. These grooves break surface tension and channel water that you encounter when you move. After all that's why we glide, it's on a layer of
water on the snow. If the structure is too tight, the bases won't channel water effectively and cause you to stick. If the base is structured too
wide, especially in a crosshatch pattern, the base will be too directional (depending on your needs) or be slow and draggy.
Ski tuning is a highly technical skill if you want a tune that gives the best performance. But any level of tuning ability will benefit a ski better
than nothing at all. There's a lot of bad information on youtube in regards to tuning and especially with today's skis it's really easy to damage a
ski. Delaminations due to over heating is probably the number 1 cause of tuner induced ski death these days. :o It takes very little to go from
"just warm enough" for optimal wax absorption to "soften the epoxies and the base bubbles and the tips delam". Just something to be mindful of. Chrisz - 27-12-2014 at 03:39 PM
I am not looking to brake any speed records, I am looking to keep my skis fron sticking when the weather gets warm. I think I'll shop around and get
a wax kit, not only is it costing $50.00 to get a wax job it is a hour trip to town to drop off the skis and another hour trip to pick them up.
Anyone got a good video for waxing skis? I could probably pretty easily build a hot box that is therostaticly controled, what temperature do you run
the hot box at and for how long?
The ice fishermen have been running trucks all over the lake and droping sand and salt off their vehicles, we really need some snow here. 8 inches of
snow will put a stop to the veichles on the lake and save on the ware and tear on my skis.
The only up side to the Ice fisherman is they plow roads that make excellent jumps:DFeyd - 27-12-2014 at 06:08 PM
Wait, the ice fishermen are sanding the lake? WTH? Well, if the shop did sharpen your edges, one pass through the sand will roll the edge over.
Although I agree with the nice road gaps they plow.
Take a look at the BC.Com site on their tuning tips. Super basic instruction for general ski tuning purposes. There are a few things that some
tuners, myself included may not agree with in the content but by and large it's pretty good.
Not fully detailed but good quick straightforward tutorials that have a good 'tone'.
Surprises:
'...wax and scrape , repeat several times...and up to 7-10 times for a new or just stoneground ski...':o
Wait.. now do 'FINAL performance wax' and scrape...!
Tools needed are not cheap
Waxing Iron.....................................$50- 75+
Brushes(3) wire, nylon, and h-hair.......$40-150
Edge file..........................................$50-75
ski vises...........................................$125+
diamond file .....................................$22-26
Scraper,file,gummy stone, edge grinder$5-13 each
(.....not including wax...$5 -$175)
:o:o:o:o:oChrisz - 28-12-2014 at 12:15 AM
The ice fishermen are not sanding the lake intentionally, the road salt and sand is just falling off their vehicles on to the ice. I stay away from
those areas and only ski across fresh virgin snow.
Even a couple hundred bucks in wax would pay for it's self in one season, its only money... kinda of silly woring about trying to save money at this
point. lets see new ski equipment, helmet, kites, harness I think I am into this for about $5,500 or so and I'm not done yet. I am still thinking of
getting my other half a buggy he can use on the lake, his knees aren't the best, he doesn't want to try skis.
There is another ski shop in town I think I will give them a try and see what they will charge. What the videos show looks pritty much the same as
applying the glide wax to x-country skis, pritty easy. A wax kit is going to be my next purchase. Chrisz - 28-12-2014 at 01:37 AM
Is there any reason I would need to get the more expensive ski clamps? It appears they both go to 90mm wide
The quality of the vices varies little within the Swix series until you get into shop quality level. What you gain below that level from the econo to
super is mostly adjustable supports. Which can really be done with the economy versions with shims.
The Supers open up to at least 150mm so you can accommodate the midsection of a powder ski if needed. But this said the vice part can be clamped to
the ski side wall but if needed can be used to grab the binding or it's lifter so the extra width is really mandatory. The vice acts as a center
support as much as something that holds the ski down. Really any level of vice will make tuning easier.
Walk into any thrift shop and buy an iron for under $5, it will get the job done, maybe not professional quality but I think only one or two people on
the board should be considered "professional"!
I have been using the same iron for 20 years, and my father used it for 20 years before me.....Chrisz - 28-12-2014 at 08:09 PM
The iron I had used in the past was actually for puting on monokote on rc air planes, I would like to stick to something that was actually made for
skis with a temp setting.
The clamps look similar to thes swix, I dont really need the edge tuning stuff but pricing out everything separately was comming out more expensive.
The wax will work but I usually ski in much colder temps 20° F to -15°F there doesn't seem to be a wax for that. erratic winds - 28-12-2014 at 08:38 PM
Oooh despite having nearly all those tools separately I do love the idea of all new kit....that looks very nice indeed. Seems to satisfy your need
nearly perfectly.Feyd - 29-12-2014 at 06:09 AM
EW is right. that kit has enough stuff to handle most any of your tuning needs and you will need the edge tuning stuff if you get out a lot or if the
surfaces get hard.
The wax they supply is for a good universal temp range but I agree you'll need to get something that fits your specific temp. Something flouro even.
Swix makes F-4 in bricks and they make for a good uni-wax in a broad range. B-Roc - 29-12-2014 at 07:49 AM
Nice kit but you may need some more DMT files. DMT blue is coarse. I can't tell if the edging tool has a mill bastard file in it already (extra
coarse). If that's the case you may be OK but if it only comes with the blue you'll need a bit of elbow grease to get started.Feyd - 29-12-2014 at 11:46 AM
My guess it's coarse one side, fine the other. Good for basic tuning but not for high end finish work and slightly more reliable than simple tape
wraps on the tang. Although good hand tuners do amazing work that way. Chrisz - 29-12-2014 at 08:10 PM
Do you really need the base prep wax? Does the base prep wax absorb differently or is it just a way to save on the more expencive glide wax?Feyd - 29-12-2014 at 08:31 PM
Depends. Honestly, not every time. The base prep wax is scraped while warm and it draws contaminants out of the ski base and gives you a clean base
to apply whatever running wax you need. It does improve the performance but for the most part most people, myself included, rarely do a base clean
wax more than once a season unless they are racing. Chrisz - 30-12-2014 at 09:14 AM
So how do I figure out the degrees for the side and base edge tuning for my skis? I am using 2012/2013 Scott Lunas, I would guess they would be the
same as a 2014 ski.
I found some info that said 3° side edge and 1°base edge, not sure if that is right.
Glad to hear you are getting into the art of tuning. The effort will definitely be rewarded by the way your skis work. It takes 30-40 minutes to do a
really good job, but it's good exercise...haha
There is a supplier of tuning equipment called "Tognar". They are out in Oregon. I order wax and other basic supplies from them. They have just about
every sort of tool imaginable. To determine your edge bevels you can contact the manufacturer, however if someone has tuned your skis they may have
altered all of those angles. You can get a measurement tool from Tognar and get proper file guides to help maintain the proper edge.
I put a base prep wax on my skis before the beginning of the season, and depending on how many sessions I put on the skis I might do a mid season base
wax...otherwise I use an all purpose wax for my every day tuning. To do a good job you need a decent iron, scrapers, sidewall planer, good files,
diamond stone, gummy stone, some brushes (nylon and copper).
If you talk to the guys at Tognar the are very helpful and can advise you based on your budget. http://www.tognar.com/
I made my own "ski vices" out of some leftover plastic decking boards. I clamp them to a table with c-clamps. I can show you a picture if you want.
B-Roc - 30-12-2014 at 03:09 PM
That ski is listed as an intermediate, all-mountain ski. I didn't see anywhere in that link where it said a 3^ angle was necessary. Typically
speaking, unless you are racing, a 2^ edge and 1^ base angle will be fine.Feyd - 31-12-2014 at 05:06 PM
Scott specs for their skis are .5-.8 side and 1 base. Really a 1and 1 will suit most ski makes and skier demands. But all skis can have their edge
angles altered for specific tastes or use. Soft snow, 1x1 while boiler plate requires 2+ x 0-1.
Many of today's skis are 2 side 1 base. And most consumer tuning tools like the one in the kit you were looking at are adjustable 0-4 degree. Chrisz - 1-1-2015 at 08:34 AM
I went down to the other ski shop in town early this week they showed be how to wax my skis, gave me suggestions on wax type's and put my skis in
their hot box at no charge. They suggested to not scrape and buff the bases just use them and let the snow polish them. Those skis where like grease
lighting after 10 minutes of use, best wax job I have ever had, and there is still wax on the bottom.
I picked up all the wax supplies from those guys down at the ski shop, of course they could not match the internet price, I ended up droping $300.00,
I got 3 of the Swix brick size waxes, iron, clamps scrapers and a set of 3 brushes.
They where out of the edging tools but they suggested gettingthe beast tools preferably something in a metal tool versus plastic tool. They also
suggested to stay away from the multi angle tools and get a dedicated side and base tool, 2 side and 1 base like you all are suggesting.4w7s - 1-1-2015 at 06:32 PM
I dunno about not scraping?
Also one of the other important concepts of a good wax job/base prep is to have some "structure" which is especially important in wet sticky snow
conditions.
I would thing that excessive wax (inadequate scraping or no scraping) will allow the bases to pick up contaminants and make the wax slow. and if you
just wax over all of this you probably will introduce some contaminants to the new wax being applied.
Not scraping may be an improvement over no waxing or prep at all, but this advice seems a bit unorthodox to me. but hey, if it works for you...Feyd - 1-1-2015 at 07:13 PM
I agree, scrape the excess.
You're missing a critical component to the tune process finish sequence. Brushing. BRUSH THE HELL OUT OF THEM. There should be no wax visible on the
base. NONE.
The wax that has been absorbed into the carbon sint on the base is the wax that counts. The excess wax is excess drag. Brushing the bases clears out
the structure. The structure is what channels the water layer that allows you to glide. You don't brush, you don't channel. The ski base structure
that $w&s is referring to is important for wet conditions but is equally important for dry and hard, The Structure is adjusted to the conditions
at hand. We even do left and right biased structures. Yes the structure can affect the way a ski turns.
As mentioned, a coarse structure would be what you would use in wet conditions. A wet structure can be so coarse you can hear it as you run your nails
across it. But that structure is for moving large quantities of water and if the snow is dry or hard, a coarse structure will cause drag. A finer
structure would be used for colder or harder conditions and can be so fine it's not even hardly visible.
Chrisz - 2-1-2015 at 07:54 AM
I got them all scraped and cleaned off, I put on a colder wax this time LF4 I will not see much above single digit temps for the rest of the year. I
think it is funney the rest of the world thinks 18 to 7 degrees is cold weather.
They look nice on bottom like they are suppose to be, and you can clearly see the the structure in the ski now. It has taken a lot of waxing to get
the skis to look and feel like they are suppose to, the more wax I put on and take off the longer the wax seems to be holding up on the skis.
I am guessing I was not waxing them often enough. I did think it was odd they told me to just leave all that wax on there!
When do you want to use a HF verses LF and a CH? The ski shop told me wet snow HF and dry anow LF...B-Roc - 2-1-2015 at 11:38 AM
Just get yourself a general purpose wax and don't worry too much about this. I agree with everything Feyd wrote but the reality is, you are kite
skiing and not shaving 100s of a second off a clock in the super G. Protect your bases, sharpen your edges and don't overthink slight changes in temp
or surface condition. Any wax is better than none in most cases and unless your kiting on wonderfully maintained blue cruisers, conditions on a lake
or field are going to change constantly.
I'm sure you and the ski shop did a great job. Now get out there and use those boards and stop over thinking things.Feyd - 2-1-2015 at 08:16 PM
Well said. :DCheddarhead - 4-1-2015 at 04:43 PM
How do you guys treat your bases before stashing your skis away for the summer? I hear the term "storage wax" often and wonder what this is referring
to.Feyd - 4-1-2015 at 06:00 PM
Storage wax can be good wax or cheap wax. Essentially you're using it to protect the bases from oxidation and the edges from corrosion. If you apply
a storage wax that is the right temp for the early season then all you have to do at the beginning of the season is scrape, brush and ride. If you
use a basic cleaning wax you would remove that wax and then wax with the appropriate temp.
Another thing about waxing, one issue we see a lot of, especially in really hard snow or ice conditions is loss of base material at the edges. To
combat this we use and an extreme cold wax to harden the base. Extreme cold wax is very hard and when the wax gets absorbed into the carbon sint of
the base and cools it reinforces the base material. Apply the wax, hot box it, scrape off the excess and apply the flavor of the day on top of it.
(this is also a handy trick we used to use to avoid core shots when skiing back country.)
